Player Discussion Trent Frederic II

[Montecristo]

with playing a role on the club and fitting a need.

Draft position to me isnt be all or end all. Never has.

gotcha. I think there can be 2 differing viewpoints in regards to a player. For instance, if he was taken 1st overall and developed into a contributing member of a stanley cup championship team as a 4th line grinder. Id consider him to be a success. Id also likely consider the scouting department a failure for identifying a 4th liner as a #1 pick

 

[rocketdan9]

frederics game is like max sauve. But hopefully without the injuries

Max who?

Didnt even play 5 nhl games lol

 

[UncleRico]

If he ends up being a 20 point Shawn Thornton type I’ll be happy withthat.

Problem is you draft those guys in the 3rd round not the first. You don’t build championship teams drafting fourth line players in the the first round. Even if it’s the end of the first round.

 

[Gee Wally]

Problem is you draft those guys in the 3rd round not the first. You don’t build championship teams drafting fourth line players in the the first round. Even if it’s the end of the first round.

I dont draft anybody.

 

[UncleRico]

I dont draft anybody.

Sorry NHL trams don’t build championship rosters by drafting fourth liners in the first round and if teams do rheu better be nailing late round picks like tampa is with point, cirelli, palat and further filling it out with players like Colton, Joseph, etc which the bruins aren’t doing to that degree either. At least under Sweeney that is.

 

[Gee Wally]

Sorry NHL trams don’t build championship rosters by drafting fourth liners in the first round and if teams do rheu better be nailing late round picks like tampa is with point, cirelli, palat and further filling it out with players like Colton, Joseph, etc which the bruins aren’t doing to that degree either. At least under Sweeney that is.

Generally I agree. Thats on the Front office.
TF to me isnt that. Like I said regardless to me if he can contribute then Im ok . There are other needs.

I date back to a time when there wasnt a draft. So to me the draft is something that goes into building a team. Sure.
But Ive also seen low picks, non drafted players and free agents be incredibly valuable to the overall.

I look at a player as to how they can fit be it playing or dealt.
Where they were picked or how much paid even, thats on the organization.

 

[arider1990]

Problem is you draft those guys in the 3rd round not the first. You don’t build championship teams drafting fourth line players in the the first round. Even if it’s the end of the first round.

You do realize in the past 10 drafts before Frederic only 1 player picked at 29 is anything more than a 4th liner. Hell only 3 players out of the 10 are in the NHL. So this whole you don't draft 4th liners in the first round is complete bullshit. Especially when you pick with the last couple of picks in the round.

 

[UncleRico]

You do realize in the past 10 drafts before Frederic only 1 player picked at 29 is anything more than a 4th liner. Hell only 3 players out of the 10 are in the NHL. So this whole you don't draft 4th liners in the first round is complete bullshit. Especially when you pick with the last couple of picks in the round.

Such a straw man argument using just the 29th pick. There’s been plenty of guys selected after those guys who have had great careers. There’s 20 guys drafted after Frederic in the 2016 draft who have produced more than Frederic in that draft and quite a few who are top 9 guys

 

[arider1990]

Such a straw man argument using just the 29th pick. There’s been plenty of guys selected after those guys who have had great careers. There’s 20 guys drafted after Frederic in the 2016 draft who have produced more than Frederic in that draft and quite a few who are top 9 guys

You apparently don’t know what the whole straw man argument is. But I pointed out to you a great example of why first rounders aren’t guaranteed to be more than a 4th liner which is the exact thing you mentioned. You on the other hand used it perfectly when you pointed out the players drafted in other rounds that have out produced him.

 

[Over the volcano]

Such a straw man argument using just the 29th pick. There’s been plenty of guys selected after those guys who have had great careers. There’s 20 guys drafted after Frederic in the 2016 draft who have produced more than Frederic in that draft and quite a few who are top 9 guys

Sure, there are plenty of guys picked before and after him who've produced less too, and quite a few who arent in the NHL at all. Not sure why you're keep grinding at this particular axe.

 

[Colt.45Orr]

Frederic is nothing like Wagner.

Wagner is all hustle and nowhere to go. Wagner rushes everything and pushes pucks at the net. He was a classic high energy 4th liner. That's what Blidh is.

Frederic is calm, he plays with his head up when he carries the puck and he makes possession plays. He made 3 area passes in pre-season to send Nosek in alone. Have you ever seen Wagner make an area pass? Or even a saucer pass for that matter?

Exactly right.

 

[FREDERIC82FAN]

[QUOTE="Gee Wally, post with playing a role on the club and fitting a need.

Draft position to me isnt be all or end all. Never has.[/QUOTE]

This Bear's repeating.

 

[b in vancouver]

Problem is you draft those guys in the 3rd round not the first. You don’t build championship teams drafting fourth line players in the the first round. Even if it’s the end of the first round.

Unreal expectations are simply unreal. There's great draft years and teams hit the jackpot with later picks but if you can find a guy who plays 200 games on the 3rd or 4th line in the late 1st, that's not something to whine about.

I've brought this up before. Compare Boston to the other yearly competitive teams over the past decade like Washington and Pittsburgh and take a look at who they've drafted since '14.
Vrana, Siegenthaler and Samsonov for the Caps. Not one player has played double digit games that was drafted since '15.
Sprong, Simon and Kapanen for the Pens. Not one player has played double digit games that was drafted since '15

The Bruins have drafted Pastrnak, Donato, Heinen, Bjork, DeBrusk, Carlo, Lauzon, McAvoy, Frederic, Lindgren, Vaakaneinen, Studnicka, Swayman, Zboril that have all played double digit games.

Temper your expectations on what teams get. Maybe you're holding onto the 1st round of the '15 draft or they don't pick your favourite - but this team has been damn good at finding talent in the draft when compared to other good teams - and half of the bad teams. Sure they've traded a bunch away but...

Lindgren - McAvoy
Lauzon - Carlo
Vaakanein - Zboril
Swayman

DeBrusk - Studnicka - Pastrnak
Heinen - Frederic - Bjork
Donato

Is pretty damn good when you compare it to most teams.

 

[UncleRico]

You apparently don’t know what the whole straw man argument is. But I pointed out to you a great example of why first rounders aren’t guaranteed to be more than a 4th liner which is the exact thing you mentioned. You on the other hand used it perfectly when you pointed out the players drafted in other rounds that have out produced him.

Ahh yes, comparing players in other drafts drafted at 29th as opposed to comparing a player drafted in the same year to those drafted behind him who were actually available to be drafted. Interesting!

 

[UncleRico]

Sure, there are plenty of guys picked before and after him who've produced less too, and quite a few who arent in the NHL at all. Not sure why you're keep grinding at this particular axe.

Yes and those teams that drafted worse players earlier than players vastly outperforming the player they drafted should rightfully be called out too.

Other teams also made just as terrible picks does not make it alright for the bruins. Those picks are also set backs for those teams as well in their path to becoming a championship team.

 

[UncleRico]

Unreal expectations are simply unreal. There's great draft years and teams hit the jackpot with later picks but if you can find a guy who plays 200 games on the 3rd or 4th line in the late 1st, that's not something to whine about.

I've brought this up before. Compare Boston to the other yearly competitive teams over the past decade like Washington and Pittsburgh and take a look at who they've drafted since '14.
Vrana, Siegenthaler and Samsonov for the Caps. Not one player has played double digit games that was drafted since '15.
Sprong, Simon and Kapanen for the Pens. Not one player has played double digit games that was drafted since '15

The Bruins have drafted Pastrnak, Donato, Heinen, Bjork, DeBrusk, Carlo, Lauzon, McAvoy, Frederic, Lindgren, Vaakaneinen, Studnicka, Swayman, Zboril that have all played double digit games.

Temper your expectations on what teams get. Maybe you're holding onto the 1st round of the '15 draft or they don't pick your favourite - but this team has been damn good at finding talent in the draft when compared to other good teams - and half of the bad teams. Sure they've traded a bunch away but...

Lindgren - McAvoy
Lauzon - Carlo
Vaakanein - Zboril
Swayman

DeBrusk - Studnicka - Pastrnak
Heinen - Frederic - Bjork
Donato

Is pretty damn good when you compare it to most teams.

If Frederic ever becomes a third line regular I’ll eat crow gladly. Idk people may be happy drafting fourth liners in the first round, but it’s simply not good enough.

This is a huge reason why under Sweeney the bruins have one of the most expensive third lines in hockey, because they can’t fill the 3rd line with players they drafted unless it’s a top 15 underperforming draft pick like Debrusk. Tho I do have high expectations for a Debrusk turnaround just not going to say he’s there yet after last season.

 

[Gee Wally]

If Frederic ever becomes a third line regular I’ll eat crow gladly. Idk people may be happy drafting fourth liners in the first round, but it’s simply not good enough.

This is a huge reason why under Sweeney the bruins have one of the most expensive third lines in hockey, because they can’t fill the 3rd line with players they drafted unless it’s a top 15 underperforming draft pick like Debrusk. Tho I do have high expectations for a Debrusk turnaround just not going to say he’s there yet after last season.

then take it to the Sweeney management thread or Past draft threads.
This is player discussion.
Thanks.

 

[b in vancouver]

If Frederic ever becomes a third line regular I’ll eat crow gladly. Idk people may be happy drafting fourth liners in the first round, but it’s simply not good enough.

This is a huge reason why under Sweeney the bruins have one of the most expensive third lines in hockey, because they can’t fill the 3rd line with players they drafted unless it’s a top 15 underperforming draft pick like Debrusk. Tho I do have high expectations for a Debrusk turnaround just not going to say he’s there yet after last season.

I'm going to mention that teams looking for The Cup also trade kids and picks away. Heinen, Bjork and Donato (Coyle, Smith, Kase) - along with DeBrusk, Frederic and Studnicka. You could put together a big chunk of a bottom 6 there.
There's only so many holes you can fix, especially when drafting late and being a Cup contending team. Guys aren't going to get their automatic roster spot either. Good teams can afford to develop their players. It's how The Bruins stay good and why their prospects have value in trade.

 

[b in vancouver]

then take it to the Sweeney management thread or Past draft threads.
This is player discussion.
Thanks.

I like him as a player.

 

[Colt.45Orr]

then take it to the Sweeney management thread or Past draft threads.
This is player discussion.
Thanks.

Exactly right! What a bunch of shit to have read about a guy who has no control over where he gets drafted.

As for the player himself, we're going to see him be more valuable in chippy games against huge physical guys like Chariot and Anderson on the Habs... he's now the only Bruin left who wouldn't get KO'd engaging those guys. Foligno as well maybe, but he's not that weight division at his age either.

 

[UncleRico]

Exactly right! What a bunch of shit to have read about a guy who has no control over where he gets drafted.

As for the player himself, we're going to see him be more valuable in chippy games against huge physical guys like Chariot and Anderson on the Habs... he's now the only Bruin left who wouldn't get KO'd engaging those guys. Foligno as well maybe, but he's not that weight division at his age either.

Well let’s hope to turns his game up when we are facing huge physical teams because saturday might he had the chance to insert his dominance and did nothing offensively, defensively and didn’t play physical. Probably a reason he only played 7 minutes. Would have been nice to see him answer to Jamie Benn for being a pest all night and possibly dinging up bergeron early in the game.

 

[Over the volcano]

Well let’s hope to turns his game up when we are facing huge physical teams because saturday might he had the chance to insert his dominance and did nothing offensively, defensively and didn’t play physical. Probably a reason he only played 7 minutes. Would have been nice to see him answer to Jamie Benn for being a pest all night and possibly dinging up bergeron early in the game.

Disagree

 

[Beesfan]

We’ll agree to disagree then. I see a player who has no idea what to do when the puck is on his stick most of the time. Looks like a very replaceable player at the moment. If he wasn’t drafted in the 1st round he wouldn’t have nearly this much hype. As others have said, if he can be a Thornton-esque presence on the 4th line, then I’d be happy with that. I don’t think he’s consistently engaged enough to do that but it’s still early in his young career

I agree with the bolded. Frederic is still in the lineup in part based on potential. If this is just what he is as a finished product, I'm not sure it is good enough. I am still seeing a player who struggles to mentally process the game, and is not involved enough. He has moments of individual skill, but the puck is rarely on his stick.

For the role he has been caste in this season, I do think he needs to play more physical. It is an element the team is missing, and really only he can provide it. He doesn't need to land huge open ice hits, but he should finish every hit on the forecheck, even if the puck has been moved.

 

[Mick Riddleton]

Stars were targeting Bergy and he got banged up that game. Frederic or someone needs to step in and be like Shawn Thornton, send a message physically. There is no fear without Chara and Miller on the ice and teams will do what they want. Foligno can do it but he is a vet that knows what it takes but he is near the end of his career, it will age him faster. I expect Frederic to be like a Backes/Foligno type of player - support the play and bang and crash hard. They really need a Clutterbuck/Martin type of guy.

Frederic was not bad in that game but he looks like he is killing a penalty 5 on 5. I hope they are not trying to turn him into Kuraly because it kinda looks like that and he does not have that speed. He is not a big open ice hitter, he has value fighting but if no one wants to go with him then its not helping. They have Kuhlman, Lazar and Nosek all energy checkers but not physical. Frederic has the size but needs to take it to another level if he wants to stay. Lets hope he puts it together and grows on the last game.

 

[JEM28]

Such a straw man argument using just the 29th pick. There’s been plenty of guys selected after those guys who have had great careers. There’s 20 guys drafted after Frederic in the 2016 draft who have produced more than Frederic in that draft and quite a few who are top 9 guys

True, but you understand the point being made right? Perhaps a better argument would be, and I don’t have the data, the % of players picked in the last 20% or so of the first round who go on to have longevity and productivity. I’m guessing there’s a huge drop off from the first half of round 1 to say the fifth. And that end of of first round success isn’t much different than second round likelihood of success.

All told you’d expect some very late first rounders to never make an impact. But you’d also expect the FO to hit big on some 2nd rounders, like 37, Carlo, etc.

Gotta look at the whole picture really, but in isolation Freddy at 29 and being where he is at development wise now isn’t an absolute anomaly, just like Carlo being a successful 2nd rounder isn’t. Up for debate for sure though is the FO draft success as a whole.