GDT: Training Camp 2023

[BaileyFan]

The problem with resigning Kopitar is that the $7mm cap hit is going to constrain other moves. Patrice Bergeron played last year for a $2.5mm cap hit. That's because his main priority was winning another Cup. Kopitar was looking to maximize the earnings he could make over his career. Bergeron has career earnings of $96mm. Kopitar is already over $120mm before we add in the additional $14mm extension. In my opinion, that is gross selfishness on AK's part, and we should have kindly shown him the door for anything over $5mm. Is his production worth it? Probably, but does it get us closer to the Cup? Highly doubtful.

I honestly don't blame Kopi or any player for looking out for themselves and not taking a hometown discount. But it's weird to me that people keep saying that he's staved off Father Time so far when he's barely a year removed from looking like the weak link on a line that had Andreas Athanasiou on it and last season, before Byfield was put on his line, he was on pace for only 59 points despite every other game being a run-n-gun goalfest. The point is he's not worth $7 mil RIGHT NOW let alone 3 years from now and especially not when the team has centers coming out the wazoo and PLD was supposed to give them leverage on his next deal.

 

[Sol]

The same issues are true if you let Kopitar walk.

You can’t win a SC with Danault as your 2C, not with Kopitar as the 1c and certainly not with PLD.

And also, they don’t believe QB can be a center for at least the next 3 seasons, “Nelly” goes on Pravda and tells you that was the plan though and Hoven pushes that lie, that they didn’t expect a #2 overall pick to make an impact at C until he was 23.

The 2019 and 2020 drafts and the inability to have even a capable 3rd line center out of back to back top 5 picks centers 4 and 5 seasons into the organization is a much bigger disaster than many here seem to realize. People should have lost their jobs for those picks, whether it was the evaluators or the development team it doesn’t matter, something along the way was completely butchered and someone should have been held accountable.

Instead they all get extensions and promotions. Surfs up!



You can never have enough sub 6’ centers.

Kopitar doesn’t get the Kings anywhere. What we get to the playoffs only for Todd to try to shelter him against McDavid again? Signing Kopitar was such a big mistake. I don’t give a f*** what he did ten years ago. It set back the organization another 2-3 years by keeping his carcass strapped to the top line yet again. I don’t think PLD Danault or Byfield are it. HOWEVER we already know Kopitar isn’t it either. So why the f*** do you keep this guy? Wouldn’t you rather know what you have now than risk another rebuild 2 years later at most ?

The problem with resigning Kopitar is that the $7mm cap hit is going to constrain other moves. Patrice Bergeron played last year for a $2.5mm cap hit. That's because his main priority was winning another Cup. Kopitar was looking to maximize the earnings he could make over his career. Bergeron has career earnings of $96mm. Kopitar is already over $120mm before we add in the additional $14mm extension. In my opinion, that is gross selfishness on AK's part, and we should have kindly shown him the door for anything over $5mm. Is his production worth it? Probably, but does it get us closer to the Cup? Highly doubtful.

Look I will be the first one to tell you I don’t give a f*** about Kopitar. Kopitar has gotten paid fat stacks his entire career, I’m forever grateful for his accomplishments within the organization but he definitely didn’t do it with a light wallet.

I loved Kopitar and still admire the player he was. But he needs to go. He’s a burden on this franchise. He’s taken byfields spot. PLD has taken Byfields spot. And now the Kings are delaying the inevitable. Once Kopitar falls apart which he shows a lot of signs of doing , the Kings will be in a terrible bubble spot for the next few years off the backs of PLD and Fiala. I’d rather be a dumpster fire that ensures change and a pathway rather than a team in the middle with nowhere to move up and the only way to move down will come from a decision to rebuild vs it being a necessity to do so.


I think the Kings are heading into a dark time where they are too good to be bottom feeders but they’re not good enough to be anything in the playoffs. That’s a terrifying position to be in because that can take a long time to course correct.


Blake got desperate and Kopitar had all the leverage. It’s insane to say that Kopitar had all this leverage in the end of his career. That’s crazy. What does it say about your rebuild if you’re deathly afraid of losing a dying star?

 

[Herby]

I honestly don't blame Kopi or any player for looking out for themselves and not taking a hometown discount. But it's weird to me that people keep saying that he's staved off Father Time so far when he's barely a year removed from looking like the weak link on a line that had Andreas Athanasiou on it and last season, before Byfield was put on his line, he was on pace for only 59 points despite every other game being a run-n-gun goalfest. The point is he's not worth $7 mil RIGHT NOW let alone 3 years from now and especially not when the team has centers coming out the wazoo and PLD was supposed to give them leverage on his next deal.

I have no issue with Kopitar being re-signed, but why not just go year to year like so many other prominent older players have done towards the end of their careers?

Just keep re-signing 1 year deals, if he has a good year this year, give him the $7m. If he falls back more, offer him $4-5. I don’t know why they felt the need to guarantee him $7m for the 25-26 season when he will be 38.

It’s just a completely unnecessary risk to take for a player who is by all indications almost zero risk to flee after the season. I don’t expect it to happen but if Kopitar falls off significantly the Kings are going to be in cap trouble with that contract.

 

[unicornpig]

losing kids and not getting enough playing time is more of an indictment on TM, then again blake did hire him.

 

[ru4reals]

I wanted to see if this was correct, so I took the top three draft picks for each draft from 2004 through 2021 and looked at points per game.

Two important notes: 1. I basically see the Ovechkin and Crosby drafts as the "turning point" for the modern era of the NHL, so that's why I'm starting there rather than 2000, and 2. two of the top three picks from 2022 haven't played an NHL game yet (only Slafkofsky, no Nemec or Cooley), so I'm not including those draft years.

Of the 54 players drafted in the top three picks since 2004, only 5 players have a worse points per game. All 5 of those players are defensemen. Those players are: Cam Barker, Ryan Murray, Jack Johnson, Zach Bogosian, and Erik Gudbranson.

Some notable "busts" with higher points-per-game than Byfield: Nolan Patrick, Nail Yakupov, Kaapo Kakko, Alexis Lafreniere, Kirby Dach, Alex Galchenyuk, Kyle Turris, and Jonathan Drouin.

All defensemen with points-per-game higher than Byfield: Erik Johnson, Owen Power, Aaron Ekblad, Drew Doughty, Miro Heiskanen, Rasmus Dahlin, and Victor Hedman.

I sure hope Byfield turns it around, otherwise he's literally the biggest top-three bust of the modern era.

View attachment 748317

Wow this is absolutely depressing. Crazy thing is he's looking more and more like he could be. Sheesh.

 

[Herby]

losing kids and not getting enough playing time is more of an indictment on TM, then again blake did hire him.

TM deserves blame for certain things, the Kings massive struggles in drafting and developing is not one of them. This is a management, scouts, development staff issue. Something is broken.

 

[King'sPawn]

I have to admit I'm almost in admiration of fans who see the Kings lose young talent for nothing, trade young talent for players who have yet to get the Kings into the second round since they won the cup, are so much against the cap they have to shorten the roster, and STILL think the organization is being run well.

 

[Sol]

Wow this is absolutely depressing. Crazy thing is he's looking more and more like he could be. Sheesh.

That’s what drives me nuts on here. I don’t know how people don’t realize that Yakupov was a better player when he was drafted than Byfield is. If Yakupov turned out to flop, I don’t understand how someone who looks worse than Yakupov won’t bust?

I also don’t know how people on here can say with complete honesty that in a re-draft they would take Byfield uncontestedly with hindsight. Stutzle has 20 times the talent byfield has. Idk how anyone would still take Byfield over him in a redraft. Just crazy how bad this team has drafted.

I’m definitely in my feelings about losing Vilardi. I wish we kept him.

 

[Ghetty Green]

No. And they are 2 completely different players at that.



Funny, this works for JAD as well. JAD has at least played in about 100 NHL games while Fagemo only a handful. If anything, JAD has regressed. Fagemo hasn't even played in enough games to know what we have in him at the NHL level.

This is why Blake mentioned he signed Englund to that extra year. To prevent other teams against claiming him off waivers.

This is not JAD vs Fagemo argument, rather, it's Fagemo vs Englund. Lewis is on his very last leg, so I would throw him into that conversation with Englund as well.

But it's also about asset management.

So do we have to listen to you talk Ish about JAD all season now ? Poor JAD

 

[BigKing]

I have to admit I'm almost in admiration of fans who see the Kings lose young talent for nothing, trade young talent for players who have yet to get the Kings into the second round since they won the cup, are so much against the cap they have to shorten the roster, and STILL think the organization is being run well.

The running a shorter roster and still having this goalie lineup is really something else. Very impressive.

 

[AbsentMojo]

The point is he's not worth $7 mil RIGHT NOW let alone 3 years from now and especially not when the team has centers coming out the wazoo and PLD was supposed to give them leverage on his next deal.

Thats what I thought the deal was partly about - securing a top 6 C and at the same time, not being guns to the head to resign Kopi.. then that deal makes a lot more sense.. If Kopi wants > 5mil say thanks for the memories.

 

[funky]

Well with Fagemo gone it opens up a top 6 and possible PP spot in Ontario for one of Pinelli, Laferriere, Chromiak, Thomas or Turcotte.

Hate losing him for nothing but if he’s not gonna make the Kings why block, one of the other up and comers. Just wish we could have recouped a pick.

We have some AHL scoring vets down there like Tynen and Hudon as well as Ward and Maltsev to mix in. Should be a solid top 9.

Helenius, Doty and Hodgson should be fun.

Just hope they let the kids play lots of minutes.

 

[Schrute farms]

I have to admit I'm almost in admiration of fans who see the Kings lose young talent for nothing, trade young talent for players who have yet to get the Kings into the second round since they won the cup, are so much against the cap they have to shorten the roster, and STILL think the organization is being run well.

Soccer (Surf) Moms

 

[funky]

After thinking more about it I am more pissed we feel the need to run a 1.6 mil 4th line center on a team stocked with centers

We have a top defensive center in Danault

We have a top two way center in Kopitar.

We have a big shiny 8.5 mil toy in PLD.

We have a recent 2nd overall - Byfield

A recent 5th overall - Turcotte

And a guy like JAD making league min.

With the top three taking ice time reductions from last year and only playing 18 mins a game that leaves the 4th liner to take 6 mins a night max. Probably closer to 3 if the boys play their regular minutes.

Can’t we get by with JAD for this? That opens up another spot to ice a 22 man roster. I would love to see Turcotte stay healthy and force them to keep him up. I still think he could take over Moore’s spot.

Moore’s 4 mil a year was a not needed contract. This was the spot a Turcotte should have stepped into. Hell we might need that spot for Kaliyev.

Next year when we lose Arvidsson was the year Fagemo stood a chance. Too bad we couldn’t have snuck him by until then. Hopefully Turcotte, Kaliyev or Laferriere can step into the spot and we can put the money saved towards a goalie.

Sorry. Still trying to be glass half full but my patience are getting tried.

 

[Sol]

I’m just reposting this so I can bookmark it. This is the dumbest comment I’ve seen TM make all of his tenure and he’s made plenty. I don’t know how anyone can argue for his intellect when he says this. This is insanity.

 

[KingsHockey24]

Someone tell me why we waived Fagemo and not JAD.

Who has the higher ceiling? Fagemo. What does this team have an abundance of? Left shot forwards. What is Fagemo? A right shot forward.

 

[Herby]

That’s what drives me nuts on here. I don’t know how people don’t realize that Yakupov was a better player when he was drafted than Byfield is. If Yakupov turned out to flop, I don’t understand how someone who looks worse than Yakupov won’t bust?

I also don’t know how people on here can say with complete honesty that in a re-draft they would take Byfield uncontestedly with hindsight. Stutzle has 20 times the talent byfield has. Idk how anyone would still take Byfield over him in a redraft. Just crazy how bad this team has drafted.

I’m definitely in my feelings about losing Vilardi. I wish we kept him.

I don’t think anyone is still taking QB over Stutzle. Maybe Axl and SN, but nobody who is answering truthfully.

My dispute was with the people who tried fighting what was obvious from the start. You only needed a handful of games from AK to see he was special and a lot of teams were going to have egg on their face even if the players compared were still teenagers. The same was true of Stutzle. I think LA and NYR probably knew almost right away that they had both dropped the ball. I think a lot of fans of both teams tried to fight it, “to soon to tell” may be true in some cases, but in his case and AK case it wasn’t .

 

[EXTRAS]

Is Moore expected to play the penalty kill?

 

[King'sPawn]

Is Moore expected to play the penalty kill?

He and Danault are almost joined at the hip, including on the PK.

 

[KingsHockey24]

Is Moore expected to play the penalty kill?

Kopitar, Danault, Kempe, Lewis, and Moore will be our most used PK'ers.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I thought Fagemo would eventually be Arvidsson's successor, but I guess they have other plans...

At least guys like Laferriere and Turcotte are pushing for spots, but we all know they're headed to Ontario, who just lost one of their top goal scorers.

 

[kingsfan28]

On the Kings? No. But that's the problem.

He still played in the playoffs last season after getting a couple games in Minnesota against Jason Robertson and Dallas. He played on the Olympic team the year before, as well as being the captain of Team USA's WJC team.

Dude, that Olympic team was a complete joke and the usa took anyone who could skate. . Happy to see him there but the rest were stiffs.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Missing on a late 2nd rounder isn’t that big a deal, but this is just a continuing pattern of this team being unable to get any kind of reasonable return on high draft picks.

Vilardi
JAD
Kupari
Thomas
Turcotte
Bjornfot
Fagemo
Byfield
Grans
Faber
Clarke
Pinelli
Hughes
Helenius

How many of these picks do you believe have brought the Kings a sufficient ROI?

You are looking at a C taken #11 whos now a 2nd line RW as being the most proven pick. With #2 being a player currently on the Minnesota Wild.

We are all optimistic about Clarke, but it looks like “here we go again” with the AHL bullshit. His long-term development will suffer just like everyone else’s did from being down there.

What's the difference between Clarke being down there....and Nemec being down there?

 

[Herby]

Dude, that Olympic team was a complete joke and the usa took anyone who could skate. . Happy to see him there but the rest were stiffs.

It wasn't a typical best on best Olympics, but the level of competition was not terrible. And Team USA didn't just bring anyone, there were some true blue chip prospects on the team. Sanderson, Faber, Beniers, Knies.

Also, this was not just some random one-off performance out of nowhere. Faber was one of the best defenseman in the Big10 from the moment he stepped on the ice, and was B10 Defensive Player of the Year as a sophomore and a junior, winning the award over guys like Owen Power and Luke Hughes. And then immediately stepped into the lineup for a playoff team and looked the part (without a second of AHL time). And is now locked into a 2nd pair role.

Faber is a fantastic young player, I understand why the Kings did it, but we lost a player who is on the same level as Clarke, it was a steep price to pay, it was not a fleecing as some here said.

 

[Herby]

What's the difference between Clarke being down there....and Nemec being down there?

Nemec was 18 last year, Clarke is 20. The history of 18 year old defenseman in the NHL is not as strong as 18 year old forwards. I personally would have kept him in Europe, but we will see. The Devils made the best development choices with L Hughes, Hirschier and L Hughes, so I guess you trust them, we will see.

I'll ask you the same question, of all the high end players the Kings have had in the AHL, can you name a single one who has benefitted greatly from being there?

Byfield. Would you still have him down there with what you know now? Plenty of guys struggled bigtime in the NHL and have turned out way better than QB has with all the AHL time (Hughes, Seguin, Barkov, Thornton some of the notable ones).
Turcotte. You still think it was the right move?
Kaliyev. I'll give them a pass, they didn't have much choice. But did being down there really help him out much?
Bjornfot. He is a fringe player, basically at the same spot he was 4 years ago. Did he benefit at all from AHL time?

Can we agree that for whatever reason (we can disagree on that) the Kings players who have spent significant time in the AHL have for the most part failed to reach a level expected of them?

So why would anyone want Clarke down there?