Training Camp and Preseason thread 2023

[Mac n Gs]

I want to say I’m surprised, but the absurd levels of overreactions to one meaningless preseason game are really something.

I’m still meh on the Laviolette hire, but it’s extremely apparent that there’s a directive and plan to get everyone up to speed with his structure and system. Give it time.

 

[UnSandvich]

Tbh it felt like our guys sped up as the game went along. Don't forget the guys had what, 1, 2 days with Lavi before this game?

I do think once the system clicks fully, we'll be a lot more competitive in the games where we can't just rely solely on high-end skill.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Tbh it felt like our guys sped up as the game went along. Don't forget the guys had what, 1, 2 days with Lavi before this game?

I do think once the system clicks fully, we'll be a lot more competitive in the games where we can't just rely solely on high-end skill.

Would be nice to see.

The response to cutting down on too many high danger chances and odd-man rushes under Gallant was to go out there and uh... do the same thing.

Im not looking at systems really until Game 1. Until then its about individual scouting, focusing on the younger players

 

[RangersFan1994]

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Its very encouraging to hear Laviolette roll out Cuylle's resume and stat line from last season with no hesitation.

He's done his homework on the players and actually knows who everyone is. Wow, what a novel concept.

I never got the impression from Gallant (or other previous coaches coming into the franchise within their first year) that they knew about the prospects or even cared to take the time to scout them in any way. Not until they saw them live and made their own impression.

This makes me feel a lot better about Kakko's TOI this season, because there are a lot of underlying metrics to his game that wouldnt necessarily jump out if you didnt know the player

 

[RangersFan1994]

It was great to see Cuylle on one of the top 3 lines last night. He's not a 4th liner. He has skill to be a 3rd liner maybe 2ed line as a fill in for injuries. He's underrated around here

 

[NYR Viper]

One thing I am amazed by is Schenider is a big human for his age. He clearly follows the Kreider model for taking care of himself. I am still pretty high on him. Physically, he is going to be tough to play against

 

[Fitzy]

It was great to see Cuylle on one of the top 3 lines last night. He's not a 4th liner. He has skill to be a 3rd liner maybe 2ed line as a fill in for injuries. He's underrated around here

I don't think people see his upside as a 4th liner so much as they think that his development won't be hindered by starting with 4th line minnutes in a way that you wouldn't want, say, a more finesse style prospect playing 10 minutes a game.

 

[haohmaru]

This might not come out the right way but I think a lot of the hate on the Lafreniere "haters" is kind of misguided. The disappointment/criticizing is more about the culmination of never having had a 1OA and finally getting one that turns out to be a dud for a 1st overall pick . If Lafreniere had been drafted in the 3rd round or something we'd all be saying what geniuses the Rangers were at getting him there.

The constant "piling on" is because a good chunk of us feel he'll never pan out and live up to that pedigree. I'm certain, however, that all of us hope to be wrong (at least while he wears Rangers blue).

 

[The Crypto Guy]

And we got a 7th round pick for Kravtsov.

I'd put Lafreniere's current value at a 2nd + 3rd rounder.

A 21 year old, already a 40 point player with high potential is not worth just a 2nd and 3rd.

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

And we got a 7th round pick for Kravtsov.

I'd put Lafreniere's current value at a 2nd + 3rd rounder.

Kravtsov is not an NHL player. Call Laf whatever you want, but hes an NHL player on any roster in the league. He hasnt performed like a superstar yet but hes a middle 6 on any team, and hes 21 years old. Would be utterly insane to trade him for 2nd or 3rd rounder, I would imagine there are plenty of teams that would pay more for him than that right now and not even think twice.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Kravtsov was not only a fringe player at best but also a flight risk with massive red flags.

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

Random thoughts on last night:

-Breakouts were better and pace up the ice was noticeably quicker. Transition play was a little better.
-The D, granted not many regulars last night, left a lot to be desired. Harpur and Schneider in particular were atrocious.
-Same story - team lacks a finisher. Laf in particular was very disappointing. More on players below.
-This team is terrible at scoring on big goalies and has been for a long time. I don't know what it is. Shot targeting in particular was pretty bad.

Now, players:
The good:
-Chytil looks to have made improvements from last year. He was all over the ice last night, and looks a little bit stronger/better edgework than last year. Didn't get to see him really rip it, but was nice to try and see him one-time one, and his wrist shot looks slightly quicker on the release than last year. Expecting big things if he can stay healthy.
-Blidh looks like a good insurance option in the AHL who can step up and provide energy if needed. He was relentless on the puck and showed everything you look for in an energy player on the 4th line.
-Sykora looks much improved from last year. He was also aggressive on the puck, took a couple "big" hits well and shrugged them off like nothing, and was fairly creative. He's still not ready yet, but his game is markedly improved from last year IMO.
-Cuylle's skating looked a lot better than last year. I still might like to see him dominate the AHL for a couple months before being brought up (rather than buried in a 4th line checking role), but it was good to see him buzzing around the net and getting touches more than last preseason.
-Domingue was solid. Good third string option to have in the AHL.

The bad:
-Quick wasn't great. His angles/positioning looked off. Hopefully working with Allaire helps him recover his form.
-Didn't care much for Riley Nash's performance. Let's just say if he doesn't make the team, I won't be losing any sleep. He looks done and didn't add much of anything at either end of the ice. If the team wants a 4th line that can contribute offensively, he's not the guy. Same goes if they want energy/forecheck.
-Matthew Robertson handles the puck like a live grenade. Woof. While I hope he can be better in the future, I'm not expecting him to make the team or seriously contend. He has a lot of work to do on this area of his game in particular.
-Didn't love Zac Jones's reads on the PP. He had a chance to QB it and wasn't really in the right spot much. Can chalk some of this up to the team not really working on special teams thus far in camp, but I'd really like to see a greater willingness to take slapshots from the point or pinch if he figures to see any PP time at all. Jones had a decent game otherwise, however, and that's coming from someone who's generally one of his biggest detractors.

The ugly:
-Ben Harpur and Braden Schneider were brutal last night. Harpur's best moment was the fight. Schneider, I expected to see improvements in his mobility/agility, but he looks much the same as last year. He got burned several times on giveaways and bad pinches, and looks very much like he did at points last year.
-Lafreniere looks like the same player as last season. Maybe slightly better acceleration, but that's it. Very disappointing. Was hoping to see him come into camp wanting to be the guy, instead, looks like he's just happy to be here. He's still entirely too quick to get rid of the puck when receiving it, and last night was a chance for him to try and do some more things as with the Rangers' lineup he was basically the guy. Would really like to see him shoot more/look to get in scoring position, especially on the powerplay if the team is serious about using him at RW. He's still too "pass first." He had a couple good passes, but again, this is something that was in his bag last year too and we're talking about a #1 and wanting to have seen him make a jump during the offseason.
-Jake Leschyshyn was awful. Every time the puck was cycled near him, the Bruins came away with the puck. This guy is just not an NHL player. Against the lineup the Bruins fielded, one would have expected him to have done a little bit of something, but no. Completely invisible.

 

[egelband]

And it was AJ Greer who looked like he wanted no part of Harpur. He looked genuinely frightened.

Hopefully Greer appreciates taking a late run at a guy with three mins left in a preseason game is a selfish, chickenshit move.

 

[GENESISPuck94]

The takes in here are dumb.

However, I'll say this, like I've been saying since his rookie season. You treat a player and develop him as a fringe 3rd line NHL player, with no special teams time, cut his nuts off every time he or his line makes a mistake, or flat out bench him for long stretches of the game, for 3 years... then wonder why he's not dominating the first game of his professional career being put in the spots he should have been in his entire career... that's just stupidity.

He should have been stapled to the top 6 and top PP unit from game one of his NHL career. Like every other franchise does with their #1 overall picks. And if they weren't (Stamkos) that coach was fired because of it (Melrose). I saw Hughes live his rookie season, kid barely ever left the ice. Devils had him out there for like 20+ minutes. He looked like a child against adults and they still ran him out on the ice, top PP unit, top 6 at 5v5, he was out there learning, failing, and unafraid to make plays that would turn the puck over, unafraid because they didn't castrate him and bench him after a mistake, he was out there for the next regular shift.

Rangers completely f***ed Lafreniere from the start because they wanted to placate the vet core that's done nothing but prove they can't win over and over again.

Stop wondering why. Stop blaming Lafreniere for not being Jagr in his prime on the PP in game one of the preseason. He's never been "the guy" not once since being drafted. The Rangers have done nothing but hold him back and punish him at every turn.

It's the Rangers fault. They haven't a f***ing clue how to develop forwards. They're allergic to homegrown high end talent up front. And until they figure that shit out they will never win a Cup.

Also, until the fan base stops enabling the Ranger for this stupid behavior, nothing will change. You all bitch and whine about Lafreniere one game into the preseason demanding he be traded and deciding he's done at age 22. And you wonder why they won't commit to youth up front. They think all you want is 30+ year old has been's and they're right, look at how many are begging for Kane to come back. It's insane.

If they're giving Laf the opportunities then EVERYONE including the Rangers AND the fan base needs to be patient while he adapts and learns to be in that role... again, if they'd done it right and had him there since the beginning this wouldn't be a problem right now.

 

[GENESISPuck94]

On the flip side, Jones deserves to be not only on this team, but also get the reps 5v5 and as PP2 QB. The kid is smart with the puck. He's a smart player. He's got great vision and great instincts offensively. Defensively he's good positionally. He's not going to bully anyone and he doesn't need to. That first pass out the zone his transition game, knowing when to pinch, he's got all that. We need that. We don't need to be wasting time with a scrub vet in that spot when we have a potential budding impactful offensive defenseman with smarts on our hands. But, Rongos will Rongo so I won't be surprised when they f*** this one up too.

 

[eco's bones]

One thing I am amazed by is Schenider is a big human for his age. He clearly follows the Kreider model for taking care of himself. I am still pretty high on him. Physically, he is going to be tough to play against

To me a future looking at a defense that has Fox, Miller and Schneider + Igor in net should be pretty amazing. I can only think that neither Miller or Schneider have reached their ceilings yet either.

For all the concerns about Kakko and Lafreniere reaching their potential a lot has gone more than right with those 3 defensemen.

 

[Levitate]

The takes in here are dumb.

However, I'll say this, like I've been saying since his rookie season. You treat a player and develop him as a fringe 3rd line NHL player, with no special teams time, cut his nuts off every time he or his line makes a mistake, or flat out bench him for long stretches of the game, for 3 years... then wonder why he's not dominating the first game of his professional career being put in the spots he should have been in his entire career... that's just stupidity.

He should have been stapled to the top 6 and top PP unit from game one of his NHL career. Like every other franchise does with their #1 overall picks. And if they weren't (Stamkos) that coach was fired because of it (Melrose). I saw Hughes live his rookie season, kid barely ever left the ice. Devils had him out there for like 20+ minutes. He looked like a child against adults and they still ran him out on the ice, top PP unit, top 6 at 5v5, he was out there learning, failing, and unafraid to make plays that would turn the puck over, unafraid because they didn't castrate him and bench him after a mistake, he was out there for the next regular shift.

Rangers completely f***ed Lafreniere from the start because they wanted to placate the vet core that's done nothing but prove they can't win over and over again.

Stop wondering why. Stop blaming Lafreniere for not being Jagr in his prime on the PP in game one of the preseason. He's never been "the guy" not once since being drafted. The Rangers have done nothing but hold him back and punish him at every turn.

It's the Rangers fault. They haven't a f***ing clue how to develop forwards. They're allergic to homegrown high end talent up front. And until they figure that shit out they will never win a Cup.

Also, until the fan base stops enabling the Ranger for this stupid behavior, nothing will change. You all bitch and whine about Lafreniere one game into the preseason demanding he be traded and deciding he's done at age 22. And you wonder why they won't commit to youth up front. They think all you want is 30+ year old has been's and they're right, look at how many are begging for Kane to come back. It's insane.

If they're giving Laf the opportunities then EVERYONE including the Rangers AND the fan base needs to be patient while he adapts and learns to be in that role... again, if they'd done it right and had him there since the beginning this wouldn't be a problem right now.

I understand why he was in that spot, I dont' think it's quite "placating a vet core", but yeah...you develop them as role players they're gonna play like role players unless they're generational talents (in which case they won't be developed as role players). The challenge now is to get him and Kakko to throw caution to the wind and start putting the puck in the net.

Generally I thought Laf was fine for a preseason game. I do think there's something to people thinking a guy like Chytil who's bigger and looks like he's moving more gets lauded while a guy like Laf can essentially have the same quality of game but get shit on because he doesn't meet some arbitrary goal people have in their head for him.

I thought he was fine. He created some chances, he got his shots, in some ways that's all you can ask from a player especially in a preseason game. If he spent the entire game without the puck and never generated any chances then I'd be more fussed but he didn't. I'll save my pearl clutching for the regular season.

 

[Kendo]

You have to wait for those injuries to come. At the end of the day you can look back and say, he got a good 35-40 games in because of injuries, etc. But I think the decision will come before that has a chance of taking place.

I'm almost certain that the decision is already made for our top 7. I don't see Jones asking out, and I don't see the team trading him for anything short of a 2nd (which I doubt is being offered, but we'll see). Gus can sit for 20ish games, and injuries will happen.

I would love to look back and say he got 35+ games.

Late next season, I would love to say the same for Robertson.

 

[egelband]

On the flip side, Jones deserves to be not only on this team, but also get the reps 5v5 and as PP2 QB. The kid is smart with the puck. He's a smart player. He's got great vision and great instincts offensively. Defensively he's good positionally. He's not going to bully anyone and he doesn't need to. That first pass out the zone his transition game, knowing when to pinch, he's got all that. We need that. We don't need to be wasting time with a scrub vet in that spot when we have a potential budding impactful offensive defenseman with smarts on our hands. But, Rongos will Rongo so I won't be surprised when they f*** this one up too.

I really hope the team uses the first half of the season to see what they have with some of these kids. Maybe not the most recent draft picks, like Othmann and Sykora…But I would love guys like Laf and Kakko get prime ice and Jones, Cuylle, even Edstrom to get some run with some leash. See what we have. Develop guys a bit. There’s a middle path where the team can stay afloat and still develop guys for at least a portion of the season, if they want to. I do sense Laviolette can handle that better than his predecessors.

 

[Crease]

I really hope the team uses the first half of the season to see what they have with some of these kids. Maybe not the most recent draft picks, like Othmann and Sykora…But I would love guys like Laf and Kakko get prime ice and Jones, Cuylle, even Edstrom to get some run with some leash. See what we have. Develop guys a bit. There’s a middle path where the team can stay afloat and still develop guys for at least a portion of the season, if they want to. I do sense Laviolette can handle that better than his predecessors.

Cuylle and Edstrom can be safely stowed in Hartford for organizational depth. If you start them in New York and lose the vets on waivers, you end up with no Plan B if Cuylle and Edstrom are not ready. That would be my worry.

 

[RangersFan1994]

Cuylle and Edstrom can be safely stowed in Hartford for organizational depth. If you start them in New York and lose the vets on waivers, you end up with no Plan B if Cuylle and Edstrom are not ready. That would be my worry.

Hartford has enough depth like Blidh, Brodzinski. Depth isn't an issue like it used to be

 

[TominNC]

The takes in here are dumb.

However, I'll say this, like I've been saying since his rookie season. You treat a player and develop him as a fringe 3rd line NHL player, with no special teams time, cut his nuts off every time he or his line makes a mistake, or flat out bench him for long stretches of the game, for 3 years... then wonder why he's not dominating the first game of his professional career being put in the spots he should have been in his entire career... that's just stupidity.

He should have been stapled to the top 6 and top PP unit from game one of his NHL career. Like every other franchise does with their #1 overall picks. And if they weren't (Stamkos) that coach was fired because of it (Melrose). I saw Hughes live his rookie season, kid barely ever left the ice. Devils had him out there for like 20+ minutes. He looked like a child against adults and they still ran him out on the ice, top PP unit, top 6 at 5v5, he was out there learning, failing, and unafraid to make plays that would turn the puck over, unafraid because they didn't castrate him and bench him after a mistake, he was out there for the next regular shift.

Rangers completely f***ed Lafreniere from the start because they wanted to placate the vet core that's done nothing but prove they can't win over and over again.

Stop wondering why. Stop blaming Lafreniere for not being Jagr in his prime on the PP in game one of the preseason. He's never been "the guy" not once since being drafted. The Rangers have done nothing but hold him back and punish him at every turn.

It's the Rangers fault. They haven't a f***ing clue how to develop forwards. They're allergic to homegrown high end talent up front. And until they figure that shit out they will never win a Cup.

Also, until the fan base stops enabling the Ranger for this stupid behavior, nothing will change. You all bitch and whine about Lafreniere one game into the preseason demanding he be traded and deciding he's done at age 22. And you wonder why they won't commit to youth up front. They think all you want is 30+ year old has been's and they're right, look at how many are begging for Kane to come back. It's insane.

If they're giving Laf the opportunities then EVERYONE including the Rangers AND the fan base needs to be patient while he adapts and learns to be in that role... again, if they'd done it right and had him there since the beginning this wouldn't be a problem right now.

The vet core that went to the ECF with Laf on a 3rd line with the other kids. There were better players making a deep run. It was an unusual place to find a 1OA. Plus there had been the Covid interference with his first year. Weird shit happened. I haven't given up on him.

 

[SA16]

On the flip side, Jones deserves to be not only on this team, but also get the reps 5v5 and as PP2 QB. The kid is smart with the puck. He's a smart player. He's got great vision and great instincts offensively. Defensively he's good positionally. He's not going to bully anyone and he doesn't need to. That first pass out the zone his transition game, knowing when to pinch, he's got all that. We need that. We don't need to be wasting time with a scrub vet in that spot when we have a potential budding impactful offensive defenseman with smarts on our hands. But, Rongos will Rongo so I won't be surprised when they f*** this one up too.

Jones absolutely does not "deserve" to be on the team. He needs to play well and show he belongs. He clearly should not play over any of Miller/Fox/Lindgren/Trouba. He won't play over Schneider. Gustafsson does everything Jones does, likely better, and did it playing a big role for this same coach last year.

 

[RGY]

I would unironically too. I have no interest in paying Igor 9 million + if the cap doesn't go up

Boston doesn’t seem to be moving on from either goalie this year and maybe not next year. There is more of a path for Bussi to get NHL time here in the next 1-2 years