Training Camp and Preseason thread 2023

[Machinehead]

Honestly, I didn't think Lafreniere looked that bad yesterday, and I'm generally super hard on him.

I thought he was pretty noticeable considering he was playing a new position on a slapdash line that won't exist in real games.

I guess we were expecting complete domination? He's not that and even if he was, he wouldn't do that every game.

And I know what's coming. "He should be motivated yada yada yada..." No. His job on the team is safe. Busting a nut in preseason to show the internet how ready you are is not a motivation for a professional athlete, nor should it be.

My qualms with Lafreniere are based on a few years now of data and observation. I would base absolutely nothing on yesterday's glorified scrimmage.

 

[Rongomania]

A Kreider-Trochek-Kaako line would eat almost every match-up they get. And it's a line that would do very well in terms of balance of who does what. They would own the boards in all zones and it would allow for each player to play to their strengths.

Kreider does his best work at recovering pucks and getting to the net.

Trochek does his best work when transporting pucks and getting to the high slot/net front area.

Kaako does his best work when he has room to facilitate passes in the offensive zone but he doesn't necessarily need to transport the puck there.



Trochek to carry the puck and then he and Kreider retrieve pucks and get to the front of the net while Kaako is the distributor in the offensive zone.

I fully understand the logic. I just think this doesn't maximize his offensive potential.

 

[Machinehead]

I'm sorry but if that shut down line of Kreids/Troch/Kak is a thing.... I've seen it written too many times already.

You're not putting our #2 in a position to succeed offensively. Kreider cannot pass to save his life. And he has that tendency to play with horse blinders on which doesn't nurture Kaks game at all.

*I know Vesey is playing with them but that's even worse. It's about troch centering Kak, he is limited offensively, and I'm not shitting on him, just he has limits dynamically speaking.

I look at it the opposite way. Being on a line with two super grinders who are good players don't really pass well would force Kakko to be the one of facilitates the offense. If he can't, then he can't, and we need to find that out.

We've already seen Kakko preferring to let others take the puck when he's with the skill players. We know what he is in that role and it hasn't put him in a position to produce, even though the lines are effective.

 

[Rongomania]

I look at it the opposite way. Being on a line with two super grinders who are good players don't really pass well would force Kakko to be the one of facilitates the offense. If he can't, then he can't, and we need to find that out.

We've already seen Kakko preferring to let others take the puck when he's with the skill players. We know what he is in that role and it hasn't put him in a position to produce, even though the lines are effective.

I would just like to see him with a better passer than Kreider. Kreider does a lot of things great, passing is absolutely not one of them.

 

[will1066]

Honestly, I didn't think Lafreniere looked that bad yesterday, and I'm generally super hard on him.

I thought he was pretty noticeable considering he was playing a new position on a slapdash line that won't exist in real games.

I guess we were expecting complete domination? He's not that and even if he was, he wouldn't do that every game.

And I know what's coming. "He should be motivated yada yada yada..." No. His job on the team is safe. Busting a nut in preseason to show the internet how ready you are is not a motivation for a professional athlete, nor should it be.

My qualms with Lafreniere are based on a few years now of data and observation. I would base absolutely nothing on yesterday's glorified scrimmage.

I thought he made some nice passes, including two from the right side wall on the power play, that should've resulted in goals. Then the tone today would be drastically different if he had like a pair of assists to show for.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I fully understand the logic. I just think this doesn't maximize his offensive potential.

If Kakko gets power play time, I care nothing about him being on that line.

 

[Rongomania]

If Kakko gets power play time, I care nothing about him being on that line.

Was going to 'compromise post' this exact thing. He's on PP1 with a long leash for once since his rookie year, I can deal.

 

[will1066]

While we're all talking about it here, Lavi -- and Muse -- is actually witnessing stuff first-hand that will allow him to determine the line combos. There's really no need to get upset right now at this early juncture with the line experimentation. Also have to think about whether a guy like Kakko, being heavier and apparently faster, changes his play style from puck lugger who likes to slow down the play to playing at a greater pace and that, in turn, could generate synergies with some of the more dynamic players instead of being deferential as Machinehead noted.

 

[Machinehead]

I would just like to see him with a better passer than Kreider. Kreider does a lot of things great, passing is absolutely not one of them.

Kakko needs to be the one doing the passing. We've seen him with Panarin and we've seen him with Zibanejad. In both cases, he treats the puck like it's diseased.

It's not like he's looking to get open for his own shots, either. He's played 239 games; he's not a shooter at this level.

And then there's the kid line where it's Chytil and that other clown, and unless Chytil is on one of his shooting 6-for-10 binges, who's scoring goals?

I think putting Kakko with goal-scorers and putting the onus on him to be the passer is the way to go. That's what his skillset profiles as.

 

[Rongomania]

Kakko needs to be the one doing the passing. We've seen him with Panarin and we've seen him with Zibanejad. In both cases, he treats the puck like it's diseased.

It's not like he's looking to get open for his own shots, either. He's played 239 games; he's not a shooter at this level.

And then there's the kid line where it's Chytil and that other clown, and unless Chytil is on one of his shooting 6-for-10 binges, who's scoring goals?

I think putting Kakko with goal-scorers and putting the onus on him to be the passer is the way to go. That's what his skillset profiles as.

I just don't think we should close the book on Kakko not being a shooter. And those 239 games came when he was 22 1/2 years old. I'm definitely not giving up on him in that regard.

 

[RGY]

We should trade for Bussi

 

[NYR Viper]

I just don't think we should close the book on Kakko not being a shooter. And those 239 games came when he was 22 1/2 years old. I'm definitely not giving up on him in that regard.

Trochek isn't a bad passer.

The idea for that line woul dbe for Trochek and Kreider to create room and wreak havoc in and around the net. Both of those guys are very good within 10-12' from the goal mouth and they know how to get open.

Kaako needs the puck. He does good things with the puck when he has it. For me, the reason he doesn't gel at all with Panarin is that Panarin demands the puck and Kaako isn't as well versed in finding open lanes and spots to shoot from. it's not that he can't do it. It just hasn't been his game. His game is to suck guys to him, control the puck and distribute.

 

[Rongomania]

Trochek isn't a bad passer.

The idea for that line woul dbe for Trochek and Kreider to create room and wreak havoc in and around the net. Both of those guys are very good within 10-12' from the goal mouth and they know how to get open.

Kaako needs the puck. He does good things with the puck when he has it. For me, the reason he doesn't gel at all with Panarin is that Panarin demands the puck and Kaako isn't as well versed in finding open lanes and spots to shoot from. it's not that he can't do it. It just hasn't been his game. His game is to suck guys to him, control the puck and distribute.

I agree. Troch may be the real key to letting Kakko do what he does. I just don't think catering to Laf as RW on Zibs line is 'the move'.

I want to see L/Z/K for an extended look - which they never got. Out there with foxy.

 

[NYR Viper]

I agree. Troch may be the real key to letting Kakko do what he does. I just don't think catering to Laf as RW on Zibs line is 'the move'.

I want to see L/Z/K for an extended look - which they never got. Out there with foxy.

I'd be fine with that as well. Although I think a Lafreniere-Zibanejad-Wheeler line would do well

The issue is that it demands Panarin-Chytil figure it out with a RW rotation of Goodrow/Vesey/young player inserted here

 

[Rongomania]

I'd be fine with that as well. Although I think a Lafreniere-Zibanejad-Wheeler line would do well

The issue is that it demands Panarin-Chytil figure it out with a RW rotation of Goodrow/Vesey/young player inserted here

Obviously we're looking for a RW at the deadline.

Again, wheels legs in late March/April are what concern me most, I think he's going to look great early/mid season.

 

[I Eat Crow]

We should trade for Bussi

I would unironically too. I have no interest in paying Igor 9 million + if the cap doesn't go up

 

[Leonardo87]

Reading a lot of these comments, just have to say…

So Happy Rangers hockey is back!

 

[IDvsEGO]

I'd be fine with that as well. Although I think a Lafreniere-Zibanejad-Wheeler line would do well

The issue is that it demands Panarin-Chytil figure it out with a RW rotation of Goodrow/Vesey/young player inserted here

I could absolutely see Cuylle/Othmann in that position and putting up monster numbers from nothing but tip ins one timers.

 

[TGWL]

Harpur is a prototypical 7th D. He logged some major minutes when we had injury and suspension issues, and was certainly not "very bad." Gus was a great signing on the cheap and Jones has a legit NHL upside, so we're lucky that we don't "need" a Harpur right now. The Pack will be lucky to have him, tbh. Like a Brodzinski.



What % "majority of the time" though? If he's scratched less than 75% of the time (and even less if there are injuries), then I think he'd be happy to stay up with the team and get 30ish games. This could be the perfect setup to prime him for 60ish games NEXT season.

You have to wait for those injuries to come. At the end of the day you can look back and say, he got a good 35-40 games in because of injuries, etc. But I think the decision will come before that has a chance of taking place.

 

[zlev]

Laf would've had 4 assists last night if Boston had Jonathan Quick in goal

 

[NYR Viper]

I could absolutely see Cuylle/Othmann in that position and putting up monster numbers from nothing but tip ins one timers.

I agree and I hope that's what transpires, but I'm concerned they won't be ready Day 1. I could see Vesey doing well there if he keeps his game simple and retrieves pucks.

This is where I wish the team had been able to bring in someone like Heinen or another vet on a prove-it deal.

 

[Fitzy]

Trochek isn't a bad passer.

The actual act of making a good pass? Sure.

But he and Chytil each lack 'sense' that is crucial for a playmaker. If the player isn't in their field of vision, they aren't going to find them.

It makes a player much easier to defend.

 

[MrAlmost]

I think the main reason we should want to see Laf-Z-Kakko is cause we should not want any of those 3 worrying about shutdown or matchups anymore. They should all be focusing solely on creating offense. Putting any of them on a matchup line is a waste. We have other players that can do it just as well, if not better, and won't be wasting offensive potential that needs to be tapped sooner rather than later so we know what we have.

 

[NYR Viper]

The actual act of making a good pass? Sure.

But he and Chytil each lack 'sense' that is crucial for a playmaker. If the player isn't in their field of vision, they aren't going to find them.

It makes a player much easier to defend.

I don't disagree there. I will say that both of those guys are well above average in terms of transporting the puck however.

 

[IDvsEGO]

The actual act of making a good pass? Sure.

But he and Chytil each lack 'sense' that is crucial for a playmaker. If the player isn't in their field of vision, they aren't going to find them.

It makes a player much easier to defend.

On the flip side of that, they're also not going to make terrible blind passes.


And I finally caught the highlights for the pre-season game.
Laf looked like a top 6 player easily from the short highlights I saw.
He had some really good passes, a couple smart shots. The rangers got goalied. It happens. Its pre-season, I dont want him throwing bodies, but he still plays in close, he gets good shots off.
Sykora also had a nice shot that rang off the post.

Only thing I want for Laf in the pre-season is to stay healthy and move quicker. It does look like he was moving quicker, he forced a couple turnovers, which means being in position and knowing what to do with it.

I think the main reason we should want to see Laf-Z-Kakko is cause we should not want any of those 3 worrying about shutdown or matchups anymore. They should all be focusing solely on creating offense. Putting any of them on a matchup line is a waste. We have other players that can do it just as well, if not better, and won't be wasting offensive potential that needs to be tapped sooner rather than later so we know what we have.

I dont necessarily disagree, but Kakko is one of our best defensive players, he's gonna play that game no matter what.