Value of: Trevor Zegras this offseason

[Arthuros]

I'm so tired of these threads popping up, and I blame Seravalli for starting all of this with the Gibson shenanigans. The even more annoying thing is that just by dropping something that has no basis, it sort of becomes self-fulfilling and GMs go "...hey, why not?" and sniff around.

1. Zegras is not being shopped. This is different from being untouchable or not available.
2. (see #1) We are not in a situation where we would be taking a discount to get rid of Zegras.
3. (also #1) We would be looking the same level of value to sort out holes in the lineup (in this case, RHD).
4. Last year's performance is not indicative of his value because he was injured for half the year and learning a new system when he got back (which he was absolutely buying into as witnessed anyone who actually watched him play game in and game out).
5. Positioning by the media (as would be the case for any player) is that Zegras is on the outs with the Ducks, because points 1-4 aren't interesting talking points.
6. (see #5) Playing up all of Zegras' flaws in his game and bringing up perceived locker room problems and perceived conflicts with coach and GM drives offer prices down.
7. Verbeek is listening to offers, even if he isn't seriously considering them. Because that's one of the key responsibilities of a GM.

Think that just about covers it.

 

[Ducks]

HFBoards: "Zegras is not a Pat Verbeek kind of player."

Pat Verbeek: "I think Zegras is going to be a cornerstone of our franchise."

 

[Rooch]

1. Zegras is not being shopped. This is different from being untouchable or not available.

You can't possibly know this. LeBrun asked Verbeek about this directly and Verbeek declined to answer. We have no idea what Verbeek is working on.

 

[McDonald19]

Thought the Ducks want to move Zegras out though?

False narrative from bored hockey media.

 

[Rec T]

I'm so tired of these threads popping up, and I blame Seravalli for starting all of this with the Gibson shenanigans...

Think that just about covers it.

Almost, you forgot one

8. All the speculation/rumors/blatant clickbait articles pretty much 'only' have him going to a major market team ... where all the eyeballs/clicks are. Not once has he been rumored to have, say Columbus interested in him.

 

[Arthuros]

You can't possibly know this. LeBrun asked Verbeek about this directly and Verbeek declined to answer. We have no idea what Verbeek is working on.

If we're going to argue that nobody knows anything until it's done, sure, your guess is as good as mine.

The LeBrun article being bandied about is so vague that you also can't possibly know how LeBrun phrased his question. All he asked based on the Athletic article is for Verbeek to comment on Zegras trade chatter. That is definitely not LeBrun asking him directly if he wants to be traded (I'll concede one thing, no GM should say that they are), but that also isn't even to the level of "I'll hear what you have to say". LeBrun had to corroborate that from "other league sources" in the sentences immediately afterwards in the same paragraph - he can't even commit to HINTING that Verbeek is actively looking to make a deal. If you're going to take LeBrun at his word, you can't conclude anything about the Ducks intentions to trade Zegras.

Guess what, if Zegras was being actively shopped, that would be the first thing out there from credible insiders (of which there are few). Instead we get vague "they're listening " crap from people who don't even cover our team primarily. That would be a juicy headline right there - hell, look at how many pages of speculation have been stirred up because the Ducks are "listening to offers".

Deduction? He's not being shopped.

 

[ohcomeonref]

The team goes as Zegras goes. When he's popping, everything runs through him. Guys circle him for instructions before faceoffs and in practices. He's well liked in the locker room and by fans. He's well spoken and is quick to praise his teammates while downplaying himself. He has gotten high marks from Cronin (a known hard ass) on working on changing his game and being good natured about it. He's a clear leader on the team, despite his youth.

But yeah, Michigan.

 

[Rooch]

Guess what, if Zegras was being actively shopped, that would be the first thing out there from credible insiders (of which there are few). Instead we get vague "they're listening " crap from people who don't even cover our team primarily. That would be a juicy headline right there - hell, look at how many pages of speculation have been stirred up because the Ducks are "listening to offers".

Deduction? He's not being shopped.

Guess what. I've read and respected your posts on here for a long time, but in this case your shoddy reasoning doesn't support your pompous attitude.

I don't trust "insiders"; I trust reporting supported by validation and my own experience, which informs me that experienced people working on a deal don't discuss the deal with reporters unless they want the information leaked. LeBrun asked Verbeek about Zegras directly and Verbeek wouldn't bite:

"And finally, Trevor Zegras trade chatter has resurfaced. Verbeek would not comment on that, but other league sources suggest the Ducks are listening on him and would consider moving him in the right deal. They’re obviously deeper up front, which is why they could afford to move him."

"Other league sources" is bullshit, weak-ass reporting. LeBrun could invent anything he thinks will get him clicks and attribute it to "other league sources." And "suggest" isn't "said." It's an empty word in this use. From a legitimacy standpoint, "other league sources suggest..." might just as well be "There are small green chipmunks living in my cheeks and they told me the Ducks are trading Zegras to Carolina for some magic beans." LeBrun has to justify his "reporting" with clicks, and the best way to do that is to very strongly imply a trade rumor where there isn't one and attribute that rumor to some entity that can't be traced.

We know nothing. Absolutely nothing.

 

[Arthuros]

Guess what. I've read and respected your posts on here for a long time, but in this case your shoddy reasoning doesn't support your pompous attitude.

I don't trust "insiders"; I trust reporting supported by validation and my own experience, which informs me that experienced people working on a deal don't discuss the deal with reporters unless they want the information leaked. LeBrun asked Verbeek about Zegras directly and Verbeek wouldn't bite:

"And finally, Trevor Zegras trade chatter has resurfaced. Verbeek would not comment on that, but other league sources suggest the Ducks are listening on him and would consider moving him in the right deal. They’re obviously deeper up front, which is why they could afford to move him."

"Other league sources" is bullshit, weak-ass reporting. LeBrun could invent anything he thinks will get him clicks and attribute it to "other league sources." And "suggest" isn't "said." It's an empty word in this use. From a legitimacy standpoint, "other league sources suggest..." might just as well be "There are small green chipmunks living in my cheeks and they told me the Ducks are trading Zegras to Carolina for some magic beans." LeBrun has to justify his "reporting" with clicks, and the best way to do that is to very strongly imply a trade rumor where there isn't one and attribute that rumor to some entity that can't be traced.

We know nothing. Absolutely nothing.

Agree to disagree, because it seems like we have different beginning "stances" and we're differing in how to interpret the big nothing burger the fluff words that are being used.

My stance on this is until proven otherwise, Zegras isn't being shopped. It would be in the interest of the team who wants to acquire Zegras to leak that Zegras is being shopped, because that would tank the trade value they need to give up. Given that we haven't heard about credible leaks, then either the team isn't acting in their best interest (possible) or there's nothing to leak.

I do not see anything definitive to what LeBrun or what any other insider is saying, so I'm not changed from my stance that Zegras isn't being shopped. Given that he isn't being shopped (which is an opinion being shared by most Ducks fans in here), these discussions will pretty much go nowhere from most Ducks fans' POV, because most of the "offers" in here are garbage.

Your stance is that because we haven't heard anything concrete, we can't rule out that Zegras is being shopped. More unbiased I suppose, but I don't see why we would be up for trades assuming that he is being shopped, besides just having a discussion about how Zegras being traded for below market value.

So, agree to disagree.

 

[tomd]

Probably time to take a break on this one until new info emerges...

 

[darkwingduck]

As a Ducks Fan, I would like to keep Zegras. Thank you for your time.

 

[Vipers31]

People are lazy and refuse to think in other terms than superficial tropes, and with Zegras they see the talent (michigan), so they go with classic „super-talented, but lazy and self-centered“ cliché, despite no current or former coach or teammate of his having anything but praise for his drive and willingness to work on less-developed areas of his game. It’s just boringly dumb.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

The team goes as Zegras goes. When he's popping, everything runs through him. Guys circle him for instructions before faceoffs and in practices. He's well liked in the locker room and by fans. He's well spoken and is quick to praise his teammates while downplaying himself. He has gotten high marks from Cronin (a known hard ass) on working on changing his game and being good natured about it. He's a clear leader on the team, despite his youth.

But yeah, Michigan.

I have the internet, so I suppose I could spin any player using that info. with those arguments.

He is a creative player, but he does (from what I've seen) play on his own team sometimes. For some fans, he does this too often. That is why there is so much debate here.

 

[Gliff]

I have the internet, so I suppose I could spin any player using that info. with those arguments.

He is a creative player, but he does (from what I've seen) play on his own team sometimes. For some fans, he does this too often. That is why there is so much debate here.

As in he is a puck hog?

Lol if that’s what you are saying I am honestly flabbergasted.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

People are lazy and refuse to think in other terms than superficial tropes, and with Zegras they see the talent (michigan), so they go with classic „super-talented, but lazy and self-centered“ cliché, despite no current or former coach or teammate of his having anything but praise for his drive and willingness to work on less-developed areas of his game. It’s just boringly dumb.

If you have good reason to support him, then why be so immature, lazy, and dismissive?

As in he is a puck hog?

Lol if that’s what you are saying I am honestly flabbergasted.

You're having a debate with someone else.

If I posted the words "puck hog", then quote me. Don't quote me if your intention is to argue with someone else.

 

[Arthuros]

If you have good reason to support him, then why be so immature, lazy, and dismissive?

Reasons to keep Zegras:

The Michigan

Reasons to trade Zegras:

Everything else

If you have good reason to criticize him, then why be so immature, lazy and dismissive?

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Sorry. I'm not going to raise the rules of the hf site, and what it looks like to have a different opinion. You're going to have to deal with it.

If you have good reason to criticize him, then why be so immature, lazy and dismissive?

The NHL needs Zegras. I'll come up with a trade proposal soon that will be to your liking. It will include future considerations.

 

[lanceuppercut75]

Any chance that Anaheim would look at

Ryan Pulock + #20 + third piece
for
Trevor Zegras + #31

 

[anezthes]

Ryan Pulock + #20 + third piece
for
Trevor Zegras + #31

No.

 

[lanceuppercut75]

No.

Why? Pulock a few years too old?

 

[Vipers31]

Why? Pulock a few years too old?

Yep. Doesn’t fit the age-group of the core and it’s timeline for being able to compete and hopefully eventually contend. I mean, they’ll not refrain from bringing in guys his age to support the younger players, but not at the expense of core guys, which Zegras is still very much a part of, despite any rumored availability (in exchange for other estimated core pieces).

 

[Gliff]

If you have good reason to support him, then why be so immature, lazy, and dismissive?


You're having a debate with someone else.

If I posted the words "puck hog", then quote me. Don't quote me if your intention is to argue with someone else.

Please explain what "plays on his own team" means then.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Please explain what "plays on his own team" means then.

Meh when he gets frustrated he takes selfish penalties or is guilty of trying to do too much on his own…. But I don’t necessarily think it’s an issue, just part of his game that needs maturing.

Def not some sort of red flag/ reason to devalue him as the poster you arguing might suggest

 

[Habs Halifax]

Zegras could break out to do that thing he’s already done twice.

Not the break out I was talking about. A break out would be 60-80 or more points. Another season in the 60's doesn't count as breakout. More like a rebound after his rough season last year.

What happens if his season he had last year continues? Impossible right?

Z "breaks out" and hits 60+ points for the 3rd time in his career?

60-80+. Stop trying to be funny.

I mean in his health my stretch of the season he looked fine, unfortunately in hockey injuries happen.

Teams will gamble on a young center with upside…. The question is how much will they gamble and how high is pvs ask… all we know really is Montreal has been interested and has been for some time

And it sounds like Anaheim asked for Reinbacher, guhle 5 with +

If that is the asking price, Habs are out. I doubt this info was leaked in terms of what the asking price is or what the conversations are.

Habs are likely trying to find other pieces to make it work and Ducks are open to more dialog. That's what I see happening. Might work, might not.

 

[duckpuck]

Not the break out I was talking about. A break out would be 60-80 or more points. Another season in the 60's doesn't count as breakout. More like a rebound after his rough season last year.

What happens if his season he had last year continues? Impossible right?



60-80+. Stop trying to be funny.



If that is the asking price, Habs are out. I doubt this info was leaked in terms of what the asking price is or what the conversations are.

Habs are likely trying to find other pieces to make it work and Ducks are open to more dialog. That's what I see happening. Might work, might not.

Zegras broke his ankle on a freak play and missed most of the season due to that. He also missed time due another injury and had a slow start, all of which seemed to be tied to his contract hold out.

Could injuries happen again? Sure. But that is a risk for any player. When he came back, he had 10 points in the final 13 games. That was playing on an awful ducks team depleted by injuries and players traded at the deadline (i.e., he didn't have top linemates).

Anything is possible. But you're focusing on the least likely scenario and suggesting the Zegras should be traded with his value determined on that basis (while ignoring the strong finish to the season). There is literally no reason for the ducks to value Zegras that, particularly given that Zegras is signed for two more years and is then a RFA.