Proposal: Trouba Mega thread Part V

[haveandare]

Mike Peca was the last player to sit out a full year. He was dealt for a 20 year old 5th overall pick coming off a 0.5 PPG season, and a 20 year old 6'4" 8th overall pick. It didn't seem to hurt Peca's value.


Chevy will do whats best for the Jets, contrary to your opinion.

Dougie Hamilton just refused to sign as an RFA and got traded. We're not just talking about sitting out a year, we're talking about players finding ways off of teams they don't want to be on before UFA. It was said this would set a precedent but it wouldn't, this has happened many times before in less dramatic and drawn out fashion.

What's best for the Jets is to get the best deal they can before December 1st. It takes some serious mental gymnastics to look at it any other way IMO. And I'm not saying the NYR deal I proposed is the best they could get. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but they should take the best they can get before December 1st or they'll be making this problem and their problem attracting players way worse.

 

[cobra427]

I'll take the bait and offer a reply. The party diminishing the value of the asset is the RFA that refused to negotiate a contract and demanded a trade despite that the team holds his rights for four more seasons.

The team appears to not be immediately caving to the demands of a player that holds minimal rights at best.



I'd conversely hope that Chevy would laugh at that offer and will instead hold out for a return that replaces Trouba's value in their D-core versus accepting a massive downgrade at D and a forward that they don't need. They don't want picks and prospects; they want full compensation for the loss via an NHL player of equivalent experience, talent, and age. Don't like it? Too bad. The GM has the full support of the ownership and those are the parties that matter.

Chevy is dreaming if he thinks he will get a top 4D of similar value/age/experience straight up for Trouba. Name this player that is available? He doesn't exist. Chevy is trapped and will have to take the best available deal between here and December 1st, if he is smart, and I think he is a smart GM. That will be best for the Jets short term and long term when you play out all likely scenarios.

 

[lanceuppercut75]

Chevy is dreaming if he thinks he will get a top 4D of similar value/age/experience straight up for Trouba. Name this player that is available? He doesn't exist.

Dougie Hamilton MIGHT be available for Trouba. Not necessarily 1 for 1. Or he might not. Jets want a LHD though so the trade won't happen. But saying "the player doesn't exist" is inaccurate IMO.

1 year older with 1 more year of experience.

 

[Gump Hasek]

Chevy is dreaming if he thinks he will get a top 4D of similar value/age/experience straight up for Trouba. Name this player that is available? He doesn't exist. Chevy is trapped and will have to take the best available deal between here and December 1st, if he is smart, and I think he is a smart GM. That will be best for the Jets short term and long term when you play out all likely scenarios.

You post as if Trouba exists within a vacuum. He doesn't. It isn't solely a scenario of trading Trouba in exchange for a downgrade, period.

A more likely scenario is that Chevy eventually trades him as part of a multi-asset deal in exchange for an upgrade, or that he lets him sit out for a year.

 

[haveandare]

You post as if Trouba exists within a vacuum. He doesn't. It isn't solely a scenario of trading Trouba in exchange for a downgrade, period.

A more likely scenario is that Chevy eventually trades him as part of a multi-asset deal in exchange for an upgrade, or that he lets him sit out for a year.

His value will take a gigantic hit if he sits out of high level hockey for a year at his age.

 

[Gump Hasek]

His value will take a gigantic hit if he sits out of high level hockey for a year at his age.

Such is life. The Jets have been building very efficiently via the draft for the past 5 seasons and are becoming deeper by the year (ex Trouba) regardless. The player is the one forcing the issue sans holding any cards, not the team. If he sits, he sits.

 

[lomiller1]

Chevy is dreaming if he thinks he will get a top 4D of similar value/age/experience straight up for Trouba.

The just wait until Trouba is forced to sign.

Chevy is trapped and will have to take the best available deal between here and December 1st.

Even in the very unlikely event Trouba chooses to sit the whole year the Jets SILL control his rights for 4 more years. He’d have to sit for 2 full years before the Jets actually lose anything.

 

[cneely]

His value will take a gigantic hit if he sits out of high level hockey for a year at his age.

You've tried to make this argument twice.

Again, the last player to sit out a year was Mike Peca, and he was dealt for 2 recent top 10 picks. Sitting out didn't seem to hurt his value at all.

Last year Drouin sat out most of the year. Did you see his value diminish?

 

[haveandare]

You've tried to make this argument twice.

Again, the last player to sit out a year was Mike Peca, and he was dealt for 2 recent top 10 picks. Sitting out didn't seem to hurt his value at all.

Last year Drouin sat out most of the year. Did you see his value diminish?

Did you see Drouin get traded?

Mike Peca was traded 15 years ago... the league has changed in a huge number of ways since then. And I wouldn't say that deal was great for either side.

 

[135ace]

Would a trade with NJ's 2017 1st (not protected) to Minny for Scandella/Brodin. And a sweetener.
Minny has no 2nd this year and are tight to cap
And then that D man to Winny with maybe an add

The other scenario close to Hamilton is NJs 2017 1st, and 2 2nds

Jersey has spot for Trouba to be #1, unless severson goes nuts this year, has the money to cover it, is a need

I would make those trades, but the problem is that Jets fans seem to think Trouba would be worth a package of NJ's 2017 1st + Zacha. That's just not going to happen.

 

[aj8000]

Did you see Drouin get traded?

Exactly, and you expect that Trouba will be traded?

 

[Maukkis]

I would make those trades, but the problem is that Jets fans seem to think Trouba would be worth a package of NJ's 2017 1st + Zacha. That's just not going to happen.

NJ doesn't have a defenseman who fits the bill. Severson hasn't proven much and Greene is too old. That's the problem here.

 

[135ace]

Exactly, and you expect that Trouba will be traded?

It's a very different situation. Drouin's stock would have plummeted had he sat out. He was risking a lot of money and development by sitting out. Trouba is a much more proven commodity than Drouin was, and sitting out won't hurt him as much.

 

[135ace]

NJ doesn't have a defenseman who fits the bill. Severson hasn't proven much and Greene is too old. That's the problem here.

Therein lies the problem...but I don't see many teams doing the Jets a favor and swapping a young LHD for Trouba. So essentially either Trouba caves and signs with the Jets or they cave and trade him for something like draft picks.

Winnipeg can't expect to get fair value when they're demanding something that only a handful of teams can give them...they're automatically cutting the market from a dozen or more interested teams to 2 or 3. Less demand will equal a weaker return.

 

[aj8000]

but they should take the best they can get before December 1st or they'll be making this problem and their problem attracting players way worse.

Well everyone is welcome to their opinion, I just happen to disagree with yours and feel that they do not have to rush it.

There will always be players who do not want to play for a particular team for whatever reason; however, most players want to play hockey and will go to the team that actually is willing to pay them millions to play in the end. Winnipeg may not be the first choice for some players; however, if they have the best offer, they will likely sign.

 

[Trapper]

It's a very different situation. Drouin's stock would have plummeted had he sat out. He was risking a lot of money and development by sitting out. Trouba is a much more proven commodity than Drouin was, and sitting out won't hurt him as much.

Seems like the best thing Trouba could do is come back, play well and still let it be known that he wants to be traded. Work out the appropriate deal money wise and then play. This way other teams will know his salary and scout him at the same time. His agent can work with Winnipeg management to facilitate this trade.

 

[aj8000]

It's a very different situation. Drouin's stock would have plummeted had he sat out. He was risking a lot of money and development by sitting out. Trouba is a much more proven commodity than Drouin was, and sitting out won't hurt him as much.

And your point is? Trouba will eventually sign with the Jets, it is the only way he has a chance of getting traded away from Winnipeg.

 

[Smitty426]

Would a trade with NJ's 2017 1st (not protected) to Minny for Scandella/Brodin. And a sweetener.
Minny has no 2nd this year and are tight to cap
And then that D man to Winny with maybe an add

The other scenario close to Hamilton is NJs 2017 1st, and 2 2nds

Jersey has spot for Trouba to be #1, unless severson goes nuts this year, has the money to cover it, is a need

NJ doesn't have a defenseman who fits the bill. Severson hasn't proven much and Greene is too old. That's the problem here.

Huh I never said that in my post look up!

Therein lies the problem...but I don't see many teams doing the Jets a favor and swapping a young LHD for Trouba. So essentially either Trouba caves and signs with the Jets or they cave and trade him for something like draft picks.

Winnipeg can't expect to get fair value when they're demanding something that only a handful of teams can give them...they're automatically cutting the market from a dozen or more interested teams to 2 or 3. Less demand will equal a weaker return.

Again look at the post above, red, bold italic underlined!

 

[Maukkis]

Therein lies the problem...but I don't see many teams doing the Jets a favor and swapping a young LHD for Trouba. So essentially either Trouba caves and signs with the Jets or they cave and trade him for something like draft picks.

Winnipeg can't expect to get fair value when they're demanding something that only a handful of teams can give them...they're automatically cutting the market from a dozen or more interested teams to 2 or 3. Less demand will equal a weaker return.

That's why I've wanted a trade including a decent defenseman and some of our forward prospects to happen. That would be much easier to pull off, and would allow more flexibility when it comes to trading Trouba. I'd be disappointed if those options haven't been explored already, but I'd guess Chevy has been looking for a fix for a while now.

 

[aj8000]

Therein lies the problem...but I don't see many teams doing the Jets a favor and swapping a young LHD for Trouba. So essentially either Trouba caves and signs with the Jets or they cave and trade him for something like draft picks.

Winnipeg can't expect to get fair value when they're demanding something that only a handful of teams can give them...they're automatically cutting the market from a dozen or more interested teams to 2 or 3. Less demand will equal a weaker return.

And other teams cannot expect to get him at a discount. There is no incentive for the Jets to lower their ask. They will continue for the short term without him and wait for him to sign, if he decides to sit for a year, we will cross that bridge at that time.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Haven't read the entire thread so my oligopolies if anyone already posted this. I actually believe the Pens and Jets are logical partners. Here's why I think so...

Jets have Trouba and for some reason can't re-sign him or he doesn't want to re-sign and play in Winnipeg. He's a 9th overall draft pick, has size and many teams would love to have him. Do the Jets want to trade him? Well if the price is right they have to at this stage IMO. Jets can also use a upgrade in net too!

Penguins are currently $4.5M over the cap and need to address this very soon! They have two goalies and it's no secrete they are trying to trade Fleury. Fleury has a M-NTC and a NMC which means if they don't trade him, they are forced to protect him in the upcoming expansion draft and lose Murray no doubt.

Trade #1 (what the Pens would like): Fleury & 2-1st round picks for Trouba. Jets get an upgrade in net and two 1st round picks to go with the young group they already have. Pens pay a big price in two 1st round picks but get a very good young D man in return (Pens may have to give up more IMO though). This allows the Pens to fit under the cap as well!

Trade #2 (what the Jets would like): Murray, Kunitz, & 1st round pick for Trouba. Jets get a very good young goalie and a 1st round pick. Kunitz is just a throw in so Pens can get closer to the Cap. Pens get Trouba. Enough said.

I believe the Pens are the more desperate team so they may have to over pay to 1) Fit under the cap and 2) Figure out how to get around the Expansion draft and the NMC issue. If I'm the Pens, Id ask the Jets what it takes for them to take Fleury and make it happen!

 

[GoJetsGo55]

Haven't read the entire thread so my oligopolies if anyone already posted this. I actually believe the Pens and Jets are logical partners. Here's why I think so...

Jets have Trouba and for some reason can't re-sign him or he doesn't want to re-sign and play in Winnipeg. He's a 9th overall draft pick, has size and many teams would love to have him. Do the Jets want to trade him? Well if the price is right they have to at this stage IMO. Jets can also use a upgrade in net too!

Penguins are currently $4.5M over the cap and need to address this very soon! They have two goalies and it's no secrete they are trying to trade Fleury. Fleury has a M-NTC and a NMC which means if they don't trade him, they are forced to protect him in the upcoming expansion draft and lose Murray no doubt.

Trade #1 (what the Pens would like): Fleury & 2-1st round picks for Trouba. Jets get an upgrade in net and two 1st round picks to go with the young group they already have. Pens pay a big price in two 1st round picks but get a very good young D man in return (Pens may have to give up more IMO though). This allows the Pens to fit under the cap as well!

Trade #2 (what the Jets would like): Murray, Kunitz, & 1st round pick for Trouba. Jets get a very good young goalie and a 1st round pick. Kunitz is just a throw in so Pens can get closer to the Cap. Pens get Trouba. Enough said.

I believe the Pens are the more desperate team so they may have to over pay to 1) Fit under the cap and 2) Figure out how to get around the Expansion draft and the NMC issue. If I'm the Pens, Id ask the Jets what it takes for them to take Fleury and make it happen!

We don't need a goalie.

 

[cobra427]

You post as if Trouba exists within a vacuum. He doesn't. It isn't solely a scenario of trading Trouba in exchange for a downgrade, period.

A more likely scenario is that Chevy eventually trades him as part of a multi-asset deal in exchange for an upgrade, or that he lets him sit out for a year.

I didn't say a down grade. Now you are saying an upgrade. I think Chevy gets fair value in a package. It won't be what Jets fans expect but it will be fair value because teams have been approaching Chevy for months. Those inquiry's had to include offers, so value is close to set by now. A magical offer is not going to all of a sudden appear and current offers and interest will likely get worse not better. Chevy isn't dumb enough to make him sit for a year, that won't happen either.

 

[Gump Hasek]

Penguins are currently $4.5M over the cap and need to address this very soon! They have two goalies and it's no secrete they are trying to trade Fleury. Fleury has a M-NTC and a NMC which means if they don't trade him, they are forced to protect him in the upcoming expansion draft and lose Murray no doubt.

Trade #1 (what the Pens would like): Fleury & 2-1st round picks for Trouba. Jets get an upgrade in net and two 1st round picks to go with the young group they already have. Pens pay a big price in two 1st round picks but get a very good young D man in return (Pens may have to give up more IMO though). This allows the Pens to fit under the cap as well!

Trade #2 (what the Jets would like): Murray, Kunitz, & 1st round pick for Trouba. Jets get a very good young goalie and a 1st round pick. Kunitz is just a throw in so Pens can get closer to the Cap. Pens get Trouba. Enough said.

I believe the Pens are the more desperate team so they may have to over pay to 1) Fit under the cap and 2) Figure out how to get around the Expansion draft and the NMC issue. If I'm the Pens, Id ask the Jets what it takes for them to take Fleury and make it happen!

Pass on both of those unattractive scenarios. Neither replace Trouba's value on Winnipeg's blue line. Don't want a goalie, don't want a cap dump forward. They want to be compensated for the loss of a d-man that was second on their team in 5V5 minutes played last year.

 

[CaptainChef]

Mike Peca was the last player to sit out a full year. He was dealt for a 20 year old 5th overall pick coming off a 0.5 PPG season, and a 20 year old 6'4" 8th overall pick. It didn't seem to hurt Peca's value.


Chevy will do whats best for the Jets, contrary to your opinion.

Going to take your word regarding those two being 5th & 8th overall draft picks. Nevertheless, it was still ranked as one of Milbury's greatest trades ever.

http://thehockeywriters.com/the-best-mike-milbury-trades/