GDT: Training Camp 2023

[Ollie Weeks]

Good discussion that highlights how bad this teams’s group toughness is but also how pointless it is to bring in a knuckledragger to wallpaper over the problem.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Hodgson and Connataun were tossed and Helenius was basically about to jump off the bench.

So then what’s the point if they’re not on the ice or getting tossed? Nothing they did deterred VGK from taking Clarke’s lunch money. In fact, Hodgson actually put Clarke in a vulnerable position by running Stone and starting the animosity.

None of these camp tough guys are good enough for the NHL. It’s just a fact of reality. If we dress a team of Hodgsons and Connatauns, we’ll be tough, sure. And we’ll lose 50+ games.

To ice a tough team in the modern NHL, you need to find it in skill positions. Wilson, Tkachuk, Lucic in his prime. All of these guys can contribute beyond “being tough.”

I agree that the Kings are soft and it’s a problem. But the solution is not to dress a bunch of bad players just to shore up toughness.

 

[BaileyFan]

Good discussion that highlights how bad this teams’s group toughness is but also how pointless it is to bring in a knuckledragger to wallpaper over the problem.

Them thinking Doughty would be the one to move against Stone cracked me up.

 

[Ollie Weeks]

Them thinking Doughty would be the one to move against Stone cracked me up.

Yep, and that’s totally the point. It should be but it isn’t.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

PLD will probably be given a long look with Fiala. He fit well with Kyle Connor, who has that same speed, agility, and shot that Fiala does. It took PLD a while to sync with Connor too, but once they did Connor's numbers went through the roof.

And Ehlers, who is also similar to Fiala. I can't imagine putting either guy anywhere else in the lineup given construction.

Pinelli is weird.

He has Jake Debrusk potential but goes invisible some games like Akil Thomas does.

Pinelli is still just really fresh, he needs a year or two of seasoning. He's a heady player, he will figure it out. He already took a step this year looking ahead at camp; next year he'll be a more impactful player in preseason and the A before being 'ready'ish the following year.

Copied from ducks GDT

What I'd like to see at this point:


Byfield-Kopitar-Kempe
Turcotte-PLD-Fiala
Moore-Danault-Arvidsson
Thomas-Lizotte-Lewis
Grundstrom or Hodgson


send down JAD, Fagemo, Laf (who will be the first callup), Kaliyev (to get some actual minutes in and be the next man up, no point in spending another year complaining about his deployment, and he's still free of waivers). Flipflop Arvidsson and Turcotte maybe to check chemistry. I don't think you can waive Thomas until you see what he's got.


Doughty-Anderson
Gavrikov-Clarke
Spence-Roy
Moverare


Gives you options for up-one or down-one situations at the end of games as well as special teams
send down Bjornfot (claimed--needs a fresh start not here apparently), Connauton, Englund (send him to the ECHL, we need toughness that can play, not medicore toughness that can't take a regular shift without being a liability).

 

[KingsHockey24]

Them thinking Doughty would be the one to move against Stone cracked me up.

At least other fan bases know we have zero toughness.

They mentioned Doughty and or Gavrikov being the go to guys to drop the mitts..

 

[Johnny Utah]

The Kings have toughness, they just have too many overpaid or old players taking up spots that youth or toughness should play in.

We have Helenius, Hodgson, Doty, and Englund.

Did Moore deserve over 4 million for one good year?

Why sign Lewis? He's old and his Corsi isn't even good.

That's two spots right there for two of Turcotte, Laffy, Hodgson, Thomas, Fagemo...

Now the Kings risk losing a good player because of overpayment.

 

[KingsHockey24]

The Kings have toughness, they just have too many overpaid or old players taking up spots that youth or toughness should play in.

We have Helenius, Hodgson, Doty, and Englund.

Did Moore deserve over 4 million for one good year?

Why sign Lewis? He's old and his Corsi isn't even good.

That's two spots right there for two of Turcotte, Laffy, Hodgson, Thomas, Fagemo...

Now the Kings risk losing a good player because of overpayment.

Respectfully none of these are great hockey players though. Englund is a lot worse than I thought; guess I should've known when Colorado preferred playing MacDermid over him. Doty is a career AHL'er. Hodgson can probably play 10-15 games with us, and Helenius should probably spend at least one more season in the AHL.

 

[ScoreZeGoals]

The Kings have toughness, they just have too many overpaid or old players taking up spots that youth or toughness should play in.

We have Helenius, Hodgson, Doty, and Englund.

Did Moore deserve over 4 million for one good year?

Why sign Lewis? He's old and his Corsi isn't even good.

That's two spots right there for two of Turcotte, Laffy, Hodgson, Thomas, Fagemo...

Now the Kings risk losing a good player because of overpayment.

Not one of those players should be taking regular NHL shifts in 2023. Helenius is a question mark as to what he might be one day, and the other three are AHL players

 

[AbsentMojo]

Why sign Lewis? He's old and his Corsi isn't even good.

His breath isnt even good. Im foggy on the reasoning behind the signing. Did Blake ever explain it - and does anyone on the board like it? If its for PK specialty.. that isnt a good enough reason to block someone younger from finding a role.

 

[Herby]

Not one of those players should be taking regular NHL shifts in 2023. Helenius is a question mark as to what he might be one day, and the other three are AHL players

There is still room for toughness in the NHL, but the players have to be able to play. 30 years ago Doty probably has an NHL career, but today, in a cap league you can’t sacrifice one line to be tough. Toughness has to be more of a unit thing than an individual one, and I know many like BigKing and Johnny question the team toughness. And I think those concerns are valid, but the solution is not an AHL goon playing with Lizotte and Turcotte/Grundsteom/Laf. This team needs 3 good lines and 1 competent one to contend this year.

 

[kingsfan28]

NHL tryout vs. superstar tune-up: When the preseason balancing act turns nasty

How do coaches and players balance injury risk with game reps as they prepare for the regular season?

theathletic.com

Pretty solid breakdown of the Stone incident. Doughty with some good quotes.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Helenius has a future in la. He’s big, tough and can win faceoffs. He’s always pushing opponents away after stoppages in play near the goalie. He’s got some bite.

 

[King'sPawn]

NHL tryout vs. superstar tune-up: When the preseason balancing act turns nasty

How do coaches and players balance injury risk with game reps as they prepare for the regular season?

theathletic.com

Pretty solid breakdown of the Stone incident. Doughty with some good quotes.

Agreed. And again, preseason is to help players get back into a rhythm. Does Stone think he won't be susceptible to big hits in the regular season? It doesn't matter if he thinks Hodgson is a nobody. He'll get hit in the season just as much.

And I get Stone, Doughty, etc are competitive guys. Doughty's right that Stone was just heated. It's still a bad look to act that way after getting smoked by a largely minor-league player.

 

[kilowatt]

Good discussion that highlights how bad this teams’s group toughness is but also how pointless it is to bring in a knuckledragger to wallpaper over the problem.

This is why fourth line tough guys are so pointless. Mark Stone is not going to fight Andreas Englund. Fiala, Kempe, and Danault are feisty, and maybe they'll start shit with Stone, but we know Doughty and Kopitar aren't going to do it. Our toughness issues aren't because our sixth defenseman and twelfth forward are undersized. We've got a bunch of important guys who shy away from contact.

 

[King'sPawn]

So, several players were quietly released from their tryouts, and Kaleb Lawrence was assigned back to Owen Sound of the OHL.

But the first major round of cuts will be tomorrow, I'd guess (mostly to accommodate for the Ontario Reign training camp). We'll probably hear of players getting waived as well.

I think we'll see the following players waived and/or sent down to AHL/juniors:
JAD, Tynan, Madden, Thomas, Chromiak, Doty, Lee, Maltsev, Ward, Hudon, Pinelli, Helenius, Ziemmer (WHL), Connauton, Hicketts, Krygier, Booth (QMJHL), Portillo

Which would leave the following forwards, with more cuts upcoming of course:
Forwards (16):
Kempe, Kopitar, Moore, Fiala, Danault, Arvidsson, Kaliyev*, Turcotte*, Lizotte, Byfield*, Hodgson, Lewis, Fagemo, Laferriere*, PLD, Grundstrom

Defense (9):
Roy, Englund, Bjornfot, Doughty, Moverare, Anderson, Spence*, Gavrikov, Clarke*

Goalies (3):
Copley, Rittich, Talbot

That would leave them with 28 roster players. At LEAST 5 more need to be made to trim it down to 23, but will likely need to send a couple more down to be cap compliant.

*Waiver exempt

 

[KingsOfCali25]

Where are these "tough" guys? It has to be less than 15 league wide.

Ana: M. Jones, Gudas
Ari: Boyd, O'Brien
Bos: Lucic
Buf: Clifton
Cgy: Zadorov
Car: Bunting, Lemieux
Chi: N. Foligno, Perry
Col: MacDermid
Cbj: Jenner
Dal: Benn
Det: Copp, Kostin
Edm: Nurse, E. Kane
Fla: M. Tkachuk,
Lak: Englund (if he makes it)
Min: M. Foligno, Maroon, Khaira
Mtl: Xhekaj
Nsh: L. Schenn
Njd: Bahl
Nyi: Martin, Johnston
Nyr: Trouba, K. Miller
Ott: B. Tkachuk, McEwan, Zub
Phi: Hathaway, Seeler, Deslauriers
Pit: Graves
Sjs: MacDonald
Sea: Dunn, Megna
Stl: Blais
Tbl: Cernak, Bogosian
Tor: Reaves
Van: Myers
Vgk: Kolesar
Wsh: Wilson
Wpg: Dillon

What you need is skill guys that can play with an edge. Not liabilities on the ice that can't play and only take penalties. I think LA needed to go after a guy like Comtois over Lewis. A decade younger but more physical with the same scoring output. Also wanted Kostin and Zadorov but to each there own.

 

[KingsOfCali25]

So, several players were quietly released from their tryouts, and Kaleb Lawrence was assigned back to Owen Sound of the OHL.

But the first major round of cuts will be tomorrow, I'd guess (mostly to accommodate for the Ontario Reign training camp). We'll probably hear of players getting waived as well.

I think we'll see the following players waived and/or sent down to AHL/juniors:
JAD, Tynan, Madden, Thomas, Chromiak, Doty, Lee, Maltsev, Ward, Hudon, Pinelli, Helenius, Ziemmer (WHL), Connauton, Hicketts, Krygier, Booth (QMJHL), Portillo

Which would leave the following forwards, with more cuts upcoming of course:
Forwards (16):
Kempe, Kopitar, Moore, Fiala, Danault, Arvidsson, Kaliyev*, Turcotte*, Lizotte, Byfield*, Hodgson, Lewis, Fagemo, Laferriere*, PLD, Grundstrom

Defense (9):
Roy, Englund, Bjornfot, Doughty, Moverare, Anderson, Spence*, Gavrikov, Clarke*

Goalies (3):
Copley, Rittich, Talbot

That would leave them with 28 roster players. At LEAST 5 more need to be made to trim it down to 23, but will likely need to send a couple more down to be cap compliant.

*Waiver exempt

You think JAD and Thomas get waived this early? You don't think LA would like more looks at them and will try to sneak them through waivers on the last day?

So to get to 21 (cap wise) it would need 7 more.

1) Rittich/Copley
2) Hodgson
3) Englund
4) Moverare
5) Spence/Clarke
6) Turcotte
7) Lafreniere

 

[Fishhead]

Yeah, they are really going to have to be creative.

The Kings could have a 22 man roster including Turcotte, Byfield, Kaliyev, Lewis, Bjornfot, Clarke, and Spence - all who make under a million - and still not be camp compliant (according to capfriendly, which I haven't checked for accuracy). Englund at $1M is too expensive right now.

Some things they can do to help:

1. Try to get Grundstrom through waivers

2. Go with Talbot and Rittich

Spence/Clarke might go down not because of waiver eligibility, but because they are $50K more expensive than Bjornfot and Moverare. It's that tight.

This lineup:

Kempe-Kopitar-Byfield
Kaliyev-PLD-Fiala
Moore-Danault-Arvidsson
Laferriere-Lizotte-Lewis
Turcotte

Anderson-Doughty
Gavrikov-Roy
Bjornfot-Clarke
Spence

Copley
Talbot

is still over the cap..

 

[Fishhead]

The Kings have toughness, they just have too many overpaid or old players taking up spots that youth or toughness should play in.

We have Helenius, Hodgson, Doty, and Englund.

Did Moore deserve over 4 million for one good year?

Why sign Lewis? He's old and his Corsi isn't even good.

That's two spots right there for two of Turcotte, Laffy, Hodgson, Thomas, Fagemo...

Now the Kings risk losing a good player because of overpayment.

Lewis makes less than Turcotte, Laffy, and Hodgson.

And Ehlers, who is also similar to Fiala. I can't imagine putting either guy anywhere else in the lineup given construction.



Pinelli is still just really fresh, he needs a year or two of seasoning. He's a heady player, he will figure it out. He already took a step this year looking ahead at camp; next year he'll be a more impactful player in preseason and the A before being 'ready'ish the following year.

Copied from ducks GDT

What I'd like to see at this point:


Byfield-Kopitar-Kempe
Turcotte-PLD-Fiala
Moore-Danault-Arvidsson
Thomas-Lizotte-Lewis
Grundstrom or Hodgson


send down JAD, Fagemo, Laf (who will be the first callup), Kaliyev (to get some actual minutes in and be the next man up, no point in spending another year complaining about his deployment, and he's still free of waivers). Flipflop Arvidsson and Turcotte maybe to check chemistry. I don't think you can waive Thomas until you see what he's got.


Doughty-Anderson
Gavrikov-Clarke
Spence-Roy
Moverare


Gives you options for up-one or down-one situations at the end of games as well as special teams
send down Bjornfot (claimed--needs a fresh start not here apparently), Connauton, Englund (send him to the ECHL, we need toughness that can play, not medicore toughness that can't take a regular shift without being a liability).

That roster is over the cap, even with Hodgson who makes way less than Grundstrom. It's around $100K too much, even with all those ELC's.

 

[Fishhead]

So 21 looks like the magic roster number unless some relatively unexpected moves are made. I'm guessing they go with 7D and 12F, since it's easier to replace a forward in a pinch. If they want 22, somethings gotta give.

Grundstrom being waived makes it tighter, but replacing him with our cheapest forwards still isn't quite enough.

Lizotte could be moved. Doubtful because of his utility and value.

Moving Roy would mean 22, but is there that much confidence in Clarke or Spence on the 2nd pairing?

Swapping Copley for Rittich saves $625K.

Not sure what they'll do. Moving Roy would be the most painful, but only one move would have to be made. It's f***ing ridiculous when swapping Lewis with Laferriere puts you over

 

[King'sPawn]

You think JAD and Thomas get waived this early? You don't think LA would like more looks at them and will try to sneak them through waivers on the last day?

So to get to 21 (cap wise) it would need 7 more.

1) Rittich/Copley
2) Hodgson
3) Englund
4) Moverare
5) Spence/Clarke
6) Turcotte
7) Lafreniere

I wouldn't be surprised if they do. I just don't think they'll get any additional preseason action, and they've just not done enough to separate themselves from the other AHL players.

 

[Statto]

I wouldn't be surprised if they do. I just don't think they'll get any additional preseason action, and they've just not done enough to separate themselves from the other AHL players.

I think Thomas and JAD are more likely to clear if they get sent down now.

 

[King'sPawn]

Yeah, they are really going to have to be creative.

The Kings could have a 22 man roster including Turcotte, Byfield, Kaliyev, Lewis, Bjornfot, Clarke, and Spence - all who make under a million - and still not be camp compliant (according to capfriendly, which I haven't checked for accuracy). Englund at $1M is too expensive right now.

Some things they can do to help:

1. Try to get Grundstrom through waivers

2. Go with Talbot and Rittich

Spence/Clarke might go down not because of waiver eligibility, but because they are $50K more expensive than Bjornfot and Moverare. It's that tight.

This lineup:

Kempe-Kopitar-Byfield
Kaliyev-PLD-Fiala
Moore-Danault-Arvidsson
Laferriere-Lizotte-Lewis
Turcotte

Anderson-Doughty
Gavrikov-Roy
Bjornfot-Clarke
Spence

Copley
Talbot

is still over the cap..

Hoping for an injury to bail out your bad decision-making is never a good plan, but welcome to the Rob Blake school of team management.

I think Thomas and JAD are more likely to clear if they get sent down now.

That's true. Ty Smith is a recent first-round pick who cleared. Lassi Thomson was also waived, and he's a first-round pick from 2019. It's unknown if he'll clear yet.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Added a bunch of names. Every team has at least two guys who can throw. Basically, Kings are softest team in NHL.

Penguins and Devils close 2nd but they have Acari and Brendan Smith.

There is a reason why Hodson and Doty are playing and Kings signed Englund. Because we are SOFT.

Where are these "tough" guys? It has to be less than 15 league wide.

Ana: M. Jones, Gudas - Carrick and possibly Kassian
Ari: Boyd, O'Brien - Brown, Crowse
Bos: Lucic - Greer, Frederic
Buf: Clifton - Greenway, Stillman
Cgy: Zadorov, Klapka
Car: Bunting, Lemieux, DeAngelo
Chi: N. Foligno, Perry - Tinordi
Col: MacDermid, Wood, Landeskog
Cbj: Jenner - Olivier, Gudbranson
Dal: Benn, Marchment
Det: Copp, Kostin
Edm: Nurse, E. Kane, Hyman, Desharnais
Fla: M. Tkachuk - Bennett, Lomberg
Lak: Englund (if he makes it)
Min: M. Foligno, Maroon, Khaira - Middleton
Mtl: Xhekaj, Anderson,
Nsh: L. Schenn, McCarron
Njd: Bahl, B. Smith
Nyi: Martin, Johnston
Nyr: Trouba, K. Miller, Goodrow
Ott: B. Tkachuk, McEwan, Zub, Kastellic
Phi: Hathaway, Seeler, Deslauriers
Pit: Graves, Acari, Petterson
Sjs: MacDonald, Sabourin, G. Smith
Sea: Dunn, Megna, - Oleksiak
Stl: Blais, Schenn, Bortuzzo
Tbl: Cernak, Bogosian, Jeanott
Tor: Reaves, Clifford, Domi
Van: Myers, Joshua
Vgk: Kolesar, Hague
Wsh: Wilson, Edumdson
Wpg: Dillon, Lowry

What you need is skill guys that can play with an edge. Not liabilities on the ice that can't play and only take penalties. I think LA needed to go after a guy like Comtois over Lewis. A decade younger but more physical with the same scoring output. Also wanted Kostin and Zadorov but to each there own.