Training Camp and Preseason thread 2023

[Kendo]

I wouldn’t call Harpur a 7D. He’s an inept player who is a massive detriment whenever on the ice. He’s an AHL player and has been for most of his career. For some reason the slow lumbering big tough guy has now become the 7D job description. Jones would be a much better 7D who can fill in when needed or if someone gives him a breather. I see no need to trade him if he doesn’t make the team as a top 6 player because I don’t think he has much trade value and I’d much rather have him as an extra than anyone else in the organization.

"Jones would be a much better 7D." For sure. I said as much. I don't want to trade him either. He should get 30ish games since he's waivers eligible. If he was ineligible for another year, I'd rather he get the reps in HFD, and split games with a lumbering oaf like Harpur when there are injuries or whatnot.

The lumbering oaf 7D prototype exists because it's someone you don't mind scratching for maybe 60 games. We have no choice with Jones, so we have to make the most of it and try to keep his scratches under 50. It's sort of a good problem to have, since I'm a believer in his upside.

 

[EdJovanovski]

 

[eco's bones]

One preseason game following 216 career games where he's been outscored by Nail Yakupov, in a much higher scoring era.

I wonder how your Kravtsov fits into all your measurements. He didn't do much even in Hartford. His second chance in Vancouver turned into more disappointment. Whether they've put up as much production as hoped Kakko, Lafreniere and Chytil are all real NHL players.....Vitali isn't.

 

[Profet]

Of course we could get a first round pick for Lafreniere lol.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Drury trying to get a 1st rounder back for Laf:

 

[cheech70]

My eye test on last nights game..Sykora,Cuylee,Jones have a chance to be players

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

First- lets get something out of the way with Laf.

He's been spoken about by everyone in media every camp. All eyes are on him. Management is switching his position to manufacture more minutes for him. Its not Laviolette doing this on his own, because this has been the message before they even hit the ice. He doesnt even know what he has in him really. Its an organizational decision. This has been the same the past 2 camps. He's started up top to "get him going", but now they've switched him to the right. They've effectively given up on him on the left in the top 6 - his natural position.

Second - The thing about Laf that concerns me is that yeah, even though it was the first preseason game and "doesnt mean anything", it really does in his case. I wouldve expected more effort, more engagement. Even if it wasn't pretty. I didnt get the impression of a young player trying to prove himself last night. I got the impression of a veteran getting his feet/wind under him knowing he has a spot. Its this complacency thats troubling.

And on the outside looking in I can only form an opinion on what I see and what I hear. Every time Chytil is mentioned there is always a pinned quote or few sentences or comments about what he specifically worked on over the summer. This is going on for 5 camps now with him. He worked on his skating. Worked on his shot. We've seen improvements in both. The message is consistent because the player isnt complacent in his game. He doesnt have to be asked about it, its at the top of mind because training and improving his skills has become a habit. Same with Kakko.

Lafreniere doesnt offer this up unless asked and theres not much detail offered in response. And unless i missed it (several times) it isn't one of the pins of conversation every camp with him. Its just "will he take the next step?" Bottom line is, I just dont see, hear or feel the work ethic from him to improve. Experience and time alone does not make a player improve. You need to put in the work and it needs to be tireless, not just going through the motions. We are left waiting - and hoping.

I would love to be proved wrong. Maybe he goes about things differently or isnt the type to boast about his off-ice sumemr routine. I hope thats the case. But again - my eyes and ears are all I have to form an opinion and this is his 4th training camp. 4 times hearing and seeing the same things.

 

[Rongomania]

Drury trying to get a 1st rounder back for Laf:

You were wrong about Krav outscoring Kakko last year. I'm putting all of my faith in you being wrong again this year.

 

[Leonardo87]

 

[Rongomania]

I'm sorry but if that shut down line of Kreids/Troch/Kak is a thing.... I've seen it written too many times already.

You're not putting our #2 in a position to succeed offensively. Kreider cannot pass to save his life. And he has that tendency to play with horse blinders on which doesn't nurture Kaks game at all.

*I know Vesey is playing with them but that's even worse. It's about troch centering Kak, he is limited offensively, and I'm not shitting on him, just he has limits dynamically speaking.

 

[Profet]

Oh is Othmann participating in camp today?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I'm sorry but if that shut down line of Kreids/Troch/Kak is a thing.... I've seen it written too many times already.

You're not putting our #2 in a position to succeed offensively. Kreider cannot pass to save his life. And he has that tendency to play with horse blinders on which doesn't nurture Kaks game at all.

Funny thing is that line would still probably end up being our best line.

Not what I would run with, I'd throw Kreider on that LW and let that line cook but assuming that Vesey does Vesey things, It'll likely outperform the Panarin line (at least analytically) and probably even the other line.

 

[Rongomania]

Funny thing is that line would still probably end up being our best line.

Not what I would run with, I'd throw Kreider on that LW and let that line cook but assuming that Vesey does Vesey things, It'll likely outperform the Panarin line (at least analytically) and probably even the other line.

I understand, yes there is the element that it is pretty sexy as a shutdown line that certainly can pot a few - Just again, I think Kak has shown he deserves to be able to run with real first liners who can put up points; time with the more dynamic guys.

 

[GAGLine]

We got a 2nd round pick for Lias Andersson 3 years after he was drafted, and people think we can't get a 1st for Laf?

I'm not advocating we trade him by any means, but we absolutely could get a 1st for Laf if we decided to move him. I doubt any team would be willing to give up a high first, but there are plenty of teams that would take him for a mid to late 1st rounder.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I understand, yes there is the element that it is pretty sexy as a shutdown line that certainly can pot a few - Just again, I think Kak has shown he deserves to be able to run with real first liners who can put up points.

I get it, and it's why I'd throw Kreider there instead of Vesey.

I also don't think these lines end up sticking.

 

[Profet]

Laf is not a RW. This experiment will fail badly.

Just look at the game last night. He frequently attempted Panarin's famously terribad neutral zone backhand elevated shovel pass to the opposite wing... And it failed every time.

I just don't see it fellas. We were sold magic beans.

 

[Rongomania]

I get it, and it's why I'd throw Kreider there instead of Vesey.

I also don't think these lines end up sticking.

Yeah, I'm not jumping off the deep end, I just don't like that I've seen it on paper more times than I'm comfortable with.

 

[Profet]

We got a 2nd round pick for Lias Andersson 3 years after he was drafted, and people think we can't get a 1st for Laf?

I'm not advocating we trade him by any means, but we absolutely could get a 1st for Laf if we decided to move him. I doubt any team would be willing to give up a high first, but there are plenty of teams that would take him for a mid to late 1st rounder.

And we got a 7th round pick for Kravtsov.

I'd put Lafreniere's current value at a 2nd + 3rd rounder.

 

[Rongomania]

For all of the praising of the Kreids/Zib/Kak line in their short run, Kak wasn't the issue - it was Kreider not having the hockey sense level Kakko does. Watch the tapes, I studied that line deeply when it was happening and it was beyond frustrating how Kreids missed Kakko looks continuously. Yet another reason I bang the drum for this kid, he wasn't the issue on that line.

 

[GAGLine]

And we got a 7th round pick for Kravtsov.

I'd put Lafreniere's current value at a 2nd + 3rd rounder.

Kravtsov was in his 5th season post draft when he was traded, had a history of taking his ball and going home, and had yet to establish himself as a full-time NHL player.

Laf is an NHL player who put up 39 points in his D+3 season despite not getting a lot of PP opportunities.

You're nuts if you think they are remotely comparable.

 

[SRHRangers]

It's preseason and practice so I'm not going to throw a lot into it.

But if I see Kakko on a 3rd line opening night, Lavi deserves something thrown at him.

 

[Do you want ants]

And we got a 7th round pick for Kravtsov.

I'd put Lafreniere's current value at a 2nd + 3rd rounder.

Eh. Lias wasn’t even producing as a 4th liner at the time of the trade. Laf is at least producing like a middle 6er. I think he’d get a mid-late 1st.

Kravtsov like others have mentioned, walked away multiple times and was a pure salary dump to fit Kane.

 

[IDvsEGO]

And we got a 7th round pick for Kravtsov.

I'd put Lafreniere's current value at a 2nd + 3rd rounder.

Kratsov who had less than 100 nhl games, couldn’t stay healthy, repeatedly showed he wouldn’t put in the effort in the ahl when he couldn’t crack an nhl roster.

Laf has routinely scored in the nhl, and has shown he plays a physical nhl game, including clutch playoff goals.

Laf gets a first at the minimum.

 

[Rongomania]

Kratsov who had less than 100 nhl games, couldn’t stay healthy, repeatedly showed he wouldn’t put in the effort in the ahl when he couldn’t crack an nhl roster.

Laf has routinely scored in the nhl, and has shown he plays a physical nhl game, including clutch playoff goals.

Laf gets a first at the minimum.

Not only that, and reading this f*ckin' board wouldn't help BUT - He is just not done cooking yet, not even close.

 

[NYR Viper]

I'm sorry but if that shut down line of Kreids/Troch/Kak is a thing.... I've seen it written too many times already.

You're not putting our #2 in a position to succeed offensively. Kreider cannot pass to save his life. And he has that tendency to play with horse blinders on which doesn't nurture Kaks game at all.

*I know Vesey is playing with them but that's even worse. It's about troch centering Kak, he is limited offensively, and I'm not shitting on him, just he has limits dynamically speaking.

A Kreider-Trochek-Kaako line would eat almost every match-up they get. And it's a line that would do very well in terms of balance of who does what. They would own the boards in all zones and it would allow for each player to play to their strengths.

Kreider does his best work at recovering pucks and getting to the net.

Trochek does his best work when transporting pucks and getting to the high slot/net front area.

Kaako does his best work when he has room to facilitate passes in the offensive zone but he doesn't necessarily need to transport the puck there.



Trochek to carry the puck and then he and Kreider retrieve pucks and get to the front of the net while Kaako is the distributor in the offensive zone.