Training Camp and Preseason thread 2023

[NYR Viper]

I think the main reason we should want to see Laf-Z-Kakko is cause we should not want any of those 3 worrying about shutdown or matchups anymore. They should all be focusing solely on creating offense. Putting any of them on a matchup line is a waste. We have other players that can do it just as well, if not better, and won't be wasting offensive potential that needs to be tapped sooner rather than later so we know what we have.

This is somewhat true, but I will say that if a teams 'match-up' line is out there against the other teams bets players, that is often their best 'offensive' players. If that line is good at controlling the puck and driving possession, there could be opportunities there.

If we think about it just within the division, the line that matches up against Hughes may get more offensive opportunities than someone who plays against Hischier. Or someone who matches up against Aho, may get better opportunites than playing against Staal. etc.

 

[TGWL]

Laf is not a RW. This experiment will fail badly.

Just look at the game last night. He frequently attempted Panarin's famously terribad neutral zone backhand elevated shovel pass to the opposite wing... And it failed every time.

I just don't see it fellas. We were sold magic beans.

For me it's the defense more than the offense on the right side. He got a little lost in the D zone, and you can see him favoring that left side, which then ended up with him playing the left side breaking out until there was an opportunity to switch. You can see he wasn't as comfortable yet. That's going to be the bigger challenge for him I think. Sticking to your side isn't the be all end all, but you can't continuously go there if the other winger didn't cover the other side. In the O-zone, I didn't think he looked as uncomfortable.

 

[gravey9]

Kakko needs to be the one doing the passing. We've seen him with Panarin and we've seen him with Zibanejad. In both cases, he treats the puck like it's diseased.

It's not like he's looking to get open for his own shots, either. He's played 239 games; he's not a shooter at this level.

And then there's the kid line where it's Chytil and that other clown, and unless Chytil is on one of his shooting 6-for-10 binges, who's scoring goals?

I think putting Kakko with goal-scorers and putting the onus on him to be the passer is the way to go. That's what his skillset profiles as.

Agreed.

I don't love seeing Kakko's name on a "3rd line." But I love the idea of him being on a line where he's not deferring to anyone and gets to be THE GUY. I think he'll thrive with Trocheck and Kreids or down the road, another speedier waterbug with some skill -- a Berard or Sykora type.

To me this points out the existing issue that has plagued our forward makeup. We have one or two too many players that need the offensive play go through them. They need the puck. This issue was sooo much worse when they went and added Kane to the mix. Just not enough players that act as complimentary pieces who retrieve pucks, play responsible and most importantly drive the net and find open space.

Panarin needs the puck.
Kakko needs the puck.
Zib is best when he's always on the puck tho he's less of a distributor.
Chytil is similar to Zib.
Laffy is actually decent away from the puck and scores a bunch by driving to the net but his game is much more noticeable when he can pass and use his vision. (like last on the PP).

I personally don't know that there's a coaching solution to this issue. I don't know that you can find a mix that solves this entirely. I think you're always going to have a line with too many cooks. But legit, I think that Laffy with Zib and Kreids is exactly where he needs to stay to thrive. And I'm personally willing for it to be painful for a while because the team has made a HUGE investment in him. And we're running out of time to get the benefit of that investment.

But regardless of Laffy, the Rangers tend to look a bit slow because the guys away from the puck aren't playing fast enough, aren't getting inside and we can only hope that the system being installed helps with that. But to me, the forward group has always been plagued by a mix/chemistry issue more than anything else - footspeed included.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

What happened to RangerBoy?

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

I would just like to see him with a better passer than Kreider. Kreider does a lot of things great, passing is absolutely not one of them.

He sure as shit tries more than he should.

 

[Fitzy]

I don't disagree there. I will say that both of those guys are well above average in terms of transporting the puck however.

I think that's why they're NHL players, yep. North South puck luggers.

But Chytil has the higher offensive ceiling (At least mhis shot is miles better) , so I'm hoping his line with Panarin works out.

 

[I Eat Crow]

What happened to RangerBoy?

He posted last night.

 

[RangersFan1994]

With Lafy, I say put the kid line back together and give them more minutes than Trocheck Kreider Wheeler. Make the Trocheck line a 3rd line. Lafy looks lost when not on the kid line

 

[Fitzy]

You want young players to score more because of the idea of progression and development, the idea being that if Kakko scores 50+ with Zibanejad and Kreider it'll make him a better hockey player than if he scores 35-40 with Vesey and Trocheck.

But that's an assumption. The more Kakko scores the more he gets paid on his next potentially long term contract. If his 50 points with the elites are just by virtue of his playing with them, as an organization we're likely better off with him playing in the middle 6 and continuing to perfect his craft as a Jere Lethinen winger.

If you think he still has elite offensive upside, maybe you throw him with the big guns, but IMO if you ignore draft location, 40 points and solid 2 way play with a checking line is very useful.

Of the 3 'kid' forwards, in my opinion Kakko is the most versatile and reliable player, but also the least talented of the three in terms of star power and offensive production (Independent of linemates). He's the Lindgren to Miller and Jones.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Laf would've had 4 assists last night if Boston had Jonathan Quick in goal

Like for most of us here, Bussi is Laf's kryptonite

(this gag will never get old)

 

[Rongomania]

With Lafy, I say put the kid line back together and give them more minutes than Trocheck Kreider Wheeler. Make the Trocheck line a 3rd line. Lafy looks lost when not on the kid line

Nooooooooo. The only remnants of that line I want to see is Laf and Kak flanking Zibanejad with Fox out there with them always.

Time for Chytil to center bread. I don't mind wheels on the right of that, I think Chytil and breads goal totals go up a lot.

Kreids/Troch/Vesey. Has the makings of a great 3rd line. I would also like to see Cuylle there. Rotate Cuylle and Vesey there. Or rotate all three and see what happens on the right. I don't think it hurts to limit wheels minutes.

 

[CLW]

Kakko needs to be the one doing the passing. We've seen him with Panarin and we've seen him with Zibanejad. In both cases, he treats the puck like it's diseased.

It's not like he's looking to get open for his own shots, either. He's played 239 games; he's not a shooter at this level.

And then there's the kid line where it's Chytil and that other clown, and unless Chytil is on one of his shooting 6-for-10 binges, who's scoring goals?

I think putting Kakko with goal-scorers and putting the onus on him to be the passer is the way to go. That's what his skillset profiles as.

As you say that Vince reports a Panarin - Chytil - Kakko line today at camp. The hope now is that an actual system that all players adhere to will help the individuals take the next step. We can't keep having our individual stars playing their own individual game and not have actual functional lines and a system. The days of Panarin extemporizing Panarin hockey have to end not only for his own sake. That's the only way he can take the next step in the playoffs. Collective support is also the key for Kakko, Chytil and Laffy to grow individually.

 

[NYR Viper]

I think that's why they're NHL players, yep. North South puck luggers.

But Chytil has the higher offensive ceiling (At least mhis shot is miles better) , so I'm hoping his line with Panarin works out.

In terms f who should work with Panarin, Chtyil should be the guy. Panarin plays left wing and Chytil is a LH center. It should work well for one times, and passed from his left.

Zibanejad as a RH center means he can accept passes on his forehand but he needs to bring the puck across his body to shoot. It's not as natural of a fit for a shoot-first center.

 

[Rongomania]

As you say that Vince reports a Panarin - Chytil - Kakko line today at camp. The hope now is that an actual system that all players adhere to will help the individuals take the next step. We can't keep having our individual stars playing their own individual game and not have actual functional lines and a system. The days of Panarin extemporizing Panarin hockey have to end not only for his own sake. That's the only way he can take the next step in the playoffs. Collective support is also the key for Kakko, Chytil and Laffy to grow individually.

"He just lets us do what we want out there."

- Gallants Rangers.

Wtf even was that? How did we do so well? No wonder all of his teams completely deflate after soaring to high-highs. Dude is a fraud.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

Agreed.

I don't love seeing Kakko's name on a "3rd line." But I love the idea of him being on a line where he's not deferring to anyone and gets to be THE GUY. I think he'll thrive with Trocheck and Kreids or down the road, another speedier waterbug with some skill -- a Berard or Sykora type.

To me this points out the existing issue that has plagued our forward makeup. We have one or two too many players that need the offensive play go through them. They need the puck. This issue was sooo much worse when they went and added Kane to the mix. Just not enough players that act as complimentary pieces who retrieve pucks, play responsible and most importantly drive the net and find open space.

Panarin needs the puck.
Kakko needs the puck.
Zib is best when he's always on the puck tho he's less of a distributor.
Chytil is similar to Zib.
Laffy is actually decent away from the puck and scores a bunch by driving to the net but his game is much more noticeable when he can pass and use his vision. (like last on the PP).

I personally don't know that there's a coaching solution to this issue. I don't know that you can find a mix that solves this entirely. I think you're always going to have a line with too many cooks. But legit, I think that Laffy with Zib and Kreids is exactly where he needs to stay to thrive. And I'm personally willing for it to be painful for a while because the team has made a HUGE investment in him. And we're running out of time to get the benefit of that investment.

But regardless of Laffy, the Rangers tend to look a bit slow because the guys away from the puck aren't playing fast enough, aren't getting inside and we can only hope that the system being installed helps with that. But to me, the forward group has always been plagued by a mix/chemistry issue more than anything else - footspeed included.

Comparing a 5-year pro in the top-six to a couple potential bottom-six players who may never make the NHL... seems a no-no...

Also, Zibanejad is a pure playmaker who scores really well. Playmaking is his default but I agree, he's a better scorer when he's focused.

Chytil does not use his linemates nearly as well and is more like Trocheck but not as combative.

 

[will1066]

In terms f who should work with Panarin, Chtyil should be the guy. Panarin plays left wing and Chytil is a LH center. It should work well for one times, and passed from his left.

Zibanejad as a RH center means he can accept passes on his forehand but he needs to bring the puck across his body to shoot. It's not as natural of a fit for a shoot-first center.

In theory it makes sense but the one-time is not in Chytil's repetoire. I don't recall ever seeing him try the one-time.

 

[IDvsEGO]

In theory it makes sense but the one-time is not in Chytil's repetoire. I don't recall ever seeing him try the one-time.

He’s had some beautiful ones…

 

[I Eat Crow]

Like for most of us here, Bussi is Laf's kryptonite

(this gag will never get old)

He's going to get dealt after training camp for a center. I'd trade Ullmark when his value is highest to a team close to making the playoffs looking for an upgrade, but Boston will likely want to get something for Bussi when he's in form if they see Swayman as the guy moving forward.

As far as the Rangers, they'll need to see what they have in Garand next season the latest. Give him the full year in Hartford and the back up job next year. Make an assessment then. If he's not the guy you make a trade in summer 2024 for a goalie or sign one in UFA.

I'd even trade Igor next deadline if the Rangers really fall on their faces at that time, which isn't impossible.

 

[will1066]

He’s had some beautiful ones…

Forgive me. My memory is bad these days.

 

[LORDE]

What Laf needs more than anything else is to get better at hockey. Enormously disappointing that after a full offseason, he looks exactly the same as he did last season, and the season before that, and the season before that. Slow feet, slow hands, and slow reads.

His staunchest defenders talk about how he’s young, every month brings meaningful experience, and that you can’t develop power and skills during the season. He looks exactly the same as he did three months ago and three years ago. It’s looking more and more like this is simply who he is—a middle six depth forward who blends into the game.

Wasn't able to watch the game because NHL network, but this is extremely disappointing to read.

Yeah, it's only 1 pre-season game. How many more games until we see something?

1st reg season game? A week? Month? Mid-season? April?

When do the excuses stop?

 

[NYR Viper]

Wasn't able to watch the game because NHL network, but this is extremely disappointing to read.

Yeah, it's only 1 pre-season game. How many more games until we see something?

1st reg season game? A week? Month? Mid-season? April?

When do the excuses stop?

I'd give him a few weeks. I mean not everyone hits the ground running and he's playing a new position with new players after 3 days of camp with a new system and new coach.

yes he has to play well, but 15 minutes in his first game of the season?

I think we need to be a bit more patient than that

 

[Profet]

ESPN is def mocking us...

 

[will1066]

Like for most of us here, Bussi is Laf's kryptonite

(this gag will never get old)

 

[duhmetreE]

Have a feeling it will be a rough first 10-15 games. The board will be in meltdown....

once it clicks, it will be rainbows and sunshine

 

[will1066]

Forgive me. My memory is bad these days.

I was so wrong.

But it looks like he does this with left-handed feeds.