Trevor Timmins Part II

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montreal

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Mar 21, 2002
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Serious question because some of you follow this closely.

It's nice to see McCarron and Scherbak progressing but beyond that...

Are there other forward prospects who are close to helping the Habs or is the cupboard pretty bare?

very bare outside of Lekhonen/McCarron/Scherbak/Hudon. Bitten who knows there might be something there. DLR I think can be a solid 4th liner. I like Jake Evans so we'll see what happens when he turns pro. Addison we'll have a better idea next year when he turns pro.

One of the reasons I ask is because if the Habs make a trade here before the deadline, someone like Lekhonen or Scherbak could be on the move. (I don't see them trading McCarron).

Ghetto, Hudon and De La Rose all have a ways to go from what I have seen if they are ever to become NHL players.

I believe all three are in the last year of their entry deals so we'll see who they still believe in.

Ghetto needs waivers now to go back, Hudon, DLR next year will need to clear waivers.
 

Chili

Time passes when you're not looking
Jun 10, 2004
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Ghetto needs waivers now to go back, Hudon, DLR next year will need to clear waivers.

When they didn't resign Dietz and others last summer it was a reminder the small window they have to make a impression that they will develop into an NHL player.

I'd be surprised if they resign Andrighetto after the season, they were already prepared to lose him for nothing. I guess we'll find out on the some others next summer.
 

montreal

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When they didn't resign Dietz and others last summer it was a reminder the small window they have to make a impression that they will develop into an NHL player.

I'd be surprised if they resign Andrighetto after the season, they were already prepared to lose him for nothing. I guess we'll find out on the some others next summer.

the one thing Ghetto has going for him is he would be cheap depth to have around in the AHL in case of injuries as we will likely be up against the cap hard again. Hard to say what will happen by the trade deadline, expansion draft, off-season and then training camp. We should lose some bodies, the question is how many and who do we replace them with. It's not looking good for Ghetto but he does have NHL speed and good shot, just needs to figure out how to get it done at the NHL level while not hurting his team without the puck.
 

Chili

Time passes when you're not looking
Jun 10, 2004
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the one thing Ghetto has going for him is he would be cheap depth to have around in the AHL in case of injuries as we will likely be up against the cap hard again. Hard to say what will happen by the trade deadline, expansion draft, off-season and then training camp. We should lose some bodies, the question is how many and who do we replace them with. It's not looking good for Ghetto but he does have NHL speed and good shot, just needs to figure out how to get it done at the NHL level while not hurting his team without the puck.

Based on the desperation that Andrighetto played with the other night, I think he knows he's playing for a contract now, either with the Habs or someone else.

My own take is that Therrien is not a fan of Carr, Andrighetto or Hudon but he does like De La Rose.

Your point on cheap depth is well taken and the expansion angle will mean less talent available next summer.

In my opinion they should have let Vegas draft some players last summer and have an AHL team this season too. Or at least sign a few players and loan them out, if they wanted to. I.e. give them a bit of a head start considering how long it takes to develop players.
 

Sorinth

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Jan 18, 2013
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Based on the desperation that Andrighetto played with the other night, I think he knows he's playing for a contract now, either with the Habs or someone else.

My own take is that Therrien is not a fan of Carr, Andrighetto or Hudon but he does like De La Rose.

Your point on cheap depth is well taken and the expansion angle will mean less talent available next summer.

In my opinion they should have let Vegas draft some players last summer and have an AHL team this season too. Or at least sign a few players and loan them out, if they wanted to. I.e. give them a bit of a head start considering how long it takes to develop players.

There are plenty of AHL players they can sign to fill out their AHL team. The biggest problem is that they don't have any prospects at all, so if we assume the average prospect takes 4-5 years after drafting before being ready for the NHL, then they'll have some depth issues for the next few years as they will have to either use career AHLers or cheap UFAs.

It's one reason they will be probably be very interested in trading for prospects to select/not select certain players as part of the expansion draft.
 

jaffy27

From Russia wth Pain
Nov 18, 2007
25,562
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Just a moronic selection

Better off skipping the pick.

A tad harsh no. What was he, 6th round? Hardly moronic, especially when you consider he was only picked 6 months ago. This kid still has tons of time to put it together.

You want moronic.....try Leafs in the 1st round with Biggs

How about the Rangers with McCilrath at 10th overall?
 

Adam Michaels

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Jun 12, 2016
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Montreal
According to the article below, if the 2014 draft was done again, Scherbak would move up 5 spots. I guess we drafted well.

http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/redraft/2014/

I remember watching the draft live. As soon as Habs selected Scherbak, the analysts quickly noted that he has the skill set to be higher in the draft (not by much granted). But the Russian factor back in 2014 turned a lot of teams off (due to the KHL). He was the first Russian selected that year and the only one of two selected in that first round.

The analysts also noted that the Habs aren't afraid of selecting Russians the way some other teams are because of the Markovs and Emelins and at the time a Galchenyuk who had finished only his second season.

And I think it's safe to say today, we have a deep pool of Russians in the Habs organization (Markov, Emelin, Galchenyuk, Radulov, Scherbak, Sergachev) as well as Bergevin going after Panarin and the current rumours surrounding Shipachev and Dadonov to MTL next year.
 

montreal

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Mar 21, 2002
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And I think it's safe to say today, we have a deep pool of Russians in the Habs organization (Markov, Emelin, Galchenyuk, Radulov, Scherbak, Sergachev) as well as Bergevin going after Panarin and the current rumours surrounding Shipachev and Dadonov to MTL next year.

Maxim Trunev is having a career year in the KHL, he's got almost as many goals this season as he last two combined. Not that I expect him to ever come over, he's 26 so he might just want to stay in the KHL now that he's making a name for himself since it's just the 2nd time in his KHL career that he's appeared in 49 games despite being in the league since he was 18. He's 2nd on his team in goals and points.
 

euhchepas

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Jan 16, 2015
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He assumes that MB will stop working to improve the team.

In three years, I see:
Price
Sergachev-Weber
Beaulieu-Petry
XXX/Mete/Nesterov-Juulsen
+ a few other D-Men (Pateryn. Lernout, Bourque, etc.)

Radulov-Galchenyuk-Pacioretty-Gallacher-Shaw-Lehkonen-Byron-Scherback-McCaron-Danault can supply top-9.
That is a pretty good list of 10 players to build a top-9.

Then you have wild cards: Reway-DeLaRose-Hudon-Vejdemo-Bitten-Evans-Bradley-Addison.
So that is 8 more players.

Almost all these 18 players will play in NHL at least 200 games.
Markov should be gone but he may stick around for three years as he is in good shape.
Emelin should be gone as Sergachev and Juulsen will bring their physical game to our team for a lower SCap.

With MB management team, we will probably get a few more players via trade/waivers.
Plus we can probably sign one or two UFA.

lower your expectations
Reway may never play professional hockey again. We would be lucky if he's AHL level when he comes back
Vejdemo is having a terrible season in the 2nd tier league in sweden
Evans Bradley and Addison are long shot at ever being a 4th liner
De la Rose is probably a most a 4th liner
Hudon doesn't have good speed wich is crutial for small NHL players, 50/50 at making it at most
Bitten is the only one who really looks great
 

montreal

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Mar 21, 2002
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lower your expectations
Reway may never play professional hockey again. We would be lucky if he's AHL level when he comes back
Vejdemo is having a terrible season in the 2nd tier league in sweden
Evans Bradley and Addison are long shot at ever being a 4th liner
De la Rose is probably a most a 4th liner
Hudon doesn't have good speed wich is crutial for small NHL players, 50/50 at making it at most
Bitten is the only one who really looks great

Vejdemo is in the SHL not the 2nd league.

I wouldn't say Evans is a long shot, right now we need to see how he adjusts to the AHL and go from there.
 

euhchepas

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Jan 16, 2015
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Vejdemo is in the SHL not the 2nd league.

I wouldn't say Evans is a long shot, right now we need to see how he adjusts to the AHL and go from there.

my bad for Vejdemo I tought he was in the 2nd league last year and I saw he was still on the same team so I made a wrong statement.

Evans isn't anything special, a maybe at making the nhl... nowere near the at least 200 nhl games

Bitten is the only non pro prospect who has a realistic shot at being a top 9 foward
 

montreal

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my bad for Vejdemo I tought he was in the 2nd league last year and I saw he was still on the same team so I made a wrong statement.

Evans isn't anything special, a maybe at making the nhl... nowere near the at least 200 nhl games

Bitten is the only non pro prospect who has a realistic shot at being a top 9 foward

impressive to just know the future of a prospect.
 

WhiskeySeven*

Expect the expected
Jun 17, 2007
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Drafting and Development Since 2012

Of the 2012 draft, coming up to FIVE years ago, only 3rd overall Alex Galchenyuk made the NHL. Other picks with 0 games: Collberg, Thrower, Bozon, Vail, and Nystrom. Hudon has played 6 games.

Of the 2013 draft, coming up to FOUR years ago, McCarron has 6 pts in 35 games and still not an NHL player. De la Rose has 7 points in 64 games (0.10ppg) and is not yet an NHL player (15 points in AHL this year. 1 point in 22 NHL games last year, 14 points in 34 AHL games last year). Artturi Lehkonen started this season with the Habs (16 pts in 46 games). Sven Andrighetto has 28 pts in 79 games and is still not an established NHL player. Fucale (G), Crisp, Reway, and Gregoire have 0 NHL games played.

Of the 2014, 2015, and 2016 drafts - only Scherbak played 3 games (1 pt), Sergachev played 3 games (0 pt), and Lernout played 1 game (0 pt).

My thoughts:

I think the Habs organisation should revamp and overhaul the amateur scouting, drafting, and development. I don't think any one person should be blamed but it's damn near unacceptable to have only 3rd overall Galchenyuk be the only established NHLer in FIVE years of drafting and development. I have high hopes for Lehkonen , Juulsen, and Sergachev. Not much hope for any of the others, including McCarron and Scherbak - but I'm open to discussion and being persuaded if anyone has insight to offer.
 

Kojo

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Nov 22, 2013
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When you constantly pick 20th or worse you're bound to make mistakes. Additionally when you don't have second round picks it's crippling. Collberg got us a good player at the trade deadline.
 

Spearmint Rhino

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Sep 17, 2013
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Montreal suffers from that miraculous state of half pregnancy

Rarely crappy enough to draft can't miss prospects but not good enough to be a serious contender

Given the pressure to win that comes from the most passionate fanbase in North American Pro sports we've never really ever given kids an opportunity to sink AND swim

Around the league other team's kids are given every opportunity to succeed and allowed to fail on occasion, our kids are sheltered, miscast, and usually stuck behind safe vets with low ceilings and only hope is to get a shot as an injury replacement, Detroit did the same thing and they're feeling the pain from that now as their succession plan has failed by overcooking the prospects and reacting by trying to fill the gap with a mess of overpaid UFAs

I don't know if Montreal is trying to protect this myth of a winning tradition that has faded greatly in the last 2 decades or they're just trying to protect their jobs at this moment in time but development is an after thought at the NHL level and and I have no faith in Sylvain in the minors
 

Adam Michaels

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Jun 12, 2016
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I would like to see what kind of record of drafting and developing the rest of the league has beginning in 2012. I don't think you can name many teams who have a part of their current roster filled with their draftees since 2012.

- Lehkonen is proving to have been a good draft choice. However, and this is probably a good thing, he wasn't developed in the Habs system. But you can watch him play and confidently say he's a full-time NHLer. It does help that he was playing in a men's senior league for the last few years. We can't do that with all of our draft choices. But I don't think you can argue against that draft choice.

- McCarron is also a good choice. He's a long-term project because it's longer for a kid to grow into his frame when he's 21 years old at 6'5" and 230lbs. The key with him is that he has progressed every year since his draft. And, again at 21, he's really close to becoming a full-time NHLer.

- Reway shouldn't be mentioned in the list to show how bad Habs draft and develop because serious health problems stopped him from having the chance to prove himself. He had openly said before being sidelined that it's Montreal or St. John's for him. So we are really missing out on him. But last year in the Swiss League, he was on a similar production pace as Auston Matthews before he got a concussion. He has also spent the last few seasons playing against men. And like Lehkonen, that could mean he has a leg up on other prospects and could become a full-time NHLer quicker.

- Hudon is a good draft choice (especially for a 5th Rounder) and as we can see the last few AHL seasons, he's really good offensively. And the few games he's played in the NHL, he looks like someone who can hang in the majors. This one confuses me because I think he belongs in the NHL. So there's got to be something the organization sees that we don't. But from my POV, I'm stumped as to why Hudon isn't a full-time NHLer yet because he sure looks like one.

- Scherbak could prove to be a real good choice as well. He's only a 2nd year pro. He might be one of those players that takes a few years before he cracks the NHL. As is the case with late 1st rounders and later draft choices, their path to the NHL isn't as quick as let's say a top-10 or top-15 draft choice. This isn't exclusive to the Habs. Scherbak might need another year or two in the AHL before he cracks the NHL. But when he does, he could be someone well worth the wait.

- I wouldn't count 2015 and 2016 draft picks here yet because aside from Sergachev (a top-10 pick), they're all too young to be in the AHL. We can't know w how they will pan out in the pro game. Next year, we'll have Juulsen in Laval. And if MB offers them an ELC, we will also have Bourque, Bradley, Addison, and Evans. And hopefully Reway can be healthy enough to pursue his career here.

There are names on your list that definitely prove that they made bad choices in the draft. And some that were either badly developed or the players themselves just don't have what it takes to grow as pros.

I personally don't think we're as bad as some might think in the drafting. I actually think under Bergevin, the Habs have been making some good choices no matter what the round is. I don't think the amateur scouts are the issue. If there is a part of the organization that probably needs to be changed it's the development department.

But you need to look at what the trend is in the rest of the NHL to get a better idea if Montreal has a problem or not. Because I have an inkling that aside from teams that continually tanked for years (e.g. Edmonton, Toronto, and Buffalo), I don't think you will find many teams that have part of their current line-up made up of choices since 2012.
 

montreal

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Mar 21, 2002
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If you look at the 2013 draft from the 20th overall pick and on, here's the leaders in games played,

Andre Burakovsky 183 games (23rd overall)
Anthony Duclair 140 (80th overall)
Andrew Copp 121 (104th overall)
Brett Pesce 121 (66th overall)
Marko Dano 97 (27th overall)
Sven Andrighetto 79 (86th overall)
Mattias Janmark 73 (79th overall)
Jacob De La Rose 64 (34th overall)


So the Habs have 2 of the top 8 in games played that were drafted 20th overall or later. Lehkonen at 46 games and counting plus McCarron at 35. Our 2013 draft have played 227 games after tonight if Lehkonen/Ghetto/McCarron all play.
 

Goldenhands

Slaf_The_Great
Aug 21, 2016
10,233
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Our draft have been terrible since well before 2012. Since 2007 was our last good draft.

The 2007 draft wasnt just good, it was insanely great! When you draft 2 no.1 defensemen + a first line wingers in the same draft, thats like winning the jackpot, especially when none of them were drafted top 10.. Since 2007 we drafted only twice in the top 10, last draft we got Sergachev with the 9th pick and in 2012 Galchenyuk with the third OV pick in what was one of the worst draft in the history, if you take a look at that first round, only Forsberg is close to Galchenyuk in term of value..

If you take a look at the other drafts, most of the times we drafted extremmely low, but Timmins still managed to draft some good players in MCcarron, Juulsen, Beaulieu.. Also, since 2007 we rarely drafted in the second round, what make Timmins' job pretty harder but most years Timmins is drafting us NHLers in the making and I think he is doing a pretty good job personally.. I think the 2013 draft looks very promising too, alot of potential NHLers..
 
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