Proposal: Trouba Mega-Thread Part III

[Atoyot]

You missed one, sign him and then lose him in the expansion draft for nothing.
Which could very well happen.

In what world is that possibility?

 

[kxx]

Thought Jets could just protect Trouba at the expansion draft?

 

[Yzerman1919*]

Smith (2.75M) + Nyquist (4.75M) + Russo (expansion protected bonus defenceman)

That would make enough space.

Fine by me. I'd rather keep Nyquist and get rid of junk like Howard or Ericsson

From what TSN was reporting Trouba is seeking around $6 million per, So this wouldn't help us cap wise.

Do you think VALUE wise that is a fair deal? Mantha+Smith+1st.

 

[ffh]

Also missed this one:

Don't sign him, let him play 1 season in Europe and then be lost in expansion draft for nothing.

all you would have to do is qualify him to be exempt.

 

[Evil Little]

all you would have to do is qualify him to be exempt.

He will not be exempt.

He will, however be protected.

No top pairing D will be left exposed, no matter how difficult their agent or contract situation.

 

[KingBogo]

You missed one, sign him and then lose him in the expansion draft for nothing.
Which could very well happen.

You don't think the Jets would just protect him? Even if he never plays for the Jets again what he returns will be someone above the lowest player on your protection list.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Fine by me. I'd rather keep Nyquist and get rid of junk like Howard or Ericsson



Do you think VALUE wise that is a fair deal? Mantha+Smith+1st.

Doubt it just can't see Cheveldayoff being interested in this kind of deal, First off Winnipeg doesn't need any forwards and Smith isn't an upgrade over losing Trouba. I know that Cheveldayoff can do much better then this elsewhere. Detroit just doesn't have the pieces to land Trouba other then Larkin who's untouchable.

 

[Street Hawk]

Doubt it just can't see Cheveldayoff being interested in this kind of deal, First off Winnipeg doesn't need any forwards and Smith isn't an upgrade over losing Trouba. I know that Cheveldayoff can do much better then this elsewhere. Detroit just doesn't have the pieces to land Trouba other then Larkin who's untouchable.

If the jets don't need any forwards, a deal is going g to be hard to make. They can get a dman in return but it's either going to be someone who doesn't project to be as good as Trouba, or someone that is very young with no nhl experience. They don't seem interested in one close to age 30. That d would be combined with another asset.

So, it seems slim that a deal can be made d for d. At least in terms of immediate help for the jets.

I still think best course of action is to get the best package, so if hat is forwards, so be it. Jets have ole ty of forward assets to move to get a dman later. I mean, given that enstrom has a NMC, and the Jets would have to protect Trouba from LV, then maybe getting someone unproven is the best option.

Could enstrom waive the NMC to help the jets? Depends in who gets exposed and whether it makes more sense for the LV team to take hat other player vs enstrom.

Bieksa in Anaheim could waive his NMC and be fine since I think LV would take manson over a 37 year old blue liner.

Kind of narrows the options and teams to trade if the request is only a young NHL rdman in return.

 

[Gump Hasek]

If the jets don't need any forwards, a deal is going g to be hard to make. They can get a dman in return but it's either going to be someone who doesn't project to be as good as Trouba, or someone that is very young with no nhl experience. They don't seem interested in one close to age 30. That d would be combined with another asset.

So, it seems slim that a deal can be made d for d. At least in terms of immediate help for the jets.

I still think best course of action is to get the best package, so if hat is forwards, so be it. Jets have ole ty of forward assets to move to get a dman later. I mean, given that enstrom has a NMC, and the Jets would have to protect Trouba from LV, then maybe getting someone unproven is the best option.

Could enstrom waive the NMC to help the jets? Depends in who gets exposed and whether it makes more sense for the LV team to take hat other player vs enstrom.

Bieksa in Anaheim could waive his NMC and be fine since I think LV would take manson over a 37 year old blue liner.

Am amazed that very few people have cottoned onto what is actually occurring here. Cheveldayoff intentionally set the price quite specifically high so that the return is narrowed to an LH version of Trouba. They don't want to trade him in other words; if they do, the return will be of equal value and as such will make the team whole, not punish it.

Kind of narrows the options and teams to trade if the request is only a young NHL dman in return.

Well, that is obviously the intent. Cheveldayoff will only trade the player on his own terms. Since those terms will be difficult for others to meet, the high ask is clearly intended as a signal that they are girded for a protracted battle with the agent and are not about to cave to the player's demands.

 

[wintersej]

Am amazed that very few people have cottoned onto what is actually occurring here. Cheveldayoff intentionally set the price quite specifically high so that the return is narrowed to an LH version of Trouba. They don't want to trade him in other words; if they do, the return will be of equal value and as such will make the team whole, not punish it.



Well, that is obviously the intent. Cheveldayoff will only trade the player on his own terms. Since those terms will be difficult for others to meet, the high ask is clearly intended as a signal that they are girded for a protracted battle with the agent and are not about to cave to the player's demands.

And what happens when Trouba caves but then starts the Kyle Turris sucking it up routine? Because that's exactly how it will play out.

 

[gwh]

Too simplified... teams must also be cognizant of cap space...

Over course it is simplified, didn't even mention expansion draft protection.

The point was that this train is stuck on the station until someone gets hurt and needs a roster filler on top4 RHD.

I would hope Chevy is realistic enough to not hold out for a 1 for 1 d for d trade. Very unlikely to occur.

Almost, impossible?

Either he is Chevy is stupid, or he put that out to choke the market. This trade is not happening.

 

[Tasteless Beaver]

And what happens when Trouba caves but then starts the Kyle Turris sucking it up routine? Because that's exactly how it will play out.

Then the very thing he's trying to prevent happens, and he gets less as a UFA.

 

[cobra427]

And what happens when Trouba caves but then starts the Kyle Turris sucking it up routine? Because that's exactly how it will play out.

Then they healthy scratch him, cut his minutes, and/or play him on the 3rd line, and his value goes down some more. Then they trade him for the best deal they can get at the time, since he is hurting the team, rather than the better offers they are getting now. That is exactly what happened with Turris. DM misplayed his hand and got less value in the return.

 

[Gump Hasek]

Then they healthy scratch him, cut his minutes, and/or play him on the 3rd line, and his value goes down some more. Then they trade him for the best deal they can get at the time, since he is hurting the team, rather than the better offers they are getting now.

You are writing a narrative for something that hasn't happened. You have no idea whether or not the offers at current are any good, nor do you know what their caliber will be if/when Trouba signs a deal with the Jets that contains a limited NTC.

If the number of potential suitors is increased vs. limited as they are now, the odds are likely that the return will be improved later on. That is precisely what the Jets are seeking; they clearly want to deal on their own terms vs. having the terms set by others.

 

[Hobby Bull]

So you get drafted and become an Indentured Servant? Trouba signed his Entry level deal, played through it and is now a Free agent, Yes Winnipeg has a right to protect it's young assets, but they do not own that young man in perpetuity.
If the Gm of the 49ers came down to Kaepernick and said, I own your contract, you must not kneel during the anthem, that would be grossly wrong.

Just because Trouba was drafted by Winnipeg, does not mean they can tell him when to sign and where to play, if he really wants out of Winnipeg for whatever reason they should honour that request. I mean come on, Trouba is a young RHD who Chevy knew he had to deal last May, how hard is his job to get that done? I get that Hall for Trouba would never have happened, but some sort of 3 way deal could absolutely have been set up, a draft day trade is always a possibility, but Chevy played hardball, did not honour his employees request of a transfer, and is now watching his training camp missing a key piece.

Your "transfer" analogy is ... interesting.

An employee, wanting to go from General Motors is able to request a "transfer" to Ford, for example? I wasn't aware that it worked that way.

Bringing in a hockey world example, then, let's say Matthews wanted a transfer to Arizona when his E.L.C. ended, he should just be allowed to go?

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

Your prospect pool has done a lot for the team in the last 5 years.

Look at what came to WPG from Atlanta.. Wheeler. Scheifele was drafted before Winnipegs first year. Little was already there. As was Postma, Enstrom, Buff.

Your top 3-5 prospect pool has accomplished nothing yet, the core of the team that got them to the playoffs only to win nothing was built before Cheveldayoff took over the team. I see no reason to give Cheveldayoff undue praise until they actually win something. Being a bad team year after year and getting top pick after top pick isn't hard to do.

As far as your "do research comment", I have been watching this team since they first came to Atlanta. I suffered through the days of Damien Rhodes and Norm Maracle in goal, letting up 6-8 goals a game.

Just because you don't like what I have to say doesn't mean I know nothing about the team as you suggest.

Totally have to call you out on the bolded. You seem to be writing it like True North (Jets management) should not be credited for drafting Scheifele??? What the heck? Everyone had him ranked 20's to 30's. He was a "way off the board" selection that has become one of the best young centers in the game (ranked #13 among current centers by Sportsnet recently).

We've had one top 5 pick since returning and that was actually a lottery pick (actually finished 6th). So the narrative your spinning is not true. The Jets prospects are ranked 3rd to 5th by any standard in the NHL and we'll see over the next couple of season how this plays out.

Without guys like Perrault, Frolik, Stempniak, Stafford, Myers etc... the Jets would not likely have made the '15 playoffs. Chevy brought them in.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

He'll play in Europe with a deal that allows him to return to the NHL at anytime and become a Black Ace next year since you won't want to protect 4 D men. Or you lose a bunch of forwards to keep an unsigned player who sat out a year and has no desire to ever play for you again. Or he gets his trade.

Win-win for him.


The thread is a joke anyways with all the people turning their noses up at Fowler and Krug who are fair value as the top D coming back given the circumstances. They can get a decent young player with NHL experience and some prospects or a massive haul of prospects. Nothing wrong with that the Jets will be fine simply because he wasn't their most important D man or close to it. Someone will pay up a better offer than what we got for Dougie Hamilton.

Explain again how we lose "a bunch" of forwards? Each team can only lose a maximum of one player. Each team WILL lose exactly one player. The Jets will have to expose several good young players. None of which have any where near the value of Trouba or any of our top 4 D. We also have a glut of great young talent being held back from moving up. So replacing the forward we lose will be so much easier than losing Trouba (or what we can trade him for).

 

[cobra427]

You are writing a narrative for something that hasn't happened. You have no idea whether or not the offers at current are any good, nor do you know what their caliber will be if/when Trouba signs a deal with the Jets that contains a limited NTC.

If the number of potential suitors is increased vs. limited as they are now, the odds are likely that the return will be improved later on. That is precisely what the Jets are seeking; they clearly want to deal on their own terms vs. having the terms set by others.

You don't know if the potential suitors are limited now or will increase later. It could be the opposite. I gave you 2 examples that I am very familiar with where the GM (DM) waited too long to make a deal (Bodker/Turris) and had to take a lesser return. Give me an example of an RFA that held out until November/December, didn't want to play with the team, then signed and everything worked out great for the player and the team?

Great idea that they want to deal on their terms, in reality it won't work that way unless they take the best deal they can in the next week or so. There have to be multiple suiters that want to do a deal before the season starts, agreed? Once the season starts, the return will start to slip. Again just my opinion, we'll see what happens

 

[Halla]

TOR: J.Trouba, C.Stoner
ANA: JVR @50%, M.Hunwick
WPG: C.Fowler, O.Kase

Why each team does it

leafs: Get a top 4 RHD. Rielly-Zaitsev and Gardiner-Trouba just about shore up their D. They have a lot of skilled wingers coming up that can hopefully fill the hole left by JVR

Ducks: They get their top line LW and clear nearly 4M in space to enable them to sign Lindholm and Rakell. Hunwick is both an upgrade on stoner and 2M cheaper, plus has an expiring contract.

Jets: Move out a distraction and in return get a top 4 LHD, a guy that probably lines up on their top pairing. They also add an intriguing prospect to their forward group.

 

[wintersej]

^^^ Jets fans won't like that. The plus on top of Fowler would have to be far more substantial.

 

[wintersej]

Then they healthy scratch him, cut his minutes, and/or play him on the 3rd line, and his value goes down some more. Then they trade him for the best deal they can get at the time, since he is hurting the team, rather than the better offers they are getting now. That is exactly what happened with Turris. DM misplayed his hand and got less value in the return.

Lot of cutting of your nose to spite your face here. The best time for Trouba offers was before the draft when more teams had cap space and assets and WPG didn't pull the trigger. Before next draft will be the next best time. Throughout this process WPG fans have been wrong at every turn. Don't see that trend ending.

 

[Stej]

Lot of cutting of your nose to spite your face here. The best time for Trouba offers was before the draft when more teams had cap space and assets and WPG didn't pull the trigger. Before next draft will be the next best time. Throughout this process WPG fans have been wrong at every turn. Don't see that trend ending.

Just like when we were so wrong about the Kane thing. We're such idiots. Never right about anything.

 

[Brock Radunske]

He will not be exempt.

He will, however be protected.

No top pairing D will be left exposed, no matter how difficult their agent or contract situation.

If he truly was top pairing today, we wouldn't be in this mess, would we?

 

[Brock Radunske]

TOR: J.Trouba, C.Stoner
ANA: JVR @50%, M.Hunwick
WPG: C.Fowler, O.Kase

Why each team does it

leafs: Get a top 4 RHD. Rielly-Zaitsev and Gardiner-Trouba just about shore up their D. They have a lot of skilled wingers coming up that can hopefully fill the hole left by JVR

Ducks: They get their top line LW and clear nearly 4M in space to enable them to sign Lindholm and Rakell. Hunwick is both an upgrade on stoner and 2M cheaper, plus has an expiring contract.

Jets: Move out a distraction and in return get a top 4 LHD, a guy that probably lines up on their top pairing. They also add an intriguing prospect to their forward group.

So the Leafs shed 4 mill and bring back what....11ish?(counting retention)
Yeah....no.

 

[howkie]

TOR: J.Trouba, C.Stoner
ANA: JVR @50%, M.Hunwick
WPG: C.Fowler, O.Kase

Why each team does it

leafs: Get a top 4 RHD. Rielly-Zaitsev and Gardiner-Trouba just about shore up their D. They have a lot of skilled wingers coming up that can hopefully fill the hole left by JVR

Ducks: They get their top line LW and clear nearly 4M in space to enable them to sign Lindholm and Rakell. Hunwick is both an upgrade on stoner and 2M cheaper, plus has an expiring contract.

Jets: Move out a distraction and in return get a top 4 LHD, a guy that probably lines up on their top pairing. They also add an intriguing prospect to their forward group.

Didn´t we got info that Trouba didn´t wanna play in Canada at all?
If he gets traded i think he ends up in Metro...