wintersej
Registered User
In addition to Fowler, don't forget Shattenkirk is out there still about to be allowed to walk for nothing. If bidding gets "high", STL jumps right back in. The supply/demand ratio is way off what WPG fans are thinking.
Proposal: Trouba Mega-Thread Part III
- Thread starter EastonBlues22
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In addition to Fowler, don't forget Shattenkirk is out there still about to be allowed to walk for nothing. If bidding gets "high", STL jumps right back in. The supply/demand ratio is way off what WPG fans are thinking.
Evil Little
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- Jan 22, 2014
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Your prospect pool has done a lot for the team in the last 5 years.
Look at what came to WPG from Atlanta.. Wheeler. Scheifele was drafted before Winnipegs first year. Little was already there. As was Postma, Enstrom, Buff.
Your top 3-5 prospect pool has accomplished nothing yet, the core of the team that got them to the playoffs only to win nothing was built before Cheveldayoff took over the team. I see no reason to give Cheveldayoff undue praise until they actually win something. Being a bad team year after year and getting top pick after top pick isn't hard to do.
As far as your "do research comment", I have been watching this team since they first came to Atlanta. I suffered through the days of Damien Rhodes and Norm Maracle in goal, letting up 6-8 goals a game.
Just because you don't like what I have to say doesn't mean I know nothing about the team as you suggest.
1) It's 'draft and develop' that front offices preach, not 'draft and put them in the lineup right away because they'll be good enough already'. They drafted two goalies who have now put some time in at the AHL level and at least one appears ready to try to make noise in the NHL. That pick was made after only one season in Winnipeg.
2) Who's "being a bad team year after year and getting top pick after top pick"? The Jets' picks were 7th, 9th, 13th, 9th, 17th, and most recently 2nd (after finishing 6th-last and winning the lottery). They have actually been shredded by many fans for not being bad (and drafting high) enough--do a search on the Jets board for 'no man's land' or 'mushy middle'.
In any case, it's quite different from drafting 3rd one year and 4th the next. Only to take big dumb, smooth skaters with all the tools and no tool box. But I digress.
3) Byfuglien, Little, Wheeler, Ladd, and Enström are and/or were great, but they had nothing around them and the team had no expendable assets with which to complement them.
In that case, you take the picks. Especially if they belong to the team willing to sign that contract.
The Jets will be protecting Hellebuyck in the expansion draft.
Even if he doesn't play before then, and even if he's under contract with a European club, the Jets will need to protect Trouba in the expansion draft or Las Vegas can select his rights.
Fowler is a UFA in two years. In Trouba the Jets were counting on a core player who would be contributing throughout Schiefele's, Ehlers's, Hellebuyck's, and Laine's primes. With cost control discount over the next four years.
Fowler may be great, but he's simply not comparable contract-status-wise.
Irishguy42
Mr. Preachy
tony d
New poll series coming from me in June
It's going to be interesting to see what happens with Trouba. All I know is he's probably done with the Jets.
Even if that is true, which it probably is. It has little bearing on what the Jets will trade him for. Chevy will get what he wants (not necessarily the exact player, but still an equal value) or he won't trade him. No one can make the Jets take a reduced value, plain and simple. They are under no obligation to do any other team a solid.
Your prospect pool has done a lot for the team in the last 5 years.
Look at what came to WPG from Atlanta.. Wheeler. Scheifele was drafted before Winnipegs first year. Little was already there. As was Postma, Enstrom, Buff.
Your top 3-5 prospect pool has accomplished nothing yet, the core of the team that got them to the playoffs only to win nothing was built before Cheveldayoff took over the team. I see no reason to give Cheveldayoff undue praise until they actually win something. Being a bad team year after year and getting top pick after top pick isn't hard to do.
Prospects take time to develop. Scheifele was the Jets first draft pick and he's just coming into his own now. The Atlanta team that came over had pretty bare cupboards and we've improved on that dramatically. Chevy's drafting has been pretty good for the most part, which for a city like Winnipeg is very important as attracting new talents for a losing team isn't easy here.
You're wrong about us tanking every season and picking high. Jets averaged their first pick at 9.5 or 10 if you include their actual placement at the end of this season and not the lottery win. We've picked up Scheifele, Trouba, Morrissey, Ehlers, Connor, and Laine with our picks and the only top 5 pick was Laine. There aren't too many players picked outside of the top 3 that come into the league the same year after they're drafted, let alone make an impact on the team right away. I didn't see the rest of your conversation, but it just looks like you dislike the team and are looking for anything negative to pick apart. You take a team like Toronto last season and take away every good prospect they have like Nylander and then have them draft 7th in the 2016 draft. I'd like to know where that team ends up in 5 years and whether they've made the playoffs even once. At least they have a good coach to help develop their NHL talent.
Aside from the Logan Stanley pick (long term project), Chevy's done a good job with his first rounders. He's also done a decent job in the few trades he's made, landing Armia, Roslovic (pick), Stafford, Myers, and Lemieux for Kane and Bogosian+Kasdorf, as well as Dano+1st for Ladd (UFA) at the TDL. He hit a bump in the road when he couldn't re-sign Frolik, but I think term was the issue there. He stole a great player the Ducks couldn't afford in Matthieu Perreault. Drafted Hellebuyck and Comrie in back to back seasons who look to be our future in goal at the NHL level, as well as Jamie Phillips who has looked strong. Re-signed Buff and Scheifele to long term deals. The Trouba thing likely has nothing to do with money and everything to do with location, Winnipeg is pretty boring.
Patience will be key to Winnipeg's push towards playoff contention. We have quality vets to surround the young players fighting for roster spots like Enstrom, Buff, Myers on D, and Wheeler, Little, Stafford, and Perreault up front. Aside from Stafford who may be traded this year if we're out of the playoffs I think we've got a good mix of talent coming up and our future looks good. Expecting instant results from draft picks is something only teams like Chicago and Pittsburgh have truly benefited from with Crosby/Malkin/Fleury and Toews/Kane. Tampa got Stamkos while they were somewhat competitive and had a down season, Kings got Doughty. Well the Jets didn't have that kind of opportunity, until hopefully now after winning the lottery and drafting Laine. I think he's further behind than Kyle Connor at the moment, but he's definitely got the potential to turn some heads once he acclimates himself to the NHL game.
Maukkis
EZ4ENCE
- Mar 16, 2016
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Logical. There wasn't a deal to be done in the summer, and nothing relevant has really changed during the summer anywhere (other than NJ losing Larsson, but they don't have the assets). On the other hand, Morrissey has looked fantastic during the preseason, which has probably reduced pressure from Chevy too.
Until someone feels like they need an upgrade or we face a plethora of injuries, Trouba will sit and lose about 27 thousand dollars a day (some playing with numbers from our board). Only time will tell how long does it take for one of the parties to blink.
Number1RedWingsFan52
Registered User
Well yes of course Cheveldayoff will take the best deal and if it comes from a Western Conference team so be it.
lomiller1
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- Jan 13, 2015
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IIRC McKenzie said that multiple GM’s told him that they would have beat that offer if they knew Hamilton was available. I believe Hamilton said that they made an offer and Neely never even came back with a counteroffer. It sounds more like Sweeny panicked, maybe because Hamilton’s agent was trying to build some behind the scenes pressure.
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lomiller1
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IMO it’s a lot more likely that he plays with the Jets at least this year and maybe gets moved at the trade deadline or draft if he’s moved at all this year.
JetsHomer
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- Nov 29, 2011
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Turris eventually signed a bridge contract and played 6 games for the Yotes after his holdout. I wouldn't be surprised is something similar happens with Trouba
wintersej
Registered User
Other way around. The Bruins made three different offers of varying lengths and never heard back. Sweeney absolutely rushed the deal because he wanted to get the deal done before EDM could put forth an offersheet.
gwh
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- Mar 4, 2013
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It means he scores more than the worst guy the team could replace him with.
Practically you can learn the same info by sorting goals/60...
"hus, ‘baseline’ (or ‘replacement’) level players represent the quality of player that could be acquired for relatively little salary/cost on the free agent or trade markets."
lomiller1
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Pretty much what it says. It's the number of goals (generated or prevented) that player is worth to his team as compared to a replacement level player. Basically it's a single number stat that attempts to quantify the value of the player to their team.
first good google hit I found describing it in more detail
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2016...cal-applications-to-player-evaluation-part-1/
Still... "overrated", and "regressing" right?
Only 2 players under 23 on that top-end list. Can you guess who? (hint: both are unsigned RFAs and neither play for the Sabres).
KingDeathMetal
Registered User
NYR offers McDonagh for Trouba +. Don't even try to turn that one down.
PO'd at McD for that ugly goal in OT. This is me blowing off steam. Come on, accept this deal before I come to my senses.
PO'd at McD for that ugly goal in OT. This is me blowing off steam. Come on, accept this deal before I come to my senses.
PhilJets
Winnipeg is Good
Ok done
We throw in Lowry or Dano.
We get a mid round pick?
Since Jets winning the cup in 1-2 years. MCD is a good fit now.
Mc D Buff
Enstrom MYers
Morrissey Postma
Turris hated being there but had to sign a deal or sit a year. When he played those 6 games, he was mailing it in, not playing hard. Tip and DM knew he had to be traded or benched at that time. The best they could do was Runblad(highly rated prospect) and a second for Turris. The second turned into Vermette which helped them to the WCF that year. So the trade worked out for the Yotes, but they had to make a move quickly and the initial return was pretty bad.
The Jets run the same risk. Trouba wants out and he might eventually be forced to sign or sit out a year. If he hates being there, he might not play hard or have a poor attitude, his play and minutes could suffer. Then what? Now his minutes get cut or he gets benched, if the Jets want to win games, but both of those are a bad way to showcase a player for a trade. His value would go down.
It would be great if he signs and can play hard and well even if he doesn't want to be there. It just doesn't work that way which is why they need to move him in the next few weeks, that is best for the Jets.
I think that there are two outcomes that will work for the Jets.
1) Get the best trade possible, which probably comes quite close to December 1. At that point, teams will have some pressure to pull the trigger on a trade so that they can have Trouba for the balance of this season. Also, Trouba will be most motivated to negotiate a suitable deal with a prospective new team, which will enhance his value.
2) Trouba rethinks his trade request and decides to play with the Jets. That's not exactly unprecedented (e.g. Drouin), though I think it is highly unlikely. At this point, the Jets are likely wanting to press the issue a bit to see if there is any scope for this.
Personally, I think the Jets trade Trouba sometime close to December 1 for the best deal possible. Chevy is fond of saying that the NHL is a "deadline driven" league. I think it might be part of a large multi-player deal, or multiple deals by the Jets. They will want to address their asset stack at forward to fill in some needs on defense (short and long term).
I wouldn't ignore the impact of Morrissey's development. He has been a stand-out in camp, and looks like he might be a viable option in the top-4. That combined with Enstrom looking better than he has in some time could solidify the Jets top-4, in which case they might look at a trade return that is more future-oriented, with perhaps a short-term solution on LHD.
There was a thread not to long ago where Jet's fans were very much opposed to Lemieux for Hagg.. This is just horrendous, just awful.
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