zeke
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FYI those numbers you responded to did indeed come with Rielly who shoots LEFT playing on the RIGHT.
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FYI those numbers you responded to did indeed come with Rielly who shoots LEFT playing on the RIGHT.
CantLoseWithMatthews
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- Sep 28, 2015
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So are LHD only pairings like Rielly-Muzzin bad, or are LHD only pairings like Rielly-Hainsey a good thing? Seems a bit confusing
Mess
Global Moderator
Leafs defenceman Carl Dahlstrom needs shoulder surgery, will be out six months after an on ice collision the past exhibition game.
Mess
Global Moderator
When possible you want your best players their strong side. Left hand shooting Dman play the Left and RHD perfer the right..
However there is a shortage of RHD in the NHL so sometimes it can't be avoided to play players on their weak side out of necessity. Some players like the Hainsey example have been forced to play their off side and get use to it. TJ Brodie has been forced to play on the right.
However when you see a Leafs depth chart it shown as:
Left Hand Dmen
===========
Rielly (LHD)
Muzzin (LHD)
Giordano (LHD)
Sandin (LHD)
Benn (LHD)
Mete (LHD)
Right Defense
===========
Brodie (LHD) playing right
Holl (RHD)
Liljegren (RHD)
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paulhiggins
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You could play defencemen on their "weak" sides on the power play where they won't have to do as much work in their own ends.
zeke
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One column called "Left Handed Dmen" the other called "Right Defense".
I love you Mess.
I love you Mess.
Mess
Global Moderator
Actually teams switch Dmen positions on the PP because it increases shooting angles with both right and left Dman shooting from the middle. as opposed to shooting from their strong sides next to boards, when manning the point on the PP.
Defensively is where you see the greatest impact of players playing their weak sides and getting the puck out requires backhand vs forehand passes and when pressured by a heavy forecheck with limited time it leads to more turnovers in the Dzone. Off the boards and out is a lot more difficult on the backhand with a curved stick and also breakout passes out of zone on your backhand less accurate and less velocity.
Asking some Dmen to play their off position is like asking people to switch hands and trying writing with your none normal hand and see how different the results are. Or in hockey terms ask players to switch sticks so a lefthand shooting player would use a right hand curved stick and see if there is any noticable drop in their play. Its not natural for a lot of players.
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Honestly, I think Babs was the first one who stressed wanting LHD-RHD combo during the Olympics, the reason was benching Subban or something like that. Prior to that, I really don't recall any coaches or medias alike ever make a big fuss about LHD-RHD combo. However, I do agree that if the player never really played on their off side in their Long NHL Career, it is not really smart to put that player there.
In your same post, you contradict yourself with Hainsey... the D pair of Muzzin-Rielly was working and was broken up... the D pair of Rielly-Hainsey also worked (2 LHD) and was not broken up, seems weird to say this "Most coaches understand a player that shots LEFT like Rielly and Muzzin do are better on their strong side LHD and prefer their natural positions." then mention another LHD-LHD pairing...
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Fogelhund
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Here is some info/a study on handedness and NHL D.
hockey-graphs.com
Quantifying The Importance of Handedness
It seems as if NHL teams are trying harder and harder to strike a balance with respect to the handedness of their defensemen. This idea is substantiated when looking at the falling percentage of av…
hockey-graphs.com
Martin Skoula
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What handedness was Hainsey again? I can't tell because you conveniently only put LHD for Rielly but omitted it for Hainsey after explaining to us how much better defensemen are on their strong side.
CantLoseWithMatthews
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Handedness is just one factor for setting your players up for success, and not exactly the biggest one. In fact, lots of players prefer their off side in the offensive zone so it's not even necessarily a straight downgrade. You also want your best defenseman to have a strong partner and playing with your top forwards, and that matters much more than handedness
WTFMAN99
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I think if you're going to play on your off side, your IQ or agility/skating has to be top notch.
Hainsey was actually a very smart / positionally sound guy.
Brodie works because of his skating, smart player too.
I think overtime, Phaneuf's skating got the better of him. I believe he also suffered a deep skate cut in Calgary, I always wondered if that effected him in the long run.
Rielly's skating should work out okay if he plays RD. He has a year of experience carrying Hunwick so Muzzin will be a nice upgrade.
Hainsey was actually a very smart / positionally sound guy.
Brodie works because of his skating, smart player too.
I think overtime, Phaneuf's skating got the better of him. I believe he also suffered a deep skate cut in Calgary, I always wondered if that effected him in the long run.
Rielly's skating should work out okay if he plays RD. He has a year of experience carrying Hunwick so Muzzin will be a nice upgrade.
Mess
Global Moderator
Leafs experimenting in the preseason is more about D pairings ,and player capabilities rather than building a Muzzin -- Rielly pairing.
Mark Giordano and TJ Brodie was a successful pairing in Calgary so if the Leafs want to try this pairing together than what is left?. Brodie has NHL experience on his off side.,
Justin Holl and Liljegren are the only RHD in the organization and Timothy is hurt, Sandin is a 3rd pairing guy and so is Holl.
So process of elimination what is left?
1st pair: Rielly ------ Muzzin (pairing) ???
2nd pair: Giordano --- Brodie
3rd pair: Sandin ------ Holl
Liljegren (injured)
Leafs only have 1 healthy RHD and they might need to trade Holl to become cap complaint.
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kb
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- Aug 28, 2009
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Who really cares - other than you in your efforts to try to make the GM look bad in every post.?
Imagine that being your life's ambition.....L or R does not matter if the player is willing and comfortable playing there.
zeke
The Dube Abides
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I mean it's not like Rielly is any great shakes defensively on his strong side anyways.
WTFMAN99
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I thought he got a bit better last year, especially after the contract extension.
That being said, you're right. If they do Muzzin-Rielly, who's the go to defensive match up pairing?
I still liked Muzzin-Brodie for that.
I think we need another top 4 RD. I thought Liljegren might get there this year but hernia is a hard injury to return from, might be a 3rd pairing type again.
Holl not the answer, and likely a cap casuality in the early going.
zeke
The Dube Abides
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Tbh I want Muzz-Brodie as the shutdown pair and Gio-Mo vs the secondary matchups.
WTFMAN99
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I thought about that.
Results in a relatively green Sandin-Liljegren if we're ever fully healthy. That did get physically over powered at times last season.
I guess we'd need to see what kind of off-season the 2 of them had at that point.
zeke
The Dube Abides
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Sandin-Lilly was a pretty killer bottom pair last year. Not shocking when you have 2 guys with top pair skillsets down there. They'll most likely be even better this year.
WTFMAN99
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They had times where they were incredibly fast at breaking the puck out but I vividly remember times where they got pinned down. Experience and getting stronger will go a long way.
I suppose if it truly is an issue, you address it at the trade deadline.
Mayfield (yes plz)
Schenn
Weegar
Soucy
Zub (yes plz)
Are some names that could be available, if the pair struggles or Liljegren's hernia is troublesome to return from.
I'll never forget how a guy like Getzlaf gutted it out up to the WCF vs Chicago, had the surgery in the off-season and the next season wasn't himself at all. I'm hoping since Liljegren didn't play through physical hockey and is younger will recover a bit sooner.
Da Cool Rula
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Leaf Rocket
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Obviously you do if you're replying to him.
You spend 3/4 of your posts these days playing the victim any time anyone is critical of Dubas.
My biggest issue with it is obviously that putting our best players in relatively disadvantageous positions is usually the opposite to what you want to do.
Same with the Marner thing he has a great skill set, why f*** with that to play him out of position
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