Crease
Chief Justice of the HFNYR Court
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Goodrow Bonino Pitlick sounds like an accident injury law firm.
Training Camp and Preseason thread 2023
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Jim Ramsay
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I can understand people wanting Cuylle to get a chance because he showed enough in the AHL. I just dont get how people think Othmann is ready to be on an NHL third line without a lick of pro experience
Im still a fan of guys showing what they can do in the A before making the jump. In the minority on this, but I think Kakko and Laf coulda used some time down there as well
Amazing Kreiderman
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I don't understand how people can make such a definitive statement either way about Othmann.
What makes him a lock to start in Hartford? That's as fair a question as asking what makes him a lock to start in New York.
For a guy like Othmann, and the team having no clear 3rd line winger options, anything is possible. It's too soon to tell either way. The whole "have to play in the AHL" narrative is way simple. There are numerous examples of players (and I am not talking about top-10 picks here) that skipped the AHL altogether and just earned a spot and stuck from day 1.
Artturi Lehkonen, Sebastian Aho, Mark Scheifele, Mathew Barzal, Wyatt Johnston, Max Domi, Alex deBrincat, Jesper Bratt, Robert Thomas, Anton Lundell, David Perron, Nikolaj Ehlers, Alexander Steen, Derek Stepan, Dawson Mercer, Ryan O'Reilly, Justin Williams.
I'm not saying Othmann is going to make the team. But in my opinion it's just as foolish to disregard it as a possibility as well.
Jim Ramsay
Registered User
Yeah ofcourse plenty of players go right to the NHL, i just dont think thats the normal course for most players. Maybe Im lower on Othmann than other people but he seems to me to be a guy that needs some seasoning and muscle building to play his style of game at the NHL level. I think his skating and build arent there yet to play his effective game at the NHL level
Im ready to be proven wrong, but I just dont see it right now
NickyFotiu
NYR 2024 Cup Champs!
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Derek Stepan made the team without pro experience and he was a center a harder position especially at the NHL level . If Othmann earns it, why can't he make the roster.
- Jan 18, 2012
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btw
KAM Fox is a true #1 pairing imo. Easily be getting 25-27 minutes each and be at the top of the league in every metric.
Lindgren Fox is a 1.5 and offense dies on Lindgren stick unfortunately. It's possibly a pre-emptive move if Lindgren 'costs out'...
KAM Fox is a true #1 pairing imo. Easily be getting 25-27 minutes each and be at the top of the league in every metric.
Lindgren Fox is a 1.5 and offense dies on Lindgren stick unfortunately. It's possibly a pre-emptive move if Lindgren 'costs out'...
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Jim Ramsay
Registered User
Again I agree if he earns it, Just think too many have him penciled in there already.
And again, Im ready to be proven wrong
Jim Ramsay
Registered User
As a follow up, according to the AHL website, at the start of last season 83% percent of NHL players have spent time in the AHL before they 'graduated' to the NHL.
Its not common players are ready to jump right to the NHL right away
Its not common players are ready to jump right to the NHL right away
Crease
Chief Justice of the HFNYR Court
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There is no downside to having Othmann and Cuylle start in the AHL. Either they’re not ready, or they blow down the doors in the minors and get called up midseason.
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Is it better for Othmann and Cuylle to play 3rd or 4th line roles in the NHL without PP or PK time, or to play top 6 and all situations in the AHL?
Either or both can be called up at any time during the season. There's no reason to rush them. If they force the issue in camp with their play, so be it. But I'd gladly sacrifice a "slightly" better team on day 1 for better player development and reap the rewards down the line.
Either or both can be called up at any time during the season. There's no reason to rush them. If they force the issue in camp with their play, so be it. But I'd gladly sacrifice a "slightly" better team on day 1 for better player development and reap the rewards down the line.
Amazing Kreiderman
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Eh, that's not really relevant to what we are discussing here, since it includes undrafted players, and late round picks. If we are talking about a kid like Othmann, filtering for 1st round picks seems fair.
338 first round picks played in the NHL last season.
117 of those didn't played in the AHL (ATO's and cond. stints excluded). That's 35%. So 1 in 3 first round picks skips the AHL and sticks in the NHL.
Just to clarify: I have no problem with a player like Othmann spending time in the AHL. I just think the whole argument that players "have to go through the AHL first" is dumb. It's not a "Well, so many others had to do it, so this player has to do it as well" thing.
It's not that simple.
Watching this after last year's clown show is refreshing. I've been pissed off all summer but I can't complain about Drury attempting to fix the issues some of us were criticizing over Gallant's entire tenure - such as intensity, overall game speed, puck movement, X and O's. The players all seem in good shape, awake and eager to go and the mood overall seems good. What a contrast to last season's comatose brainless boring BS.
Here's to a good season.
That feels like a super misleading stat.
How many of those 83% of players also were
1. drafted after the first round
2. end up being bottom 6 players/bottom pair players
Othmann is a middle 6 potential player. The AHL is a great development league for certain players, but also not necessarily a great developmental league for others.
I think Othmann is the more talented player over Cuylle, but I also think someone like Cuylle, who's a much different player, is going to thrive from development in the AHL where it might actually stifle some of othmann's game.
SA16
Sixstring
Well if you're going to do that you obviously need to filter out at least the first two picks who very rarely play in the AHL. There were 33 last year and the only one who started their career in the AHL was Byfield (Reinhart at the end of a season, JVR not eligible for the playoffs after college)
This is not how teams are run…. We have plenty of youth in the lineup as is. Cuylle and Othmann will have to play out of this world to be considered to for the roster.
Amazing Kreiderman
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Really? Because if not “handed” spots, some certainly act like they should have the edge over NHL Vets who know how to play at this level. And that edge is really based on draft position, juniors success, AHL success, etc., but is not reality. We are competing for a Cup. It should be said since some don’t realize that. This isn’t a video game nor do we get awards for pumping tons of youth into the lineup. We are working to build the most competitive roster to win the cup. I really like Othmann and Cuylle. I think they both have quality NHL futures. But neither should be rushed and they will indeed have to not just do well, but significantly exceed expectations in Training Camp & Preseason to displace a proven NHL vet. The only swap I can possibly see if Cuylle for Pitlick, but is that truly beneficial to Cuylle’s development? Sitting on the 4th line? Instead of playing Top 6 minutes in Hartford along with Othmann. That team should be competitive this year as well.
Amazing Kreiderman
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I can't speak for others but if that's how you interpreted my posts on this subject, you completely missed the point.
I was using your response and tailoring it to how I feel others here perceive the roster should be built. Hence why I referenced ‘some others’ in the reply.
I love KAM with Fox but hate Lindgren with Trouba. If KAM gels with Fox I try to trade Lindgren to Calgary for Hanifin with retention. Hanifin and Trouba I think would be a really good 2nd pairing. Sign Hanifin in the offseason and trade Goody.
The Crypto Guy
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- Jun 26, 2017
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Hell yea, we are going dominate that first preseason game.
TheGortonConspiracy
Wow its a nice GM
Dude the AHL is the second best league in the world. Othmann is 20 years old and is coming from the OHL...
IIRC you said the same about Kravtsov - that he didn't need AHL time and came to north america too early.
The players you listed (and when you said the same RE: Tarasenko Panarin Kuznetsov etc ) are the exception. Kreider was still playing in college at this age + then spent most of the following season in the AHL. Assuming Othmann doesn't outplay some other players, should start in AHL playing first line minutes and come up later
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