GDT: Training Camp 2023

[No Name The Nameless]

I have no issue with Kopitar being re-signed, but why not just go year to year like so many other prominent older players have done towards the end of their careers?

Just keep re-signing 1 year deals, if he has a good year this year, give him the $7m. If he falls back more, offer him $4-5. I don’t know why they felt the need to guarantee him $7m for the 25-26 season when he will be 38.

It’s just a completely unnecessary risk to take for a player who is by all indications almost zero risk to flee after the season. I don’t expect it to happen but if Kopitar falls off significantly the Kings are going to be in cap trouble with that contract.

Bingo

 

[Johnny Utah]

Anyone take a crack at the Reign roster?

 

[King'sPawn]

Dude, that Olympic team was a complete joke and the usa took anyone who could skate. . Happy to see him there but the rest were stiffs.

So, despite the rest of what I said, you focus on that?

He played the entire series against the Dallas Stars. The Wild had one fewer point than the Kings last year. Are they a bunch of stiffs, too?

Of the 21 goals Dallas scored, he was on the ice for zero, while averaging 14:33 ice time. That's more than both Edler and Walker in the playoffs last season, btw. And that's with LA and Edmonton having 3 OT games, versus MIN/DAL getting 1. Just as a refresher, both of them were on the ice for more than zero goals against.

In fact, including the two regular season games he played after his collegiate year, he'd yet to be on the ice for any of the 27 goals scored against Minnesota. In the two regular season games, against Chicago and Nashville, he averaged 20:04 of ice time. Fourth among Minnesota's blueline. In LA, that would have been fourth after Anderson, Doughty, and Gavrikov.

Edit: it's mind numbing the efforts people put in to downplay his achievements and commitment since he was traded away. He has been very good as a player who didn't turn 21 until 5 weeks ago.

 

[kilowatt]

Nemec was 18 last year, Clarke is 20. The history of 18 year old defenseman in the NHL is not as strong as 18 year old forwards. I personally would have kept him in Europe, but we will see. The Devils made the best development choices with L Hughes, Hirschier and L Hughes, so I guess you trust them, we will see.

I'll ask you the same question, of all the high end players the Kings have had in the AHL, can you name a single one who has benefitted greatly from being there?

Byfield. Would you still have him down there with what you know now? Plenty of guys struggled bigtime in the NHL and have turned out way better than QB has with all the AHL time (Hughes, Seguin, Barkov, Thornton some of the notable ones).
Turcotte. You still think it was the right move?
Kaliyev. I'll give them a pass, they didn't have much choice. But did being down there really help him out much?
Bjornfot. He is a fringe player, basically at the same spot he was 4 years ago. Did he benefit at all from AHL time?

Can we agree that for whatever reason (we can disagree on that) the Kings players who have spent significant time in the AHL have for the most part failed to reach a level expected of them?

So why would anyone want Clarke down there?

For anyone interested, here's a link to AHL stats, which you can filter by Ontario Reign players, aggregate for all seasons back to 205, and sort by points per game.

Is there any forward we can look at and say "their time in the AHL was a success"? If so, maybe we can draw some conclusions, but I can't really think of any. Adrian Kempe played 101 games for the Reign (and 3 for the Monarchs) and scored at 0.46 points per game. Not sure what to take away from that.

In lieu of that, we can at least look at some prospects who scored at 0.6 points per game or higher: Lias Andersson (0.95 P/GP), Gabe Vilardi (0.85 P/GP), Arthur Kaliyev (0.78 P/GP), Carl Grundstrom (0.72 P/GP), Quinton Byfield (0.69 P/GP), Jaret Anderson-Dolan (0.69 P/GP), Samuel Fagemo (0.62 P/GP), and Alex Turcotte (0.62 P/GP).

What does this tell us? I don't know, nothing? That scoring at the AHL level means f*** all?

The only guys that I can really point to as successes that put in their time in the AHL are Mikey Anderson and Matt Roy. Maybe the AHL is a decent place for developing defensive defensemen?

 

[Schmooley]

Maybe the AHL is a decent place for developing defensive defensemen?

Yea its good for defensive defensemen and a guy like Helenius will benefit in that league though he may have been brought in to the AHL too early. He couldve developed his skills overseas for another year or so then came to the AHL to learn how to fight, kill penalties, take faceoffs etc…

 

[Sol]

I don’t know why so many people here talk about the Kings “developing” players when they have no development.

 

[Herby]

Edit: it's mind numbing the efforts people put in to downplay his achievements and commitment since he was traded away. He has been very good as a player who didn't turn 21 until 5 weeks ago.

It's nuts, isn't it.

As you know, I've been on the Faber train since the start, he was one of the best defensive defenseman I have ever seen at the NCAA level, he just shut down the other teams best players more consistently than anyone I ever saw. And his hockey IQ is off the charts, he just always makes the right read, whether its to go off the glass, pass to a teammate or move it himself. People loved hearing that stuff, but ya, once he was traded some peoples attitude changed and they began to suddenly minimize him, which I don't get. How do you go from being super optimistic and excited about a player to saying he's overrated and calling people who's opinions didn't change "Fabersexuals" and "Faber Bros". Just never made sense to me.

Yea its good for defensive defensemen and a guy like Helenius will benefit in that league though he may have been brought in to the AHL too early. He couldve developed his skills overseas for another year or so then came to the AHL to learn how to fight, kill penalties, take faceoffs etc…

Another guy brought over before his 20th birthday, if the Kings truly just project him as a glorified goon I guess that's fine, but this was a guy they used a 2nd round pick on, who was not a complete offensive black hole as a teenager in the top Finnish league. What was wrong with letting him play one more year in Finland and see if maybe he can gain some offensive confidence and be more than a glorified goon? But here we are, rushed over at 19, and he has scored 3 times in 73 AHL games over 2 seasons.

 

[Telos]

 

[Fishhead]

The AHL is good for developing defense for sure, and is helpful for getting guys adjusted to the surface who have always played on a larger one. That's why guys from overseas so commonly get pulled over. Results with that are a mixed bag.

I always think it's questionable to put younger guys who are smaller down there, there are just too many guys trying to make a name for themselves. That rarely works.

It's absolutely fantastic for bigger, checking type guys, especially later-round draft picks. It's great for guys like Dowd, Nolan, King, Roy, Forbort, etc. Guys who aren't burners who need to learn to think the game to make it.

Kempe is an exception with scorers. I find the general trend is if you have a scoring guy who isn't wowing you in camp to the point where he's pushing for a spot with some obvious talent, odds are he's never going to make it big. The AHL can turn those guys into NHL'ers, but it's not often they take off after that. The play is just sloppy so high-end skill usually isn't developed. You can put a scorer down there to teach them good habits (Kaliyev) and round out their game, but you aren't going to gain a lot of production from it. Leading goal scorers in that league are usually AHL lifers.

Players down because of Injuries are a different story of course, but those are the general trends I've seen.

 

[Statto]

I know what some of the folks are going to say: But look at our finish last year! One of the best in Kings history!

To which I respond: Now imagine if we had an even better GM, coach, and development staff running the show? Could we have won the cup? Why are we complacent with (at best) mediocrity? We made the playoffs -- so did 15 other teams! Who gives a flying f*** about making the playoffs?

The goal is the cup. Is this team built for a cup? It’s hard to see that it is.

Regular season ‘success’ does not qualify as a successful rebuild. A deep playoff run maybe does… but for me at least two are needed to qualify as success unless the first nets a cup.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

It’s funny seeing Todd even get fed up with the lack of movement from his penalty killers.

 

[Little Psycho]

At first I thought Doughty was concerned about the coyote player but then he proceeded to destroy the kid’s confidence and I’m like yeah that’s more like him lol.

 

[funky]

So who gets fired on the development side.

Yannetti for his picks or Emerson for the development of the picks. Which one failed us ?

 

[Evgeny Oliker]

How has Mania looked in camp?

What’s his upside?


Thanks

 

[bouncesonly]

ouch: Fagemo Claimed on Waivers by Nashville

 

[Vino]

Is there any forward we can look at and say "their time in the AHL was a success"?

Vilardi's second stint in the AHL. He was totally different player after that than before it.

 

[Statto]

Vilardi's second stint in the AHL. He was totally different player after that than before it.

That’s fair, I’d agree with that.

 

[Statto]

So who gets fired on the development side.

Yannetti for his picks or Emerson for the development of the picks. Which one failed us ?

I think the picks were fine. We also know that Yannetti’s preference for the top 5 picks wasn’t followed in Turcotte’s case and the type of player wanted is why they didn’t take Stutzle. I do still think Byfield will be fine but even I agree he wasn’t the right pick if you’re in ‘win now’ mode.

The issue is a problem with developing players, the strategy for roster construction and not moving prospects before they lose significant value.

This is the year we either discover Blake is a genius or the wheels fall off completely. They are at a crossroads with Byfield, Turcotte, Spence, Kaliyev, Bjornföt and to a lesser degree Clarke. If they don’t feel they can move RV and Roy (using those players to fill the slots) during the season to sort out goaltending (and other gaps) and create cap space for 24/25 then it’s essentially admitting that they’ve failed to properly develop the prospect pool.

 

[BringTheReign]

I think the picks were fine. We also know that Yannetti’s preference for the top 5 picks wasn’t followed in Turcotte’s case and the type of player wanted is why they didn’t take Stutzle. I do still think Byfield will be fine but even I agree he wasn’t the right pick if you’re in ‘win now’ mode.

The issue is a problem with developing players, the strategy for roster construction and not moving prospects before they lose significant value.

This is the year we either discover Blake is a genius or the wheels fall off completely. They are at a crossroads with Byfield, Turcotte, Spence, Kaliyev, Bjornföt and to a lesser degree Clarke. If they don’t feel they can move RV and Roy (using those players to fill the slots) during the season to sort out goaltending (and other gaps) and create cap space for 24/25 then it’s essentially admitting that they’ve failed to properly develop the prospect pool.

Agreed. I know pundits don't always know what they're doing either, but NHL scouting and prospects media raved about our picks. Yannetti has seemed to lean towards other players given his comments at times, but with the volatility there is in projecting 18 year olds it's more about player tiers. It's not like they've been reach way out of tiers when making high picks. It's the handling of them that has been the issue. We let Brown, Kopitar, Doughty, Toffoli, and so on get real top six and top four minutes at young ages. Go figure Kempe and Anderson get those opportunities and turn into legit contributors. I am hoping Byfield's glimmer grows after a promising stop at 1LW.

 

[Sol]

Agreed. I know pundits don't always know what they're doing either, but NHL scouting and prospects media raved about our picks. Yannetti has seemed to lean towards other players given his comments at times, but with the volatility there is in projecting 18 year olds it's more about player tiers. It's not like they've been reach way out of tiers when making high picks. It's the handling of them that has been the issue. We let Brown, Kopitar, Doughty, Toffoli, and so on get real top six and top four minutes at young ages. Go figure Kempe and Anderson get those opportunities and turn into legit contributors. I am hoping Byfield's glimmer grows after a promising stop at 1LW.

I think the best way to get Byfield to grow is give him some good wingers and more icetime. He’s becoming a passenger on the Kopitar line rather than growing into a gamebreaker.

So who gets fired on the development side.

Yannetti for his picks or Emerson for the development of the picks. Which one failed us ?

You fire both. They’re all rotten.

 

[kilowatt]

This is the year we either discover Blake is a genius or the wheels fall off completely. They are at a crossroads with Byfield, Turcotte, Spence, Kaliyev, Bjornföt and to a lesser degree Clarke. If they don’t feel they can move RV and Roy (using those players to fill the slots) during the season to sort out goaltending (and other gaps) and create cap space for 24/25 then it’s essentially admitting that they’ve failed to properly develop the prospect pool.

Yeah, we moved Johnson for Carter and it won us a cup. Can we do the same now? We’ve got Spence and Clarke who are both in theory ready.

 

[YP44]

If

Yes.

Next season's (projected) waiver eligibles in addition to this year's (JAD, Bjornfot, Madden, Moverare, Thomas):
Byfield
Kaliyev
Spence
Turcotte
Taylor Ward

RFAS:
Byfield
Grundstrom
Lizotte
Kaliyev
JAD
Turcotte
Lee
Madden
Thomas
Ward
Maltsev
Spence

UFAS:
Arvidsson
Roy
Lewis
Hodgson, Tynan, Hicketts, Connauton

Brilliant.

Oh, and EVERY GOALIE IN THE PROS IS A FREE AGENT.

Blake is heading for a brick wall that we've been warning about for 3+ years now with no movement. Who blinks first, the brick wall or Blake?

Watch him wait to the off season for all of the above, except for some reason giving a 4 year deal to Talbot.

 

[Fishhead]

Agreed. I know pundits don't always know what they're doing either, but NHL scouting and prospects media raved about our picks. Yannetti has seemed to lean towards other players given his comments at times, but with the volatility there is in projecting 18 year olds it's more about player tiers. It's not like they've been reach way out of tiers when making high picks. It's the handling of them that has been the issue. We let Brown, Kopitar, Doughty, Toffoli, and so on get real top six and top four minutes at young ages. Go figure Kempe and Anderson get those opportunities and turn into legit contributors. I am hoping Byfield's glimmer grows after a promising stop at 1LW.

I think they were raving about the Kings because of quantity over quality. A ton of our picks could end up NHL'ers, but even when it was stacked there were only a few that had the ceiling of "quality" NHL'ers. A lot of prospect mags get super excited about guys and lose sight of something they all know - each draft only has a handful of high impact guys at the top, and a few surprises in the later rounds. Maybe 25 guys out of 210. There were only 2 top picks in our system, they must have thought we hit the goldmine in the late first and 2nd.

 

[King'sPawn]

How has Mania looked in camp?

What’s his upside?


Thanks

He hasn't played since he was drafted due to injury.

He reads a lot like Durzi to Kings fans. But he'll be playing in juniors this year.

 

[YP44]

Well with Fagemo gone it opens up a top 6 and possible PP spot in Ontario for one of Pinelli, Laferriere, Chromiak, Thomas or Turcotte.

Hate losing him for nothing but if he’s not gonna make the Kings why block, one of the other up and comers. Just wish we could have recouped a pick.

We have some AHL scoring vets down there like Tynen and Hudon as well as Ward and Maltsev to mix in. Should be a solid top 9.

Helenius, Doty and Hodgson should be fun.

Just hope they let the kids play lots of minutes.

I feel like Thomas is finally going to have a healthy season and be a big part of the Reign. Sadly i also feel he will not get a shot in the NHL becasue of Lizzote, Lewis and Grundstrom.