If they both break out I wont really care because we should win the cup. They are also both RFA, therefore controlled.
GDT: Training Camp 2023
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Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
Oh cool yeah 13 NHL games in 4 years since draft for a prospect that is now 23 years old, terrific development and evaluation program we got there. 0 games for anyone but Byfield from 2020. 9 for Clarke from 2021. 12 for Turcotte. 30 for Spence. 0 for Thomas. 96 in 6 years for JAD. 130 across 4 years for Kupari.
Nashville is in the middle tier of waivers too so it's not like this was even a lottery team who found him useful
But yes, ultimately, less about Sammy as a player and more about the ongoing pattern of flushing assets for no good reason
Portillo is RFA too so the Kings aren't looking great even if he does improve.Rofl, lost in the rest of the mess is that the Kings are relying on three elderly journeymen to contend and may yet lose one to waivers
- May 9, 2014
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It’s perfectly fine with some prospects but we have done it with far too many. We needed to back off on bringing in veteran players and left spots that had to be filled by youth. Hopefully Laf or Turcotte at least show that we can afford to move RV at the deadline, the same with Clarke and Spence pushing Roy out because we are in a terrible mess with the cap if not.
I don’t care for Fagemo the player but losing him as an asset is frustrating because this was all too predictable.
Its a total asset flush for sure.
I’ve seriously felt our draft team has needed a shakeup for a few years now. They arent good at identifying steals and the proper players like they used to. It was probably time for Futa, but he and DL had a synergy going. I dont sense that with Blake and Yanetti.
- May 9, 2014
- 5,813
- 8,230
Of course we are repeating this problem for next year already by potentially sitting our blue chip D star or a top prospect in Spence because they don’t have space. One or both players are now at risk of being disillusioned as they are both NHL players. Does Spence need waivers next year?
Herby
How could Blake have known?
The Kings have largely seen their entire prized prospect rebuild lose anywhere from moderate to significant value from time of draft to the current, and funny enough one of the few who actually gained value was traded before ever making the NHL.
How do you claim you are contending, despite having a gaping hole in goal and issues on LD and then just hoard 22-24 year olds, despite having so many NHL’ers signed to 3+ year deals.
I wonder if the Kings tried to include prospects instead of 1sts in the Fiala and Gavrikov deals but the teams wanted nothing to do with them. With the way the Kings are constructed now it would be better to have 18 or 19 year olds than 22 and 23 year olds. At least Kopitar, Danault, Doughty will be nearing the end of their time with the Kings when those guys are waiver eligible.
We will be in this same spot next year with Turcotte and perhaps even Kaliyev.
DoktorJeep
Luc and Rob are a waste of time and money.
Sucks to lose Fagemo for nothing. If he gets a shot in Nashville and breaks out this becomes a kick to the bag. If he doesn’t, then it become another sunk 2nd rounder picked during a rebuild year. No upside any which way.
The only thing for management defenders to do is minimize Fagemo and point at remaining shiny toys that haven’t lost their luster.
The only thing for management defenders to do is minimize Fagemo and point at remaining shiny toys that haven’t lost their luster.
Sol
Smile
- Jun 30, 2017
- 25,052
- 21,322
This is going to be an unpopular opinion but I seriously think it was a mistake extending Kopitar. Him taking up the position for another couple seasons is one sure way of blocking the number 1C position again. Shouldn’t Byfield and PLD be fighting for that spot? Why the hell do we have them? On paper this is a good team THIS year but holy shit once Kopitar is finally gone and I can’t wait for that day, what then? Aren’t you supposed to be thinking ahead rather than taking everything year by year. Byfield is legit so f***ed by this organization. It’s so infuriating for me because as much as I think he’s ass shouldn’t he be allowed to fail? God this team is so f***ing dumb.
How can anyone succeed if they’re not allowed to fail? rarely anyone is touched by the golden glove of the hockey gods like McDavid.
How can anyone succeed if they’re not allowed to fail? rarely anyone is touched by the golden glove of the hockey gods like McDavid.
bland
Registered User
- Jul 1, 2004
- 8,208
- 12,562
Lol, you know damn well Blake will lock in at least Roy this year, and Arvidsson is 50/50 for an extension.
What possible evidence could you have to support the idea that Blake won't contract the team into the corner next year?
deaderhead28
Registered User
- Jul 3, 2010
- 5,426
- 3,995
One size fits all has never worked, and never will.
The Kings have their eggs in a basket, and whatever I think about it, it's done. If a team is going to go the quick rebuild route, you can't do much better. They need a goalie and a young guy to step up to give them a serious shot.
We saw the prospect dump coming a long time ago, I remember discussions a few years back about how we needed to consolidate because we had way too many. Had we cashed in on some of those we'd be in a much better spot, and it's not hindsight if you saw it coming. I think they bought into the hype of our system when it was a bit overrated by most. They've done better lately, but middling guys like Fagemo and Thomas will be the casualties. It's overall poor asset management when you lose someone to waivers as most situations are avoidable. I feel that it's not the development system as a whole as much as they just wouldn't shit or get off the pot and decide which ones they wanted to keep and invest in. They tried the middle road and it doesn't work. I don't buy the slow boil stuff they put out, they know damn well it doesn't always work. They just had a ton of assets and tried to keep them all like a greedy kid with pokemon cards.
The way I see it, bitching about stuff like this doesn't really do anything but blow off steam. I probably would have went the more painful rebuild route, I was waffling on it because the glory years are hard to let go of. But if they think they can pull this off, great, give it a shot. But if you don't succeed, you should be canned.
Either way we'll know this season.
Herby
How could Blake have known?
I love the guy, but Matt Roy should have been traded this summer for a comparable goaltender. He is very likely to walk at the end of the season and we will still be a joke in goal.
Not surprising though if Clarke starts the year in the AHL, I had been hopeful (delusional I guess) that maybe just maybe they had seen the light, but unlikely, they really are who we thought they were. Owen Power, Jake Sanderson, Brock Faber, Luke Hughes are all similar caliber prospects and age to Clarke. All will be playing important roles on NHL teams this year, they have a combined 0 AHL games.
This organization just does things way different than other teams when it comes to handling higher end youth (1-2 round picks) and the results just have been very poor.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
Yes.
Next season's (projected) waiver eligibles in addition to this year's (JAD, Bjornfot, Madden, Moverare, Thomas):
Byfield
Kaliyev
Spence
Turcotte
Taylor Ward
RFAS:
Byfield
Grundstrom
Lizotte
Kaliyev
JAD
Turcotte
Lee
Madden
Thomas
Ward
Maltsev
Spence
UFAS:
Arvidsson
Roy
Lewis
Hodgson, Tynan, Hicketts, Connauton
Brilliant.
Oh, and EVERY GOALIE IN THE PROS IS A FREE AGENT.
Blake is heading for a brick wall that we've been warning about for 3+ years now with no movement. Who blinks first, the brick wall or Blake?
kilowatt
the vibes are not immaculate
- Jan 1, 2009
- 18,700
- 21,800
KingsFan7824
Registered User
- Dec 4, 2003
- 19,537
- 7,615
The only way Arvidsson or Roy are traded at the deadline is if they're out of the playoff race.
What's WILD is they have THE guy who pioneered the NHLe metric that has proven to be very successful at predicting prospect breakouts based on historical statistical comps. The same metric that a team like Carolina uses every single year to find diamonds in the rough. The same metric that was screaming that Lane Hutson was massively undervalued in the 2022 draft. Then they pick a guy like Jack Hughes for reasons I still don't understand.
Herby
How could Blake have known?
The same issues are true if you let Kopitar walk.
You can’t win a SC with Danault as your 2C, not with Kopitar as the 1c and certainly not with PLD.
And also, they don’t believe QB can be a center for at least the next 3 seasons, “Nelly” goes on Pravda and tells you that was the plan though and Hoven pushes that lie, that they didn’t expect a #2 overall pick to make an impact at C until he was 23.
The 2019 and 2020 drafts and the inability to have even a capable 3rd line center out of back to back top 5 picks centers 4 and 5 seasons into the organization is a much bigger disaster than many here seem to realize. People should have lost their jobs for those picks, whether it was the evaluators or the development team it doesn’t matter, something along the way was completely butchered and someone should have been held accountable.
Instead they all get extensions and promotions. Surfs up!
You can never have enough sub 6’ centers.
Piston
Fire Luc and Blake
The problem with resigning Kopitar is that the $7mm cap hit is going to constrain other moves. Patrice Bergeron played last year for a $2.5mm cap hit. That's because his main priority was winning another Cup. Kopitar was looking to maximize the earnings he could make over his career. Bergeron has career earnings of $96mm. Kopitar is already over $120mm before we add in the additional $14mm extension. In my opinion, that is gross selfishness on AK's part, and we should have kindly shown him the door for anything over $5mm. Is his production worth it? Probably, but does it get us closer to the Cup? Highly doubtful.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
Prospects under 25 making the kings is like trying to get an entry level job but being told you need 6 years experience first
how am i supposed to get the experience
well you gotta show us youre good
how can i show you i'm good when you don't give me more than a few minutes to do so
f*** this guy's attitude, waive/trade him, hire a geriatric on their way out
how am i supposed to get the experience
well you gotta show us youre good
how can i show you i'm good when you don't give me more than a few minutes to do so
f*** this guy's attitude, waive/trade him, hire a geriatric on their way out
kilowatt
the vibes are not immaculate
- Jan 1, 2009
- 18,700
- 21,800
Since Blake took over in 2017, here's a look at our first and second round picks:
2017
1.11: Vilardi (Off the roster)
2.41: JAD (Bust)
2018
1.20: Kupari (Off the roster)
2.51: Thomas (Injuries? Bust?)
2019
1.05: Turcotte (Bust)
1.22: Bjornfot (Bust)
2.33: Kaliyev (TBD, I'm not optimistic)
2.50: Fagemo (Off the roster)
2020
1.02: Byfield (TBD, also not optimistic)
2.35: Grans (Off the roster)
2.45: Faber (Off the roster)
2021
1.08: Clarke (TBD)
2.42: Pinelli (TBD)
2.59: Helenius (TBD)
2022
2.41: Hughes (TBD, but have we ever drafted a second round pick with less fanfare than this guy?)
2023
2.54: Dvorak (TBD, but see above)
The fact is, we have a single pick that we've developed: Mikey Anderson, 4th round, 2017. Spence and Laferriere are looking like they could be decent picks as well.
Should we talk about trades? Let's do it. Blake's not afraid to make trades. He made some big splashes with Fiala and Dubois. But let's take a look at a few of the other ones. We ultimately traded Muzzin for a fourth liner (Grundstrom), a third pairing defenseman (Bjornfot) and a second round pick (Durzi). We traded Tanner Pearson for Carl Hagelin, who we then traded for nothing (Lukas Parik). We traded Alec Martinez for basically nothing (ultimately, Francesco Pinelli and Lias Andersson). We retained 50% on Jeff Carter for literally nothing. And we traded the best player in franchise history (Jonathan Quick) for no reason, only for him to win a cup with our biggest rival. I'm not saying teams need to win every trade, but I don't think we should be consistently losing them.
2017
1.11: Vilardi (Off the roster)
2.41: JAD (Bust)
2018
1.20: Kupari (Off the roster)
2.51: Thomas (Injuries? Bust?)
2019
1.05: Turcotte (Bust)
1.22: Bjornfot (Bust)
2.33: Kaliyev (TBD, I'm not optimistic)
2.50: Fagemo (Off the roster)
2020
1.02: Byfield (TBD, also not optimistic)
2.35: Grans (Off the roster)
2.45: Faber (Off the roster)
2021
1.08: Clarke (TBD)
2.42: Pinelli (TBD)
2.59: Helenius (TBD)
2022
2.41: Hughes (TBD, but have we ever drafted a second round pick with less fanfare than this guy?)
2023
2.54: Dvorak (TBD, but see above)
The fact is, we have a single pick that we've developed: Mikey Anderson, 4th round, 2017. Spence and Laferriere are looking like they could be decent picks as well.
Should we talk about trades? Let's do it. Blake's not afraid to make trades. He made some big splashes with Fiala and Dubois. But let's take a look at a few of the other ones. We ultimately traded Muzzin for a fourth liner (Grundstrom), a third pairing defenseman (Bjornfot) and a second round pick (Durzi). We traded Tanner Pearson for Carl Hagelin, who we then traded for nothing (Lukas Parik). We traded Alec Martinez for basically nothing (ultimately, Francesco Pinelli and Lias Andersson). We retained 50% on Jeff Carter for literally nothing. And we traded the best player in franchise history (Jonathan Quick) for no reason, only for him to win a cup with our biggest rival. I'm not saying teams need to win every trade, but I don't think we should be consistently losing them.
I was shocked by the 7 million for Kopitar for two more years.
Eventually, PL should slide up as the 1C and Byfield should slide in 2C (with Danault as 3C). This basically says Byfield is playing wing for three more seasons.
It only leaves one center position open, the 4C. Turcotte, Thomas, and Helenius (next season) should/could all by vying for the 4C but now, it looks like AT LEAST Thomas and Helenius will be switched to wing for the near future.
And the Kings appear to love Blake Lizotte, so where does that leave Turcotte, Thomas, Byfield and Helenius???
Eventually, PL should slide up as the 1C and Byfield should slide in 2C (with Danault as 3C). This basically says Byfield is playing wing for three more seasons.
It only leaves one center position open, the 4C. Turcotte, Thomas, and Helenius (next season) should/could all by vying for the 4C but now, it looks like AT LEAST Thomas and Helenius will be switched to wing for the near future.
And the Kings appear to love Blake Lizotte, so where does that leave Turcotte, Thomas, Byfield and Helenius???
King'sPawn
Enjoy the chaos
- Jul 1, 2003
- 23,166
- 24,027
The thing is, with Kopitar and Doughty, they are the type of players you can't expect to develop a player into. So, I don't think you trade them. And trying to tank doesn't work either if you can't develop young talent into top end talent.
If a player like Fiala is what they wanted, they should have tried to draft and develop a player like Fiala and try a controlled cost. Same with PLD. All these players who the Kings are trading assets for are not EASY to obtain, but they are achievable if put into the right environment to grow. Then you trade assets to supplement the core you build, or to get more picks to try and develop the talent.
In the cap era, it's vital to find ways to have cost-controlled talent. Because trading assets for and extending mercenaries is what we're seeing right now.
Kings have lost or traded Faber, Vilardi, Kupari, and Fagemo for a grand total of two first round exits.
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