GDT: Training Camp 2023

[Fishhead]

The Kings prospects weren't a top 10 group because they had just spent the last five years winning two cups and going to a WCF and the other two making the playoffs. They had no top prospects because they weren't getting high picks.

It's not revisionist. It's just the truth. Blake inherited a mid/late-20's core with room under the cap, got two top-5 picks, and he's done nothing with it. They're WORSE off than they were when Lombardi left in terms of results. The only thing Blake has done is get a couple of shiny new toys in Free Agency that, while good players, have done nothing to further the team towards winning something. They were bad timing signings and they'll be that no matter how well they play here.

Yes, but he also had a lot of bad contracts, basically the pay-the-piper ones that enabled the team to stay under the cap to win cups in the first place. So that certainly balances it out. He basically got Kopitar, Quick, and Doughty who were great. After those 3, you had Brown, Gaborik, and Carter making big chunks of money and were starting to fall apart due to age and performing below their cap hits. On top of that they were paying for the Richards fiasco.

They didn't have any room under the cap, that's why he had to dump a lot of guys to get the retool started. He didn't inherit a tenable squad. If the team was even decent at the time, DL wouldn't have been fired. They were a complete tire fire with nothing in the cupboard. Two top-5 picks isn't much to rebuild an entire team when you have Brown making a crapload of money, buyout penalties, and a lot of guys not playing up to their salaries. Lombardi kicked the can down the line like he should have done to win, but Blake really did inherit a lot of that mess.

So it's not the truth. 3 guys kind of pulling their weight are not a signed cup core, especially when the second tier is underperforming and overpaid. The complaining about how overpaid Kopitar and Doughty were was all over these boards, even though they were our best pieces.

Blake should be doing better, without a doubt. And he should get canned if there isn't a big chunk of improvement this year. But let's not pretend that he inherited a well-positioned team, the roster and prospect system were broken far beyond fixing, and it took a few years to even dig out of that hole and get to moving forward again.

 

[All The Kings Men]

 

[All The Kings Men]

https://x.com/KingsMenPodcast/status/1707501490267705570?s=20

 

[bland]

Wait, what? What about all the crap Lombardi left behind? When Blake took over, the prospect pool was among the worst in the league. Many pubs had them ranked in the high 20's and even #30. What about the high priced underperforming vets that needed to be jettisoned?

This is kind of a weird alternate history, we all knew the team was complete shit and needed to be torn apart when DL was fired. You make it sound like Lombardi left Blake all this good stuff, when his last few years were about as destructive as you can be.

And pretty much every team has world class infrastructure, a top notch training facility, and a fully fleshed out scouting system. He had 3 top 10 picks in 7 years, and none in his first 3 drafts. And a lot of teams spend to the maximum. None of that stuff is special in any way.

I don't really disagree with the lack of success, that's on Blake for sure. But that statement above has to be one of the most revisionist things I've ever seen on here.

You are misunderstanding my point- the first mistake made by Blake was NOT tearing it down. He incorrectly assumed that he could reinvigorate the situation using the Cup core but instead of making shrewd assessments he cashed in his space on a guy who hadn't played in years, had a questionable attitude and a playing style that was never going to mesh with his roster. He brought in a series of faded vets like Cammalleri, Jokinen, Mitchell, Phanuef, etc all for a losing cause. He went for it when he should have folded and used the situation to his advantage by selling the rebuild to the fan base from the get go.

Then when that didn't work, he reacted by selling everything but the Cup core, leading to what could and should have been a longterm investment in youth.

Then, in another reactionary move, he allowed the Cup core to convince him that they shouldn't put the organization's efforts into the rebuild, and he used all of the cap space cleared in the purge to sign players to lengthy contracts in positions that blockade the kids he just drafted from reaching their potential.

He followed that up by deciding that they were a contender who couldn't afford to let kids learn on the job, so they were put into positions they weren't suited for AND damaged the current rosters chances by not filling key role player slots with vets who could do those jobs well and cheaply. You cannot expect Kaliyev and Kupari to grind out leads, and they certainly aren't learning to be offensive producers. You can't succeed with 4 RHDs.

You go out and overspend to bring in a non-star but big name like Dubois and max him out, but you can't afford anything other than journeymen goalies, or even keep a full compliment of 23 players EVEN though you have multiple kids that will have to clear waivers that you would like to keep but your slow boiling developmental program has prevented them from being NHL ready on a contender.

What's the plan here? Its all a series of poor decisions leading to route changing poor reactions.

 

[Bandit]

I don’t have NHL network despite paying extortionate amounts to watch streaming on directv and ESPN+

This. The NHL showing how bush league it can be year in year out.

 

[Surf Nutz]

The Kings prospects weren't a top 10 group because they had just spent the last five years winning two cups and going to a WCF and the other two making the playoffs. They had no top prospects because they weren't getting high picks.

It's not revisionist. It's just the truth. Blake inherited a mid/late-20's core with room under the cap, got two top-5 picks, and he's done nothing with it. They're WORSE off than they were when Lombardi left in terms of results. The only thing Blake has done is get a couple of shiny new toys in Free Agency that, while good players, have done nothing to further the team towards winning something. They were bad timing signings and they'll be that no matter how well they play here.

It doesn't matter why you are where you are when a new regime takes over.

It just matters where you are and Blake had to dig himself out of a prospect hole.

Blake inherited a lot of players that would not do well in a retool but he made sure and gave them a shot.


The fact that FA's signed long term is an indication that they liked the potential they see.

How can you say
Danault
Fiala
PLD
were bad signings.

Posters here are getting emotional and over exaggerating SOME of this stuff.
QUOTE="DoktorJeep, post: 191652146, member: 27618"]
Thomas made the biggest statement in camp since Vilardi last year. I watched the video recap of his goals and it was impressive. He was clutch against an opponent who was stacked and on the ice at key moments. Wish I caught it live, but I don’t have NHL network despite paying extortionate amounts to watch streaming on directv and ESPN+.

DRECTTV is even worse than cable, don't pay Disney.

You can bet other teams have taken notice.

I would consider sending down all non waiver eligible players , for further evaluation of waiver eligible guys and to see if you can at least get a pick,

Blake would be concerned about impacting their confidence however.

And TMac is on the chopping block (Don't Buy the alleged votes of confidence) he is going to want to win from the start and not take chances on playoff positioning at the end of the season.

 

[DoktorJeep]

This. The NHL showing how bush league it can be year in year out.

It’s a pile of garbage. The Knights are offering $70 for the bulk of the regular season and first round playoffs on streaming. I pay $110 a month combined for DTV and ESPN+.

 

[KingsOfCali25]

Sounds like the team is complete with maybe the last LHD spot open per TM. Spence starts in the AHL. Turcotte is AHL bound. The only spot fight left is Bjornfot and Englund.

Byfield-Kopitar-Kempe
Fiala-PLD-Kaliyev
Moore-Danault-Arvidsson
Grundstrum-Lizotte-Lewis
JAD

Anderson-Doughty
Gavrikov-Roy
Bjornfot/Englund-Clarke

Copley
Talbot

It doesn't matter why you are where you are when a new regime takes over.

It just matters where you are and Blake had to dig himself out of a prospect hole.

Blake inherited a lot of players that would not do well in a retool but he made sure and gave them a shot.


The fact that FA's signed long term is an indication that they liked the potential they see.

How can you say
Danault
Fiala
PLD
were bad signings.

Posters here are getting emotional and over exaggerating SOME of this stuff.
QUOTE="DoktorJeep, post: 191652146, member: 27618"]
Thomas made the biggest statement in camp since Vilardi last year. I watched the video recap of his goals and it was impressive. He was clutch against an opponent who was stacked and on the ice at key moments. Wish I caught it live, but I don’t have NHL network despite paying extortionate amounts to watch streaming on directv and ESPN+.

DRECTTV is even worse than cable, don't pay Disney.

You can bet other teams have taken notice.

I would consider sending down all non waiver eligible players , for further evaluation of waiver eligible guys and to see if you can at least get a pick,

Blake would be concerned about impacting their confidence however.

And TMac is on the chopping block (Don't Buy the alleged votes of confidence) he is going to want to win from the start and not take chances on playoff positioning at the end of the season.

Just get Fubo TV with the sports package. Way cheaper than DirecTV and you get NHL network and Bally's to watch the Kings.

 

[Fishhead]

You are misunderstanding my point- the first mistake made by Blake was NOT tearing it down. He incorrectly assumed that he could reinvigorate the situation using the Cup core but instead of making shrewd assessments he cashed in his space on a guy who hadn't played in years, had a questionable attitude and a playing style that was never going to mesh with his roster. He brought in a series of faded vets like Cammalleri, Jokinen, Mitchell, Phanuef, etc all for a losing cause. He went for it when he should have folded and used the situation to his advantage by selling the rebuild to the fan base from the get go.

Then when that didn't work, he reacted by selling everything but the Cup core, leading to what could and should have been a longterm investment in youth.

Then, in another reactionary move, he allowed the Cup core to convince him that they shouldn't put the organization's efforts into the rebuild, and he used all of the cap space cleared in the purge to sign players to lengthy contracts in positions that blockade the kids he just drafted from reaching their potential.

He followed that up by deciding that they were a contender who couldn't afford to let kids learn on the job, so they were put into positions they weren't suited for AND damaged the current rosters chances by not filling key role player slots with vets who could do those jobs well and cheaply. You cannot expect Kaliyev and Kupari to grind out leads, and they certainly aren't learning to be offensive producers. You can't succeed with 4 RHDs.

You go out and overspend to bring in a non-star but big name like Dubois and max him out, but you can't afford anything other than journeymen goalies, or even keep a full compliment of 23 players EVEN though you have multiple kids tht will have to clear waivers that you would like to keep but your slow boiling developmental program has prevented them from being NHL ready on a contender.

What's the plan here? Its all a series of poor decisions leading to route changing poor reactions.

I totally get all that, and I agree with most of it. I just don't think he inherited anything worth crap and was behind the 8 ball from the start. Didn't mean to misunderstand.

He did fine after that first terrible season but then didn't go quite far enough for my tastes. I think it's fair to give him a pass on not ripping it all up immediately, with only one offseason it's difficult to totally revamp a team, especially when what you have is not good value and no one is lining up to help you after steamrolling them for a few seasons. Once he started selling he did OK.

I think the plan was to keep Kopitar, Doughty, and Quick/Petersen and do a quick rebuild. That sort of thing can work, but margins are razor thin, so when the goalies fell apart is was a much bigger issue than for a team in the complete building process. Should he have ripped it up completely? Maybe, but full rebuilds fail all the time. Teams win the cup now without completely building from the bottom just as much as teams that do.

I'm not as convinced as you there is no way it can work. A few things need to fall into place but it's not insurmountable. Some of the early betting lines are putting the Kings in the top 10 in odds, a good amount of pubs are picking them to win the division, so it's not just fantasy. Either way we will know this year if it's on the right track. I think next season is a better bet to completely fill out the roster as there is more cap available, But they've got to show a ton this year or a change is in order.

 

[Telos]

Good interview, I like a lot of TMac's answers and liked what he said about Kaliyev. I wish someone would ask him about our systems, especially special teams though.

 

[tny760]

Sounds like the team is complete with maybe the last LHD spot open per TM. Spence starts in the AHL. Turcotte is AHL bound. The only spot fight left is Bjornfot and Englund.

Byfield-Kopitar-Kempe
Fiala-PLD-Kaliyev
Moore-Danault-Arvidsson
Grundstrum-Lizotte-Lewis
JAD

Anderson-Doughty
Gavrikov-Roy
Bjornfot/Englund-Clarke

Copley
Talbot


Just get Fubo TV with the sports package. Way cheaper than DirecTV and you get NHL network and Bally's to watch the Kings.

gut tells me bjornfot-clarke could be a pretty dynamic 3rd pairing but i also have a feeling todd would default to englund

honestly i don't hate that lineup of skaters top to bottom, 3 pretty solid lines and a net-neutral 4th

 

[bland]

gut tells me bjornfot-clarke could be a pretty dynamic 3rd pairing but i also have a feeling todd would default to englund

honestly i don't hate that lineup of skaters top to bottom, 3 pretty solid lines and a net-neutral 4th

A Clarke/Bjornfot/Englund 5/6/7 triad is probably their best bet, with Spence in the AHL being the unfortunate ramification. Spence would have been a regular last year in almost every other organization, but Blake just had to putz around with Durzi and Walker.

I hope they don't include Spence in the inevitable goalie deal. If they cannot re-sign Roy it would be such a poor (but perfectly predictable) scenario to see that vaunted RHD depth turned into just an aging Doughty and Clarke next year.

 

[Herby]

As much as I really wanted a complete tear down, really all he needed to do was get a good ROI out of either of his top 5 picks or an excellent one out of the #11 pick and they really could have made the quick reload work. The failure to net an impact player as of now out of any of his first four first rounders is what really set the Kings back.

But considering he inherited two $10m players and added two top 5 picks within 3 years the expectation would be that there was at least one young game breaker in the lineup.

I do see where both sides are coming from, DL did leave the cupboard bare and left the team with a bunch of horrific contracts, but it’s been 6 years since Blake took over, you need to be able to draft better then they have done when you had the quality and quantity of 1-2 round picks.

 

[KingsHockey24]

Jacob Moverare >>> Englund and BJ so far.

I'd go as far and say the best has been Moverare followed by Connauton.

 

[bland]

Jacob Moverare >>> Englund and BJ so far.

I'd go as far and say the best has been Moverare followed by Connauton.

Bjornfot played very well in his one game. Just curious how you came to this conclusion.

But Englund most definitely did not impress. His physicality and size will most likely earn him that #7, but I agree, Moverare looked better for certain.

 

[Trash Panda]

Jacob Moverare >>> Englund and BJ so far.

I'd go as far and say the best has been Moverare followed by Connauton.

Toby played great in his lone game so far.

At worst, I feel like we should be looking at him and Englund (barf) swapping out on that 3rd pair left side.

 

[King'sPawn]

Moverare's making the decision tough on management, but I suspect the Kings will waive him and keep Bjornfot due to draft pedigree. Lower risk waiving him.

Going to be tough making a cap compliant roster and also hoping they don't lose some decent players for nothing. These younger/fringe players are all waiver eligible:

Grundstrom
Bjornfot
JAD
Fagemo
Englund
Thomas
Madden
Santini
Hicketts
Connauton
Tynan
Hodgson
Maltsev

Of course, many of those are easy calls. But it looks like the Kings will have to ice only 21 players. Assuming the shoo-ins are:

Byfield - Kopitar - Kempe
Fiala - PLD - Kaliyev
Moore - Danault - Arvidsson
Lewis - Lizotte

Anderson - Doughty
Gavrikov - Roy

Talbot
Copley

That leaves only 4 players they can keep up. One forward and two defense, with one in reserve. This is also assuming they send BOTH Clarke and Spence to the AHL, and I think we'd all be shocked if that happened.

Everyone else they'll need to chance losing to waivers.

So, that's the game. You keep 4 of the above. That number goes down by one for each of Clarke and Spence you keep up.

Of course, that number goes up if they were to decide to send Byfield and/or Kaliyev down to the AHL, as they don't require waivers.

That's what McLellan means by there are not a lot of spots open.

 

[AbsentMojo]

Moverare's making the decision tough on management, but I suspect the Kings will waive him and keep Bjornfot due to draft pedigree. Lower risk waiving him.

Going to be tough making a cap compliant roster and also hoping they don't lose some decent players for nothing. These younger/fringe players are all waiver eligible:

Grundstrom
Bjornfot
JAD
Fagemo
Englund
Thomas
Madden
Santini
Hicketts
Connauton
Tynan
Hodgson
Maltsev

Of course, many of those are easy calls. But it looks like the Kings will have to ice only 21 players. Assuming the shoo-ins are:

Byfield - Kopitar - Kempe
Fiala - PLD - Kaliyev
Moore - Danault - Arvidsson
Lewis - Lizotte

Anderson - Doughty
Gavrikov - Roy

Talbot
Copley

That leaves only 4 players they can keep up. One forward and two defense, with one in reserve. This is also assuming they send BOTH Clarke and Spence to the AHL, and I think we'd all be shocked if that happened.

Everyone else they'll need to chance losing to waivers.

So, that's the game. You keep 4 of the above. That number goes down by one for each of Clarke and Spence you keep up.

Of course, that number goes up if they were to decide to send Byfield and/or Kaliyev down to the AHL, as they don't require waivers.

That's what McLellan means by there are not a lot of spots open.

They'll do the wrong thing and create regret. Thats their specialty.

 

[Fishhead]

Who they keep up is going to have a lot to do with salary this year. The 225K between Tobi and Englund is actually significant.

Grundstrum is the only forward that really needs to worry, I think. The Kings have always deferred to guys who aren't waiver eligible, but if he gets outplayed substantially by either Alex the team would have to take a hard look at it.

 

[King'sPawn]

They'll do the wrong thing and create regret. Thats their specialty.

It's actually a reason why they should have played some of these younger players more. It would make the decision-making process more sensible, while also putting them in challenging situations to grow more.

Frankly, JAD has never looked so bad, and while the trip to Australia undoubtedly screwed with some of the players, he's the one who needs to work hardest at this point to stay up.

 

[AbsentMojo]

It's actually a reason why they should have played some of these younger players more. It would make the decision-making process more sensible, while also putting them in challenging situations to grow more.

Frankly, JAD has never looked so bad, and while the trip to Australia undoubtedly screwed with some of the players, he's the one who needs to work hardest at this point to stay up.

It would be low risk to let Kaliyev start in the A and give one of the waiver eligibles like Thomas a solid tryout to stick .. but they arent creative thinkers - they wont do that. They will lose a lot of talent because they kept plugging fwd spots with vets.. Lewis is a classic Blake move - preventing a younger guy from finding a role.

 

[KingsHockey24]

Lewis should not be guaranteed anything.

 

[bland]

Watch Vegas claim Hodgson to prove Stone right.

 

[Trash Panda]

It's actually a reason why they should have played some of these younger players more. It would make the decision-making process more sensible, while also putting them in challenging situations to grow more.

Frankly, JAD has never looked so bad, and while the trip to Australia undoubtedly screwed with some of the players, he's the one who needs to work hardest at this point to stay up.

I think at this point, A-D is a certainty to be placed on waivers, and I don’t think he has done enough to risk being claimed.

 

[Johnny Utah]

I love the fans who pencil in Bjornfot, who TM said in another recent quote "can't play vanilla anymore" and Spence/Clarke.

Did anyone watch Clarke get run about 3-4 times in Vegas. Luckily, he had Hodgson and Helenius there in case anything got out of hand.

Kings have no Lemieux, no McEwen - Englund is the only player who can play physical and fight. He will be the #6.

Unless the Kings dump one of Lewis, Lizotte, Grundstrom and sign Doty, recall Hodgson or bring someone else in Englund has that spot.