Training Camp and Preseason Discussion

[Raccoon Jesus]

Andreoff is one to make it for sure. That's an easy pick. I won't say Toffoli cause that is also way too easy and he's a borderline prospect at this point. I dunno I think Kozun will get his shot, maybe Vey sticks around. Liked that Sutter played him 4th line the other night with a couple of bangers in Carcillo and Sabourin. Thought that was an interesting move.

Cuts? Too many. Czarnik, Roach, Miller, Berube etc. etc.

Basically any of those guys that are first years or fringe players at the AHL.

Interesting. Think Kozun carves out a decent career as a Scott Nichol type?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Mitchell is fine, he'll be playing. This is the first real test for him.

 

[bmr]

VERY weak on paper? Uhh, no. Doughty and Regehr were hurt in last year's playoffs and Greene never really got into top form. It is still a pretty good defensive corps. Remember that Muzzin had the highest +/- on the team last year and he will gain in confidence from another year out there. The only guys that are marginal are Ellerby/Schultz and maybe Martinez. And Martinez was pretty solid on that pairing with Greene when we won the cup. Scuderi > Regehr but it's not like we took a major downgrade.

I'm sorry, but some combination Schultz, Ellerby, Martinez, and Muzzin isn't exactly covering the loss of Mitchell.

Without Mitchell, our D looks VERY weak on paper. Put to practical use, under Sutter, in our system, anything's possible, but for God's sake look at this D core w/o Mitchell:

Muzzin-Doughty
Regehr-Voynov
Martinez-Greene
Ellerby, Schultz

Regehr is a different player, Muzzin is Muzzin, and Martinez a question mark. Ellerby has room to improve, I guess, but Schultz is a terrible, terrible hockey player.

Compared to well balanced D cores of the past, the one above is easily the weakest I've seen in a few years.

 

[Captain Mittens*]

VERY weak on paper? Uhh, no. Doughty and Regehr were hurt in last year's playoffs and Greene never really got into top form. It is still a pretty good defensive corps. Remember that Muzzin had the highest +/- on the team last year and he will gain in confidence from another year out there. The only guys that are marginal are Ellerby/Schultz and maybe Martinez. And Martinez was pretty solid on that pairing with Greene when we won the cup. Scuderi > Regehr but it's not like we took a major downgrade.

I know Regher had the elbow, what was Doughty's injury?

 

[driller1]

I know Regher had the elbow, what was Doughty's injury?

Ankle injury

 

[Thrice]

I know Regher had the elbow, what was Doughty's injury?

Crabs.

 

[deeshamrock]

From the Mayor's practice report, most of the regulars are not going to Colorado for the game tomorrow:


The Mayor John Hoven ‏@mayorNHL 1h Carter, Doughty, Kopitar, Quick, Richards, Stoll on ice now. Looks like they're not going to CO game vs #Avs

The Mayor John Hoven ‏@mayorNHL 50m Add Frattin, Greene, Kitsyn, Lewis, O'Neill, Regehr to list of #LAKings still on ice - i.e. likely not going to game in Denver

That gives Sutter a chance to give players he is evaluating a longer look, I guess.

 

[KingKopitar11*]

From the Mayor's practice report, most of the regulars are not going to Colorado for the game tomorrow:


The Mayor John Hoven ‏@mayorNHL 1h Carter, Doughty, Kopitar, Quick, Richards, Stoll on ice now. Looks like they're not going to CO game vs #Avs

The Mayor John Hoven ‏@mayorNHL 50m Add Frattin, Greene, Kitsyn, Lewis, O'Neill, Regehr to list of #LAKings still on ice - i.e. likely not going to game in Denver

That gives Sutter a chance to give players he is evaluating a longer look, I guess.

Isn't that the televised game:

 

[deeshamrock]

Originally Posted by deeshamrock
From the Mayor's practice report, most of the regulars are not going to Colorado for the game tomorrow:


The Mayor John Hoven ‏@mayorNHL 1h Carter, Doughty, Kopitar, Quick, Richards, Stoll on ice now. Looks like they're not going to CO game vs #Avs

The Mayor John Hoven ‏@mayorNHL 50m Add Frattin, Greene, Kitsyn, Lewis, O'Neill, Regehr to list of #LAKings still on ice - i.e. likely not going to game in Denver

That gives Sutter a chance to give players he is evaluating a longer look, I guess.

Isn't that the televised game:

No, that's next Friday (frozen fury) vs the Rangers. And that should be good, A squad should be playing and Quick vs. Lundquist.

Tonight on NHL Network is Leafs vs Senators, that might be good. Bernier is supposed to be starting in goal.

 

[KingKopitar11*]

No, that's next Friday (frozen fury) vs the Rangers. And that should be good, A squad should be playing and Quick vs. Lundquist.

Tonight on NHL Network is Leafs vs Senators, that might be good. Bernier is supposed to be starting in goal.

Oh thank you, and hopefully the kings have their regulars against the Rangers, that'd be exciting.

And screw the sens. Hope bernier does well.

 

[kingsholygrail]

No, that's next Friday (frozen fury) vs the Rangers. And that should be good, A squad should be playing and Quick vs. Lundquist.

Tonight on NHL Network is Leafs vs Senators, that might be good. Bernier is supposed to be starting in goal.

Oo, I'm gonna watch that and see how Bernier does.

 

[deeshamrock]

Oo, I'm gonna watch that and see how Bernier does.

He has a very strong 1/2 game vs the Flyers on Monday, made 15 saves and displayed his puckhandling and sucking up rebound skills. Had a very good game.
JVR's goal was terrific in that game, he's gonna have a huge year for them, he'll be on the top line tonight.

 

[Captain Mittens*]

No, that's next Friday (frozen fury) vs the Rangers. And that should be good, A squad should be playing and Quick vs. Lundquist.

Tonight on NHL Network is Leafs vs Senators, that might be good. Bernier is supposed to be starting in goal.

what time is the game Dee? (pacific)

 

[deeshamrock]

Tonight on NHL Network is Leafs vs Senators, that might be good. Bernier is supposed to be starting in goal.

what time is the game Dee? (pacific)

430 PT
but if that's too early, they repeat it as soon as it ends, so it will be on again in it's entirety at 730 PT

and NHL LIve is back on, 5-7 ET


And if you do watch, keep an eye on JVR...he's really looked good, I think he'll be a top scoring threat this year.

 

[Darth Vitale]

How have your two young guns looked so far in camp (Frattin and Toffoli)? Listening to that Puck Daddy interview sounds like Frattin is a virtual lock for the 2nd line with Richards and Carter, and that Toffoli will be the first call-up if one of your Top 3 RW gets hurt?

You guys and the Ducks both have some quality talent ready to make the jump as NHL regulars... good for the league to see that. Will enjoy watching you guys pummel each other on Center Ice this year. Hopefully someone gives extra pummel to Penner. Never been a fan of that guy / glad to see him leave the Kings.

 

[Reaper45]

Former Kings draft pick Michael Schumacher was cut by the Av's. Manchester will probably see him in Lake Erie during the year. Still interested in how he'll progress.

 

[Bandit]

Phaneuf is such a pylon. I'm torn. I like Bernier but Toronto can suck it.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Only one period of hockey for Bernier. They put in Drew MacIntyre in to start the 2nd. Bernier exits the game giving up just one goal.

 

[kingsfan]

I fully understand how the cap system works.

We will be right at the cap limit when we break camp. In fact, we need to jettison one salary (probably Ellerby or Schultz) just to be at the cap limit. Hence we will not accumulate any salary cap relief and "bank" cap space for later in the year. As such, we would not be able to get a $4mm defenseman at the deadline (such as RR, which is how much he made last year).

I suppose one scenario where we could get relief is if WM goes on LTIR. We hope that he recovers fully and can be functional since he would be better than anyone we could trade for. The second best option is that he goes on LTIR. The worst option is that he plays ineffectively at 80%, thus preventing the Kings from trading for someone.

Are you sure you understand how the cap works?

The Kings are currently less than $100,000 over the cap. Even if they cut their lowest paid D-man, which is where the cut would likely come, that would be Jeff Schultz, and he makes $700,000. That'd swing us a full $600,000 below the cap. If we remained that much below the cap all season, we'd have plenty of money to rent a guy at the deadline because we aren't getting a $4 million player like RR, we're getting a $500,000 player like RR, because that's all that was owing on his contract roughly when we got him.

Kitsyn is a good complimentary top-9. If you expect him to standout or dominate I'd say don't hold your breath.

I'm not holding my breath for him to be Gretzky, I'm just trying to see how he's doing since getting word on his progress in Russia was difficult.

 

[etherialone]

Max is having a good camp. He has shown that he can compete and while he will need a season in MCH imo I think he will become a solid 3rd line LW in a season or two. He is fitting in and the coaches like his positional play allot or so it has been said. Max believes that he will start scoring once he gets use to the pace of the NA game. He has shown moments of very good play and moments of hesitation. Once he overcomes that he will be ready.

He is right on track from where he was drafted. Solid player.

Schultz had better start showing something or he could be waived first. Hearing Fraser could be going somewhere but it could just be talk. Waaaay too early into camp for anything serious.

Willie says he is feeling strong. Here is to hope because an on his game WM could be all the difference we need to bring it back home.

Keep an eye on Andy Andy next game. He has proven himself ready to make the jump and a valuable asset but as recently as today he has been told that if he keeps playing the way he has been that he is well on his way to playing in the NHL sooner than later. One thing he needs to work on is his neutral zone timing/awareness.

He appears to have straightened out the problem and to me it is the way most rookie's play the game when they are trying to adapt but if you watch AA in the NZone as he transitions from O to D coverage he has had a habit of slowing down and getting a bit lost for a moment or two. Those moments are what makes the difference between an NHL ready player and a risk/reward rookie. Doesn't matter what position or which zone, if you hesitate/delay you will without a doubt be the goose.

Andy is a talented kid and a hard worker. I have championed him for those reasons and believe he will be with the big club before the end of the season if not sooner. Watch his next game and pay attention to his NZone play and watch how a dedicated young player makes the changes needed to make the NHL.

 

[driller1]

Are you sure you understand how the cap works?

The Kings are currently less than $100,000 over the cap. Even if they cut their lowest paid D-man, which is where the cut would likely come, that would be Jeff Schultz, and he makes $700,000. That'd swing us a full $600,000 below the cap. If we remained that much below the cap all season, we'd have plenty of money to rent a guy at the deadline because we aren't getting a $4 million player like RR, we're getting a $500,000 player like RR, because that's all that was owing on his contract roughly when we got him.
.

Let's do the math. The trade deadline is approximately 3/4 of the way through the season. If we are $600k below the cap, we would bank 3/4 * $600k = $450k. We would have another 1/4 * $600k = $150k in savings below the cap for the remainder of the season, for a total of $600k.

To acquire a RR type person, we would be on the hook for 1/4 * $4 million = $1mm.

$1mm is > $600k. That would be a breach of salary cap.

Let's put this another way. If we had $450k "in the bank" 3/4 of the way through the season, we could afford someone with a cap hit of $2.4 million. (We are on the hook for $2.4 million * 1/4 = $600k).

I don't know of too many defensemen that would be on the trade block at $2.4 million that would drastically improve our team. Certainly none the caliber of WM or RR.

Also, keep in mind that this assumes we do not suffer any injuries and need to call up any AHL players. If someone goes on IR (but not LTIR), we would still need to count their salary against the salary cap plus the pro-rated portion of the AHL call up salary cap number. In Vey or Andreoff, that salary is ~$900k.

Class is dismissed.

 

[redcard]

$1mm is > $600k. That would be a breach of salary cap.

Let's put this another way. If we had $450k "in the bank" 3/4 of the way through the season, we could afford someone with a cap hit of $2.4 million. (We are on the hook for $2.4 million * 1/4 = $600k).

I don't know of too many defensemen that would be on the trade block at $2.4 million that would drastically improve our team. Certainly none the caliber of WM or RR.

If Lombardi trades for a defensemen at the deadline, he's going to have to get rid of one. So he'll have 2.4 mil to upgrade a defensemen. So instead your looking at guys in the 3.1-3.5 range depending on who's one the way out.

 

[Trolfoli]

Schultz had better start showing something or he could be waived first. Hearing Fraser could be going somewhere but it could just be talk. Waaaay too early into camp for anything serious.

Kings have 24 roster players. They need to cut one to start the season... Schultz or Elerby.... That leaves the Kings 0 roster spots... in order to call up TT or AA... someone else needs to be moved. If the kings are running 8D that means it's a forward. So move one of Clifford/King/Carcillo/Lewis/Nolan/Fraser for each call up.

 

[KingKopitar11*]

Max is having a good camp. He has shown that he can compete and while he will need a season in MCH imo I think he will become a solid 3rd line LW in a season or two. He is fitting in and the coaches like his positional play allot or so it has been said. Max believes that he will start scoring once he gets use to the pace of the NA game. He has shown moments of very good play and moments of hesitation. Once he overcomes that he will be ready.

He is right on track from where he was drafted. Solid player.

Schultz had better start showing something or he could be waived first. Hearing Fraser could be going somewhere but it could just be talk. Waaaay too early into camp for anything serious.

Willie says he is feeling strong. Here is to hope because an on his game WM could be all the difference we need to bring it back home.

Keep an eye on Andy Andy next game. He has proven himself ready to make the jump and a valuable asset but as recently as today he has been told that if he keeps playing the way he has been that he is well on his way to playing in the NHL sooner than later. One thing he needs to work on is his neutral zone timing/awareness.

He appears to have straightened out the problem and to me it is the way most rookie's play the game when they are trying to adapt but if you watch AA in the NZone as he transitions from O to D coverage he has had a habit of slowing down and getting a bit lost for a moment or two. Those moments are what makes the difference between an NHL ready player and a risk/reward rookie. Doesn't matter what position or which zone, if you hesitate/delay you will without a doubt be the goose.

Andy is a talented kid and a hard worker. I have championed him for those reasons and believe he will be with the big club before the end of the season if not sooner. Watch his next game and pay attention to his NZone play and watch how a dedicated young player makes the changes needed to make the NHL.

Interesting, I hope Fraser and an extra defenseman leave in order to put a useful center at 4th. I hope those talks were true, I'd love to have Andy on the kings.

 

[etherialone]

Rumor has it that JB hurt his back yesterday (felt stiffening) and left the game in the 1st.