Proposal: Trouba Mega thread Part V

[Dijock94]

According to the CBA....we do

No. You don't. There is nothing in the CBA that states he has to play. You can block him from playing in the NHL sure but you can't force him to play for your team.

 

[Gotta Jet]

Put yourself in his shoes. He may really hate it in Winnepeg and be miserable. The Jets don't own him, and he doesn't owe them anything.

This is the problem....this is one guy. What if next year there is 10.

 

[Gotta Jet]

No. You don't. There is nothing in the CBA that states he has to play. You can block him from playing in the NHL sure but you can't force him to play for your team.

No but he will not be able to earn a living in North America playing hockey unless he plays for your team or gets traded until he is a UFA. That is the life of a pro athlete.

 

[GoJetsGo55]

No. You don't. There is nothing in the CBA that states he has to play. You can block him from playing in the NHL sure but you can't force him to play for your team.

See people keep ****ing up the verbiage.

He is a Winnipeg Jets asset.

No I can't make him wash my car.

But his rights are OWNED by the Winnipeg Jets.

 

[Dijock94]

He does not have to play for the Winnepeg Jets, end of story.

 

[GoJetsGo55]

He does not have to play for the Winnepeg Jets, end of story.

He doesn't play for ANYONE in the NHL until the Winnipeg Jets say so.

*until he turns 27*

 

[GoJetsGo55]

So....if I understand correctly.....he's a slave who can play for whoever he wants and owes the Jets nothing.

I think signals are getting crossed here.

 

[4thline]

There is logic and there is emotion.

It's very easy to be on the outside looking in and view it from a logical point of view.

Then...it's your player. The guy who everyone loved and was touted to be the biggest baddest d-man since Buff. Then he starts making demands under a smoke screen. Then the smoke screen is gone and all of a sudden the dude doesn't even want to be in the country you love.

Then.....then you start to think....."let him rot."

Fair enough.

And your point is? You can try to twist it any way you want; however, in the end if Trouba wants to play in the NHL he will need to deal with the Jets. They own his rights and that will not change until they trade his rights or he hits 27.

Direct point: see discussion with GoJets about emotional reactions
Indirect point: see below, broader discussion about the fairness of the mechanisms in the CBA that have led to this issue, rather than going around in circles about trade offers and conjecture. IMO RFA status is broken and has no meaning. Players are backed into a corner with the "elusion" of RFA status. That the NHL and NFL PA have accepted the two pronged restriction for 6-7 years of their career baffles me, and I wonder if this is the first sign of a justified pushback.

If Winnipeg caves to Trouba's demand of playing where he wants, this does not bode well for any team in any sport. There is a reason why CBA's exist. There is a reason why contracts exist. You cannot allow players to circumvent the system otherwise this will create major problems for all franchises. I am sure the Jets organization has the support of the NHL and all the other owners who wouldn't want to see a stream of young punks digging their heals in every time they want to go home to play. You want to play in the big leagues, you'd better be prepared to play to the best of your abilities in the market that selected you until such time that you are free to go elsewhere. It is that simple.

 

[SabresSharks]

I've always liked Trouba, and think he's still got plenty of upside, but as his holdout drags on, it's soured me on him.

I dislike players who think they're bigger than the sport that provides them riches, fame, and and an envious lifestyle, for playing a kids' game - Elway, Lindros, Eli - "waaaah, but I don't want to play there, waaaah". Trouba isn't anywhere close to belonging in that list. Screw them and screw him.

 

[Thai jet*]

Union Shop

What is idiotic about that statement? Am I wrong? Is he obligated to work for the Winnepeg Jets?

no, only if he wants to play in the union shop controlled by the NHL until he reaches 27 years of age. He can certainly play in non-NHLPA leagues like his neighbourhood beer league or one of the euro leagues.

 

[aj8000]

Put yourself in his shoes. He may really hate it in Winnepeg and be miserable. The Jets don't own him, and he doesn't owe them anything.

You are correct they do not own him; however, they own his rights to play in the NHL. If he wants to continue his career in the NHL, he will eventually have to do it on the Jets terms.

 

[lomiller1]

Hmm, what exactly is -- not -- a position of need for Winnipeg?

This is somewhat how I would rank them:

Between the pipes -- 30

LD- 25-30? Enström is getting older and is past his prime, Morrisey is ok as a youngster, but that left side is just weak...

RD- 20-25? Mobility must be a huge concern given the speed we are seeing in this league right now. If the LDs could make up for it, it would be one thing, but the balance is far from great at this point.

LW- Kind of meaningless to rank considering the potential is great, and no need for upgrades. OTOH, Connor looks a little weak for the NHL so far, a bit of a tweaner, even if he improves, is he really a good fit behind Laine and Ehlers?

C- 8-14?

RW- 25-30? //Wheeler can make fantastic plays, but not much of a factor overall. Or like, very good player, but not great. After him the RW depth chart must be the weakest in the league or among the weakest at least.

The Farm
There are a good number of B-C tier prospects on the farm (not looking at the kids in the NHL), but I just don't know. It doesn't feel like they will get any immediate substantial help from the farm the coming years, or am I missing someone? All the while, Winnipeg is currently build on a core that is getting up there in age. Wheeler, Enström, Buff and co. As kids come in, these guys will get worse. Or what do you think? Do you think I am mis-rating any area of Winnipeg's roster or farm?

From my point of view, Winnipeg basically need help all over. Even at center, not overly sold on Little/Perrault as 2-3 centers on a contender. Scheleife is great, but is he the next Backes or the next Toews if you get what I mean? And like, its really really really tough in this league to go from being on the outside looking in to becoming a contender. The great teams has so many advantages to start with, being able to give kids a good environment etc that Winnipeg and the likes never have been able to do. Like there is a reason for why that franchise never even have had an OK season in this league.

This post leaves the impression you don’t even watch hockey. You certainly don’t seem to know anything about any of these players. It’s basically a gish gallop of errors. I won’t bother to address them all but to hit a couple highlights.


Buff and Myers aren’t mobile? (yes they are) Little isn’t even a second line C? (he’s still a top 30 C in the NHL) No RW after Wheeler ?(Ehlers plays both but prefers RW, Armia, Dano, Stafford, Dano plays both wings) only B & C prospects (Every publication that follows prospects noted the Jets pool is VERY deep)

 

[Thai jet*]

A radio guy here says his girlfriend wants to go to a USA med school. It may all just be about him being *****-whipped.

 

[TOGuy14]

Heard them talking this morning on either TSN or Sportsnet that some Canadian teams were kicking the tires on trading for Trouba but the word was he had no interest in playing in Canada and was looking to play in south of the border only.

 

[Dijock94]

I never said he was going to play in the NHL. Someone before me literally said they own him and my response was that they don't, because he doesn't have to play for them. I never said he could play in the NHL

 

[aj8000]

Indirect point: see below, broader discussion about the fairness of the mechanisms in the CBA that have led to this issue, rather than going around in circles about trade offers and conjecture. IMO RFA status is broken and has no meaning. Players are backed into a corner with the "elusion" of RFA status. That the NHL and NFL PA have accepted the two pronged restriction for 6-7 years of their career baffles me, and I wonder if this is the first sign of a justified pushback.

It may or may not be broken. In the end it does not matter since that is the CBA that the players signed. Unfortunately, your arguments are better suited for a different thread regarding the CBA and not here.

 

[aj8000]

He does not have to play for the Winnepeg Jets, end of story.

You lose the argument automatically if you cannot spell Winnipeg correctly

 

[Jeti]

Put yourself in his shoes. He may really hate it in Winnepeg and be miserable. The Jets don't own him, and he doesn't owe them anything.

Put yourself in the GM's shoes. You understand players are people with lives outside of the rink, which means sometimes they'll feel the need to request a trade, but your job is to do what's best for a billion-dollar business and the 22 other guys on the roster, not just the one.

It's a "help me to help you" situation. If Trouba wants a trade, he makes it easier for Chevy to trade him by showing up and continuing to play. Holding out as an RFA demanding a trade is just cutting off your nose to spite your face. Trouba hurt himself more than anyone else by bringing the situation to this. He's legally within his rights, but he's also incredibly stupid.

The "he didn't do anything wrong" posters here are thinking about this the way a child would. Sometimes what's in your best interest is going along with someone else's so they can help you. He's being short-sighted and now risks losing a year.

 

[lomiller1]

He does not have to play for the Winnepeg Jets, end of story.

Only true in the trivial sense that he doesn't have to play hockey at all. If he wants to play in the NHL he DOES have to play for the Winnipeg Jets.

 

[Dijock94]

Why would he sign and play? To hope he gets traded? Then the jets can easily do what Tampa did with drouin and just refuse to trade him. The only leverage Trouba has to force a trade is to holdout.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Heard them talking this morning on either TSN or Sportsnet that some Canadian teams were kicking the tires on trading for Trouba but the word was he had no interest in playing in Canada and was looking to play in south of the border only.

Yep i think both Dreger and McKenzie were saying the exact same thing.

 

[Maukkis]

Why would he sign and play? To hope he gets traded? Then the jets can easily do what Tampa did with drouin and just refuse to trade him. The only leverage Trouba has to force a trade is to holdout.

How can Trouba gain leverage in his current position?

Answer that question correctly, and you'll see what he meant.

 

[aj8000]

I never said he was going to play in the NHL. Someone before me literally said they own him and my response was that they don't, because he doesn't have to play for them. I never said he could play in the NHL

Think about it, he does not want to play in Canada but he will go play in Europe instead. What exactly is point of making your assertion. It has been said many times he can go to Europe or the KHL. If that is what he really wants to do fine. But until he realizes that he is bound by the CBA, it could be a while before he plays in the NHL again.

 

[Thai jet*]

Yup

I never said he was going to play in the NHL. Someone before me literally said they own him and my response was that they don't, because he doesn't have to play for them. I never said he could play in the NHL

That is true

 

[supersonic jet]

You're 100% right, RFA status is a complete paper tiger and players are getting bent over. Like I said it's overkill. One or the other would be fine, but as it is now it basically only keeps GM's from completely lowballing league wide.



None of that means that he has any sort of committment, legally, morally, whatever. It means they have the right to restrict his movement against his will or be compensated for it.


And depends. Take out compensation but leave right of first refusal, team keeps the player that they drafted and want but at a fair price dictated by the open market.

Take out RFR but leave compensation and teams don't lose players for nothing and second contracts stay artificially depressed.

Having both is letting the teams have their cake and eat it too, RFA's are "free" in name only.

But this is really a whole different discussion, I just take issue with the whole "he owes us/ committment/ let him rot" character assassination. Sure it sucks for your team now but I imagine there were a lot of similar reactions when players started fighting for any sort of Free agent rights.

Poor players have guaranteed contracts and when they can't do their job they still get paid. Not like NFL, how many contract bought out because player is not good enough anymore.

He should sign contract at what the market says he worth and play in good faith that Chevy will try to sign him. By summer a lot of teams could be in a better situation.