Proposal: Trouba Mega-Thread Part III

[aj8000]

What decreases his value is the trade request going public.

Actually, going public makes no difference in his trade value for the people who actually matter which is the GM`s of each of the teams in the NHL. Think about it for a second, do you think the other GM`s did not already know he wanted to be traded before the big announcement? Do you think his agent did not pick up the phone and call the GM's of the places he wants to be and say Trouba wants to be out of Winnipeg, lets make a deal.

The only place his value drops because of his trade request is on discussion boards such as these and guess what what we propose and speculate about here means nothing.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Stats like Rel CF/60, Rel SC/60 etc don't account for QoT, in fact QoT impacts them far more than QoC or zone starts (the numbers I gave are zone start adjusted). If you look at his time on the ice without Stuart, Trouba actully has some of the best overall possession numbers in the NHL over the last 2 years

But aren't you limiting the sample size a lot by doing that? I generally try to stay away from doing that because you often end up changing more factors than you think. For example, it's easy to jump to the conclusion that the lack of Stuart sets Trouba free. But what if he gets vastly different minutes when away from him? What if his new partner has more of a positive effect than Stuart had a negative one? Just stating why I rarely try to look at the smaller sample myself.

As for the stats, CF% RelTM uses the WOWY approach and has Trouba ranking #52 in the league among D-men with a regular job. In my experience, it's a more reliable stat than just Rel CF%.

 

[Legend123]

Actually, going public makes no difference in his trade value for the people who actually matter which is the GM`s of each of the teams in the NHL. Think about it for a second, do you think the other GM`s did not already know he wanted to be traded before the big announcement? Do you think his agent did not pick up the phone and call the GM's of the places he wants to be and say Trouba wants to be out of Winnipeg, lets make a deal.

The only place his value drops because of his trade request is on discussion boards such as these and guess what what we propose and speculate about here means nothing.

Dude his trade request going public to the general public or to the other NHL GMs is the same. Jets lose leverage, other teams know hes on the block.
Trade requests always lower players' values.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Dude his trade request going public to the general public or to the other NHL GMs is the same. Jets lose leverage, other teams know hes on the block.
Trade requests always lower players' values.

Like I said earlier, I don't think it's as universal as you make it sound. In a situation with a good number of interested teams the competition will drive up the price towards what Jets want or it will falter.

Trade requests lower value because the other party knows that the other team is in a bind. But in a situation like this, common ground between two parties isn't the driving force, it's the competition between interested buyers.

 

[aj8000]

Really? How do you know that? His value does not drop because of the trade request privately or public. We are dealing with 29 other teams that want to make their team better and if Trouba is a fit and they have expendable assets, they will make a deal. Based on some of the contracts given out, I would say that the other GM's are more likely to overpay for Trouba then underpay since good defense men do not come available that often.

If you have not been paying attention, Trouba is only available for the right overpay on the Jets terms or he will need to suck it up and sign with the Jets.

 

[Gavy]

Actually, going public makes no difference in his trade value for the people who actually matter which is the GM`s of each of the teams in the NHL. Think about it for a second, do you think the other GM`s did not already know he wanted to be traded before the big announcement? Do you think his agent did not pick up the phone and call the GM's of the places he wants to be and say Trouba wants to be out of Winnipeg, lets make a deal.

The only place his value drops because of his trade request is on discussion boards such as these and guess what what we propose and speculate about here means nothing.

You're in for a rude awakening if he gets traded. Publicly requesting a trade absolutely lowers his value.


Also, Krug for Trouba is laughable. If I'm the Jets, you're adding something more valuable to Krug because there's no way I'd accept Krug as the main piece of Trouba

 

[Legend123]

Really? How do you know that? His value does not drop because of the trade request privately or public. We are dealing with 29 other teams that want to make their team better and if Trouba is a fit and they have expendable assets, they will make a deal. Based on some of the contracts given out, I would say that the other GM's are more likely to overpay for Trouba then underpay since good defense men do not come available that often.

If you have not been paying attention, Trouba is only available for the right overpay on the Jets terms or he will need to suck it up and sign with the Jets.

Why is it that trade requests never lowers value of fans players??
Everytime a player requested a trade, his value went down. Turris, Drouin, Nash, etc. Its not cuz ur a fan of Trouba that he will be exempt of the obvious. And dont tell me his value wont go down cuz everyone wants a top 4 D, stop the bs plz. Nash was a premium scoring winger, Turris had the potential of #1 C who are incredibly rare, Drouin had the potential of a top liner.
And no ur not gonna get an overpay for Trouba, ur gonna get an acceptable trade or risk losing him for the entire season. I doubt the jets go down that route. They will look to trade him as they get more and more desperate esp if they see themselves competing for a playoff spot.

 

[aj8000]

You're in for a rude awakening if he gets traded. Publicly requesting a trade absolutely lowers his value.


Also, Krug for Trouba is laughable. If I'm the Jets, you're adding something more valuable to Krug because there's no way I'd accept Krug as the main piece of Trouba

We will see if I am in for a rude awakening; however, it might just surprise you instead. If the Jets had to dump Trouba then yes it would be a fire sale, but they do not need to dump him.

Krug for Trouba ???? When did I ever say that?

 

[broc]

I don't think asking for a trade hurts his value, because there has never been a time that young skilled D has been valued as highly as now. It's rare to grab a great D during UFA, so when one is available you can bet many teams will be interested.

Chevy is no clown GM like Chiarelli or Sweeney, as evidenced by the terrific return he got for Kane (who also wanted a trade). The return for Trouba will be high, reflecting the interest and demand.

 

[aj8000]

Why is it that trade requests never lowers value of fans players??
Everytime a player requested a trade, his value went down. Turris, Drouin, Nash, etc. Its not cuz ur a fan of Trouba that he will be exempt of the obvious. And dont tell me his value wont go down cuz everyone wants a top 4 D, stop the bs plz. Nash was a premium scoring winger, Turris had the potential of #1 C who are incredibly rare, Drouin had the potential of a top liner.
And no ur not gonna get an overpay for Trouba, ur gonna get an acceptable trade or risk losing him for the entire season. I doubt the jets go down that route. They will look to trade him as they get more and more desperate esp if they see themselves competing for a playoff spot.

Relax, your blood pressure is getting high. Trade requests only potentially lower value if the team feels they need to dump the player fast and take the first deal they get. Trouba will not sit out the season. He will resign a bridge with the Jets and if he gets traded it will be on the Jets terms. You call what I am saying BS; however, you maybe surprised how this plays out.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

so what constitutes "quite a few teams interested" in trouba and what does "interested" mean exactly?

how many teams realistically want/need trouba, can afford him right away, can afford him long term, that he is willing(he cant be forced to sign long term he can sign 1 year deals) AND have the assets they both can AND want to move to land him?

what teams are we generally talking here and how many of those are the same teams interested in Fowler?

me thinks these questions need be asked first, otherwise these posts this thread, is pointless

 

[aj8000]

me thinks these questions need be asked first, otherwise these posts this thread, is pointless

All of these threads about trades and values are pointless. It just gives us something to do since we have zero influence on the eventual outcome.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

so what constitutes "quite a few teams interested" in trouba and what does "interested" mean exactly?

how many teams realistically want/need trouba, can afford him right away, can afford him long term, that he is willing(he cant be forced to sign long term he can sign 1 year deals) AND have the assets they both can AND want to move to land him?

what teams are we generally talking here and how many of those are the same teams interested in Fowler?

me thinks these questions need be asked first, otherwise these posts this thread, is pointless

The only teams supposedly linked to Trouba so far that i saw, Were the Rangers, Bruins, Red Wings and Coyotes. Other then that haven't seen any more teams being listed out there yet.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

All of these threads about trades and values are pointless. It just gives us something to do since we have zero influence on the eventual outcome.

yah but maybe it would stop fans from thinking they actually have a clue what a GM (including Chevy) will actually do or not do....

I see alot of posts that go into quite alot of depth and at quite alot of effort about a topic none of the authors really know anything about

 

[Legend123]

Relax, your blood pressure is getting high. Trade requests only potentially lower value if the team feels they need to dump the player fast and take the first deal they get. Trouba will not sit out the season. He will resign a bridge with the Jets and if he gets traded it will be on the Jets terms. You call what I am saying BS; however, you maybe surprised how this plays out.

lol my blood pressure thats a first thx for the laugh

 

[Jeti]

turris almost held out for the entire season. Same agent as trouba's...

Almost is the key word here. Trouba has far more to lose than the Jets by sitting out for the year. He's an extremely valuable asset, but the team can go on without him. He can't continue his NHL career without the team. If nothing has happened by late November, he'll either sign at a discount to facilitate a trade to a team that otherwise couldn't fit him under the cap, or he'll sign a fair deal and play for the Jets until they can work out a deal (likely next off season).

If he wants huge money (although it's only speculated) and to dictate where he goes, he'll have to soften on at least one of those to make something happen. That's life.

 

[haveandare]

Every time a similar issue comes up the fans of the team in question always argue why things are going their way and everything is fine and there's no pressure.

He's a good young player who isn't playing. There's pressure. WPG will almost certainly not get what they want but they'll get a decent haul.

 

[Hunter368]

Do a bit of research and compare the roster and prospect pool of the team in 2011 and now, 5 years later.

I'll give you a hint... the best prospect in 2011 was Patrice Cormier, and the second best was maybe a toss-up between Eric O'Dell and Paul Postma. "Bad" doesn't even begin to describe the organizational depth.

I know it's a bit difficult for some in the "major" markets to realize that it takes that amount of time to actually build a team through the draft (the oldest players drafted in 2011 are now just 23), but that's the way it works. Here's the current Jets line-up, with new players since 2011 in bold...

Ehlers-Scheifele-Wheeler
Laine-Little-Armia
Connor-Perreault-Stafford
Tanev-Lowry-Dano

Enstrom-Buff
Morrissey-MyersChiarot-Postma

Hellebuyck
Pavelec

11 of those players were drafted since 2011 (including prospects acquired in trades).

The Jets have what is commonly rated as a top 3-5 prospect pool, as they have for the past few years.

Could have to do a bit with American vs Canadian POV. I've noticed many (not all) American fans believing Chevy needs to settle for whatever he can get now and move on and try for the playoffs or at least as close/good as we can.

Jets have sold out the area and season tickets since the team put them on sale (5 years ago). Revenue is no problem here, last time Chipman discussed it we were in the top 10 revenue generating teams in the NHL. Pretty amazing fact considering were new, smallest area in the NHL, made the playoffs once in 5 years (swept), no big lucrative media deals, plus the money we generate largely is Canadian dollar.

Thus there is no big pressure to generate more revenue or to pander to fans or put butts into seats. This management group can do it the right way, not the quick way....which will result in more long term success (like they've started in the first five years). Chipman has taken this approach and has had his GM stick to it, we're not changing now.

 

[aj8000]

lol my blood pressure thats a first thx for the laugh

No problemo

 

[aj8000]

Every time a similar issue comes up the fans of the team in question always argue why things are going their way and everything is fine and there's no pressure.

He's a good young player who isn't playing. There's pressure. WPG will almost certainly not get what they want but they'll get a decent haul.

Maybe maybe not. but that does not stop everyone including myself from speculating and stating such speculation as fact.

Like the Jets will certainly get exactly what they want.

 

[aj8000]

Could have to do a bit with American vs Canadian POV. I've noticed many (not all) American fans believing Chevy needs to settle for whatever he can get now and move on and try for the playoffs or at least as close/good as we can.

Jets have sold out the area and season tickets since the team put them on sale (5 years ago). Revenue is no problem here, last time Chipman discussed it we were in the top 10 revenue generating teams in the NHL. Pretty amazing fact considering were new, smallest area in the NHL, made the playoffs once in 5 years (swept), no big lucrative media deals, plus the money we generate largely is Canadian dollar.

Thus there is no big pressure to generate more revenue or to pander to fans or put butts into seats. This management group can do it the right way, not the quick way....which will result in more long term success (like they've started in the first five years). Chipman has taken this approach and has had his GM stick to it, we're not changing now.

Keep in mind, the Jets and the fans want long term success of this franchise since we do not want a repeat of the Jets 1.0. This in itself makes things different for Winnipeg.

 

[kxx]

Jets can just wait.

Will suck to have another bad season if Morrissey doesn't step up and/or we can't acquire a solid replacement for Trouba but its not like the people won't understand. There's already a narrative (completely unfounded though I wouldn't be surprised at all if its the case) that Trouba wants out of Winnipeg and that is enough for people here to be behind the team no matter how bad we do lol.

Springfield from the Simpsons was partially based on Winnipeg (elements of it) and like Springfield we can be wildly petty with stuff like this lol.

Edit: But we don't have too long. More than one season (if that) and Wheeler, Byfuglien, Little, etc gonna be pissed they are wasting the end of their prime on something like that.

We'll see but there's literally no pressure... yet.

 

[Hunter368]

Keep in mind, the Jets and the fans want long term success of this franchise since we do not want a repeat of the Jets 1.0. This in itself makes things different for Winnipeg.

Agreed, that was my point. Supporting Wheelee point. From the start Chipman and Chevy stated this would be the process, slow in house D&D plan. They're in no rush great chance to set a good example at the same time for any others who might get the sam idea in the future. Chevy is in total control, no hurry.....he will get a very good return or force Trouba to come back and sign a deal (resulting in a trade down the road possibly).

 

[JetsHomer]

Pretty sure that the odds of Trouba being dealt to another Western Conference team is pretty nil.

Pretty sure that the odds that the Jets care about facing Trouba 3x a year vs 2x is pretty much nil

 

[umwoz]

People keep comparing this as if there has been a similar situation in the past 5 years.

Someone please tell me the last time an RFA as coveted as Trouba openly hit the trade market at his age or youner. We're in semi-uncharted territory here. His value will be dictated by demand.