Proposal: Trouba Mega-Thread Part III

[Henchmen 21]

Absolutely it hurts Winnipeg to have Trouba holding out, but what choice do they have?

1. take a bad trade in return, thereby caving to Trouba/agent/dad and setting a precedent?

2. set a different precedent by letting Trouba sit - tell the league and agents that it's not a team to screw with regardless of the outcome.

3. make a good trade when the time comes, for the Jets hopefully sooner rather than later. Wishful thinking perhaps so the first two options are the more likely.

The reality is that the management in Winnipeg (and other less desirable cities in the NHL) have to be careful about how they manage their players to a far greater degree than a New York Rangers or Los Angeles Kings. It's not a desirable city to play in based on perception which depending on the individual may or may not have anything to do with reality. But the Jets management has shown tremendous loyalty to many of their players, re-signing them to decent contracts (so far nothing entirely stupid but still good money - get back to me in a few years on Buff). They will take care of the people that want to play there, otherwise not so much. It's a good organization, unless dear old daddy has an app that needs junior to be in a "better" market.

Trouba not playing absolutely weakens the Jets for this year. It's a tremendous blow to the team to lose a highly rated draft pick that has shown to be at minimum a very useful if not high scoring defenseman. Tossing away that asset by giving in to demands of a player/agent isn't going to help the team in the long run though because it does set that precedent that the team's management can be held hostage on a whim. The CBA exists to mitigate the risks to all teams in the NHL when they draft a player by giving them player security for seven years. Overhardt and Trouba are trying to circumvent that and it's not new behavior for the agent. Hopefully the Jets have a solid season with their defense and Trouba sits for a year with no salary - that takes ballpark $5 million out of his pocket and whatever percentage (10? 20?) out of Overhardt's as well.

The behavior that is being exhibited is hurting hockey down the road when the next CBA comes due for negotiation. Teams will be looking to strengthen the CBA when it comes to RFA negotiation and we all know that means lockout yet again (not that it wouldn't happen otherwise) and to be honest I'd actually back the NHL on that basis rather than the players.

Chris Pronger requested a trade out of Edmonton, lots of speculation as to why, but most agree his Wife was a driving force behind the actual request out. How has that bdad precedent hurt Edmonton exactly? Losing Pronger crippled their defense, and kinda ushedered in their era of finishing perenially last, but what PRECEDENT are you talking about exactly?

The Jets are set up to succeed without Trouba, what happened to edmonton was a totally different scenario, But I can't come up with one person taking the precedent of Chris Pronger's exit to hasten their own. You guys don't want the gloating internet posts, which I can totally understand given the nature of these message boards, but to quote that dude from walking dead, when you gotta eat ****, don't nibble at it. Bite, chew, swallow

 

[GoJetsGo55]

Come on, I get that hockey is a different conversation, since Canada is basically the centre of all things hockey, but trouba is a young man from michigan who misses his Trix cereal, or Denny's or whatever else they have in the states that we just don't here in canada. Big things have been made over google search results over immigrate to canada, but the whole point of that conversation is "see, people are even considering fleeing to Canada to escape this nonsense, to CANADA, can you imagine?", as if Canada is worse or inferior, when it's just DIFFERENT.

So.....if I get your point.....Trouba wants out of Winnipeg because it's in Canada. Ok.....sure? How does Winnipeg playing hardball with Trouba change the fact that Winnipeg exists in Canada?

The only time we get a spectacle out of a trade request is when it has not been honoured and the player is forced to make it public, by not reporting to camp or whatever. Trade requests happen ALL THE TIME, and the reason we don't hear about them is because they are honoured. Are edmonton weak because they traded Chris Pronger? No, they did what they had to and moved on.

Complete speculation with absolutely no basis behind it. You say trade requests happen ALL THE TIME. I say they don't. We are both bringing the same amount of evidence to support out theories. How did that trade work out for Edmonton again?
Also, the Pronger situation was COMPLETELY different.

And dude, Trouba is a 22 year old Right shot defenseman, already a top 4 guy with elite potential, and youre telling me there was no trade to be had, as if you know what's actually happening behind the scenes. Chevy had the opportunity to deal Trouba, in the time of the year when teams make the biggest changes to their team, and he came up empty, either his demands were too high, (you can thank peter chiarelli for that one), or he didn't work hard enough at it.

Again, all speculation. You're literally just making this all up as you go. You have no idea what Chevy did. You have no idea what the asking price was. You have no idea what was offered. All you're doing is building up a narrative with your own hypotheticals.

 

[GoJetsGo55]

Name me One human being on this planet not under contract who can provide the same service and skill level that Trouba does at his position.
I'm sorry, do you want to go back to the old days where players were barely compensated and the owners took in 90% of the revenue?

Fact is the economy is real, there are billions of dollars, with a B, in hockey, and Trouba has the skill set that few others possess. Money is not the issue with this demand, that seems clearly evident, Jake wants out of Winnipeg for personal reasons, If he didn't he wouldn't have used his total lame duck excuse of "Iwant to play top 4 minutes RHD", he was playing top 4 minutes, predominately on the right side.

How can you say

"I'm sorry, do you want to go back to the old days where players were barely compensated and the owners took in 90% of the revenue?"

and then say

"Money is not the issue with this demand, that seems clearly evident"


There are 2 facts that are pretty much set in stone

1) Trouba is doing what he believes is best for Trouba

2) Chevy is doing what he believes is best for the JETS. They employ him to make these decisions. His job is not to do what's best for Trouba. If Trouba has to sit in a dark room and feel sad for a year, that's entirely on Trouba. Chevy will make a trade if and when a good offer comes up. Until then, he is under no moral or legal obligation to do anything else.

 

[GoJetsGo55]

Chris Pronger requested a trade out of Edmonton, lots of speculation as to why, but most agree his Wife was a driving force behind the actual request out. How has that bdad precedent hurt Edmonton exactly? Losing Pronger crippled their defense, and kinda ushedered in their era of finishing perenially last, but what PRECEDENT are you talking about exactly?

The Jets are set up to succeed without Trouba, what happened to edmonton was a totally different scenario, But I can't come up with one person taking the precedent of Chris Pronger's exit to hasten their own. You guys don't want the gloating internet posts, which I can totally understand given the nature of these message boards, but to quote that dude from walking dead, when you gotta eat ****, don't nibble at it. Bite, chew, swallow

So....why would we follow the Edmonton model and make a hasty trade??????

 

[Blue Shakehead]

So your argument is that more trade request are not honoured than honoured? That's not a provable thing since like you said most trade requests don't become public, but that does not sound right at all, there are hundreds of players in the NHL, dozens of trades each year, did Subban ask for a trade out of Montreal? we don't know because he was traded before that question even came up, and now he's a pred and noone cares anymore.

And to answer your question, yes he should have accepted what you would call a "SUB par" offer for trouba, because this is not NHL 17, you can't just move trouba for rielly and call it a day

Here's the options, by order of preference:

1) Trade Trouba for optimal return (unlikely)
2) Sign Trouba and have him play for the Jets
3) Sign Trouba, have him play for Jets but then trade him for optimal return (same as #2, but intent on trading by 2017 draft).
4) Trade Trouba for sub-par return
5) Don't sign or trade Trouba. Let him play in Europe for the next 1-4 years.

 

[Henchmen 21]

How can you say

"I'm sorry, do you want to go back to the old days where players were barely compensated and the owners took in 90% of the revenue?"

and then say

"Money is not the issue with this demand, that seems clearly evident"


There are 2 facts that are pretty much set in stone

1) Trouba is doing what he believes is best for Trouba

2) Chevy is doing what he believes is best for the JETS. They employ him to make these decisions. His job is not to do what's best for Trouba. If Trouba has to sit in a dark room and feel sad for a year, that's entirely on Trouba. Chevy will make a trade if and when a good offer comes up. Until then, he is under no moral or legal obligation to do anything else.

I said that because it's accurate, there are Billions of dollars in hockey, trouba is entitled to his share of that just as anyone else is, Trouba wont get anymore money anywhere else than winnipeg, the market has been set for players of his age and skill level, I am speculating about this, but if Trouba wanted to sign in winnipeg, he would have been signed already, the money is not the issue, if it was he would've reported to camp, to prove to them that he's worth more, but he didnt report because he just isn't interested in playing in Winnipeg.

Yes Trouba is doing what he feels is best for his career, even though all of you Jets fans are convinced, (with good reason) that hes just costing himself in the end, maybe he is, but that's speculation, and maybe he isn't, but thats also speculation. Maybe he hates winnipeg because it's frigid, and small, that's speculation, maybe he always hated growing up in Michigan and wants to play somewhere warmer, but that's speculation.

You will find that most posts on a Hockey related message board is speculation from people not connected in any way to hockey. What we do know is Trouba refused to report to camp, a move that I can't recall happening very often in the past, did Subban refuse to report during his contract squabble? I actaully can't remember. He requested a trade in May, and Chevy stated he was looking for a similar aged/skilled LHD in a one for one. Everything else is speculation, and I'm sorry but Trouba is one of the best young defensemen in the game and he refused to report for you guys, I'd say that's speculation worthy.

 

[Henchmen 21]

Here's the options, by order of preference:

1) Trade Trouba for optimal return (unlikely)
2) Sign Trouba and have him play for the Jets
3) Sign Trouba, have him play for Jets but then trade him for optimal return (same as #2, but intent on trading by 2017 draft).
4) Trade Trouba for sub-par return
5) Don't sign or trade Trouba. Let him play in Europe for the next 1-4 years.

If it's Matthews asking for a trade in 3 years time, the Leafs have the same set of options, made a little worse by Matthews' history of already jumping the pond. If option 1 is out because other GMs sense blood in the water, and options 2 and 3 are out because Matthews really doesn't like Canadian winters and the Toronto Media's tendency to turn every broken glass into headline news, with option 5 a very real possibility, Matthews for a slightly older, top 6 centre, (but no potential) +, or Matthews for a Top Centre prospect +, would be the best option available.

As an honest question to Jets fans, would you prefer to lose Trouba for nothing, while he lose 4 NHL years playing overseas, or cut ties with the kid you drafted, and recoup some of your losses?

I know what my answer would be if Matthews forces our hand in the future, and I'm comfortable with that

 

[GoJetsGo55]

I said that because it's accurate, there are Billions of dollars in hockey, trouba is entitled to his share of that just as anyone else is, Trouba wont get anymore money anywhere else than winnipeg, the market has been set for players of his age and skill level, I am speculating about this, but if Trouba wanted to sign in winnipeg, he would have been signed already, the money is not the issue, if it was he would've reported to camp, to prove to them that he's worth more, but he didnt report because he just isn't interested in playing in Winnipeg.

Agreed on all points

Yes Trouba is doing what he feels is best for his career, even though all of you Jets fans are convinced, (with good reason) that hes just costing himself in the end, maybe he is, but that's speculation, and maybe he isn't, but thats also speculation. Maybe he hates winnipeg because it's frigid, and small, that's speculation, maybe he always hated growing up in Michigan and wants to play somewhere warmer, but that's speculation.

Agreed on all points

You will find that most posts on a Hockey related message board is speculation from people not connected in any way to hockey. What we do know is Trouba refused to report to camp, a move that I can't recall happening very often in the past, did Subban refuse to report during his contract squabble? I actaully can't remember. He requested a trade in May, and Chevy stated he was looking for a similar aged/skilled LHD in a one for one. Everything else is speculation, and I'm sorry but Trouba is one of the best young defensemen in the game and he refused to report for you guys, I'd say that's speculation worthy.

Agreed on all points.

10/10

Enjoy the long weekend.

 

[Henchmen 21]

So....why would we follow the Edmonton model and make a hasty trade??????

Did you not read the second paragraph? I said that it would specifically not happen to you guys, when Edmonton traded Pronger it was with an aging core and no prospects, plus scouts who couldn't hit on a player outside the 1st round to save their lives. Pronger had his wife driving him, (allegedly) to that trade request, who knows what's driving Trouba, but it's serious enough for him to not report to camp, a move, again, I can't remember happening before with a young player of this renown

 

[GoJetsGo55]

If it's Matthews asking for a trade in 3 years time, the Leafs have the same set of options, made a little worse by Matthews' history of already jumping the pond. If option 1 is out because other GMs sense blood in the water, and options 2 and 3 are out because Matthews really doesn't like Canadian winters and the Toronto Media's tendency to turn every broken glass into headline news, with option 5 a very real possibility, Matthews for a slightly older, top 6 centre, (but no potential) +, or Matthews for a Top Centre prospect +, would be the best option available.

As an honest question to Jets fans, would you prefer to lose Trouba for nothing, while he lose 4 NHL years playing overseas, or cut ties with the kid you drafted, and recoup some of your losses?

I know what my answer would be if Matthews forces our hand in the future, and I'm comfortable with that

If there was any risk of Trouba sitting out until his RFA status is gone, then you pull the ripcord and recoup as much as you can. I don't think there's even a 1% chance of that happening.

Trouba would sign long before losing that much of his NHL career.

 

[Henchmen 21]

Agreed on all points




Agreed on all points



Agreed on all points.

10/10

Enjoy the long weekend.

You too Mate, for all our sakes I'm praying for a thanksgiving miracle and this whole situation is sorted out before the season begins

 

[GoJetsGo55]

You too Mate, for all our sakes I'm praying for a thanksgiving miracle and this whole situation is sorted out before the season begins

Thanks I want a fast resolution too but I think we are in for a loooooooooong process

 

[JohnnyJacket13]

To EDM: Jacob Trouba + William Karlsson

To WPG: Jack Johnson + Gabriel Carlsson + CBJ 2nd Rd Pick

To CBJ: Ryan Nugent-Hopkins

For Edmonton, they go with Klefbom-Larsson/Sekera-Trouba as their top-4 and Wild Bill slots in at their 3C. Winnipeg gets a top-4 LHD, a very solid LHD prospect, and most likely a high second round pick. They go with Enstrom-Buff/Johnson-Myers as their top-4. Columbus gets their top-line center and declutter their log jam on the blue line.

 

[Street Hawk]

You too Mate, for all our sakes I'm praying for a thanksgiving miracle and this whole situation is sorted out before the season begins

Unlike drouin. Trouba has a large body of work in the NHL to assess.

So, there is no logic for those who say he needs to return to increase his value. I think the teams that are interested have seen enough.

What the jets need to do is to get the best return they can for him.

Two main factors that will dictate the outcome of the trade are:

1) what is the short term goal of the team? Do they fancy themselves a playoff team or are they still in the accumulating assets phase?
2) are they prepared to take the best offer overall or are they locked into a specific return? LHD?

Si, if playoffs are not absolute for this year, then go and get the best package you can get.

I mean, if Arizona calls, try to obtain the combination if young asserts that you covet. Be it a combination of duclair, Fischer, Murphy, Dvorak, chychrun, Crouse whomever.

Don't think it makes sense to eliminate teams just because you want a LHD. Once you get the assets back from moving Trouba, you can figure out what type of LHD you want to get. Can be a temp solution like a Kris Russell or a long term fix like a Fowler if you have what Anaheim needs, which is a scoring winger in a contract with less than Fowler.

 

[Maukkis]

To EDM: Jacob Trouba + William Karlsson

To WPG: Jack Johnson + Gabriel Carlsson + CBJ 2nd Rd Pick

To CBJ: Ryan Nugent-Hopkins

For Edmonton, they go with Klefbom-Larsson/Sekera-Trouba as their top-4 and Wild Bill slots in at their 3C. Winnipeg gets a top-4 LHD, a very solid LHD prospect, and most likely a high second round pick. They go with Enstrom-Buff/Johnson-Myers as their top-4. Columbus gets their top-line center and declutter their log jam on the blue line.

How many times do you want to see no as an answer?

There are a grand total of five (yes, that many) young defensemen between Columbus and Edmonton which fit the needs of Winnipeg. Johnson is not one of them, and no matter what prospect you slam on top of him (unless it's Werenski), it's not going to work. Give up.

 

[garyturner3]

You have no idea how many trade requests have been made that haven't currently been honoured. Ask Evander Kane, he asked for 3 straight years before being traded, and it was never made public until the very end. Or how about Jon Drouin? We all know what happened there.

The Jets aren't weak if they trade Trouba, but they are under no obligation to trade him for a return that is not up to par. It is the Jets right to decide what is fair value for Jacob and if they decide they are not getting it, it is also their right to sit him on his ass until he is 27 years old. I have a feeling he would break before that and come back and play. Obviously you hope that this isn't the case. You hope we could trade him for a similar valued LHD, or something close to that. If you're not getting offered that however, they are just as well off trying to hold onto Jacob until he changes his mind, and he will change his mind eventually. Even if it is just to play well enough to accommodate a trade.

While it's true the jets got an amazing return for Kane, make no mistake 95% of posters on here were were adamant it was not going to be a quality for quantity trade which is exactly what it ended up being in the end. I have no doubt they'll get they'll get a great return for Trouba, but the chances of them getting a 1-1 fair value trade are extremely remote.

 

[North]

To EDM: Jacob Trouba + William Karlsson

To WPG: Jack Johnson + Gabriel Carlsson + CBJ 2nd Rd Pick

To CBJ: Ryan Nugent-Hopkins

For Edmonton, they go with Klefbom-Larsson/Sekera-Trouba as their top-4 and Wild Bill slots in at their 3C. Winnipeg gets a top-4 LHD, a very solid LHD prospect, and most likely a high second round pick. They go with Enstrom-Buff/Johnson-Myers as their top-4. Columbus gets their top-line center and declutter their log jam on the blue line.

If the main piece coming back is Jack Johnson, you are not getting anything close Jacob Trouba.

Jack Johnson is garbage as a d man and nothing Winnipeg wants.

 

[gwh]

Wut? The longer this goes on the less the Jets will get for Trouba.

Talking trade value:

Chicago loses Seabrook for the season in October. Chicago is not a contender without Seabrook. Is this increasing Trouba's trade value, or decreasing it?

Trouba's trade value is lowest right now, when everybody has a full roster and many roster hopefuls.

 

[Yzerman1919*]

Brendan Smith+Anthony Mantha+1st

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Brendan Smith+Anthony Mantha+1st

From what TSN was reporting Trouba is seeking around $6 million per, So this wouldn't help us cap wise.

 

[Gardner McKay]

How do you figure?

you're in contention to win the Stanley cup with your roster, right now everyone is healthy, In late November some good teams will be sucking, and some players will be injured, when is a good player more valuable?

If this goes past Dec 1, jets lose short term, long term, they gain an image

Yeah. Images help win games on the ice.

 

[Street Hawk]

Talking trade value:

Chicago loses Seabrook for the season in October. Chicago is not a contender without Seabrook. Is this increasing Trouba's trade value, or decreasing it?

Trouba's trade value is lowest right now, when everybody has a full roster and many roster hopefuls.

Too simplified. There are also tagging rules in effect. Bib McKenzie mentioned earlier last week that teams must also be cognizant of cap space next season. Seabrook has a long term deal for example, so can't simply drop trouba in and be done. Depends how much is coming off the cap and such next season.

Thats why large cap hit players are harder to move between mid July to the end of the calendar year. Teams have mostly spent to their max. Makes it harder to even out the cap charges.

I would hope Chevy is realistic enough to not hold out for a 1 for 1 d for d trade. Very unlikely to occur. If there isn't the pressure to make the playoffs, then you continue to build and develop young talent. Target prospects that are very close, ie the ones that could join the moose, such as Dvorak or Fischer from Arizona, if you are looking to make a deal.

 

[Henkka]

From what TSN was reporting Trouba is seeking around $6 million per, So this wouldn't help us cap wise.

Smith (2.75M) + Nyquist (4.75M) + Russo (expansion protected bonus defenceman)

That would make enough space.

 

[tsanuri]

Here's the options, by order of preference:

1) Trade Trouba for optimal return (unlikely)
2) Sign Trouba and have him play for the Jets
3) Sign Trouba, have him play for Jets but then trade him for optimal return (same as #2, but intent on trading by 2017 draft).
4) Trade Trouba for sub-par return
5) Don't sign or trade Trouba. Let him play in Europe for the next 1-4 years.

You missed one, sign him and then lose him in the expansion draft for nothing.
Which could very well happen.

 

[Henkka]

You missed one, sign him and then lose him in the expansion draft for nothing.
Which could very well happen.

Also missed this one:

Don't sign him, let him play 1 season in Europe and then be lost in expansion draft for nothing.