GDT: Training Camp 2023

  • Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates
Status
Not open for further replies.
These guys all should be entering this season knowing its do or die for all of them, not getting extensions beyond this season.

Have to agree with this. We’re also getting real close to danger time with Kopitar and Doughty. They’ve already lost a few steps. They’re better than I thought they’d be but they aren’t getting younger. We’ve had one first round draft pick success since our last cup (Kempe). At what point do we say we need to do some things differently?

To be clear, I don’t think that Blake or MacLellan have been terrible. They’re arguably the second-best GM/coach pair we’ve had in our history. But I just don’t think they’re good enough. That’s a really big difference. I’m not looking for pretty good. I’m not looking for “might challenge for the division title”. I just don’t think we have a cup-winning roster or coach. That’s really all there is to it.
 
Where you finish is more important than overall point, but overall points tracked year to year can tell a story as well...

There were not "A LOT" of teams constructed to lose, Chicago was one for sure, Anaheim, was another one, San Jose was one.....who were the other ones in your book? Let;s just stick to the Western Conference, unless you want to tackle everything?
Arizona, but in fairness they are constructed to lose every year.

But still, there is a reason 104 points still had them as firmly in 3rd as 99 did the year before. In fact, 104 points had them closer to 4th in the division than 99 did the year before. There is an obvious reason for that.
 
Have to agree with this. We’re also getting real close to danger time with Kopitar and Doughty. They’ve already lost a few steps. They’re better than I thought they’d be but they aren’t getting younger. We’ve had one first round draft pick success since our last cup (Kempe). At what point do we say we need to do some things differently?

To be clear, I don’t think that Blake or MacLellan have been terrible. They’re arguably the second-best GM/coach pair we’ve had in our history. But I just don’t think they’re good enough. That’s a really big difference. I’m not looking for pretty good. I’m not looking for “might challenge for the division title”. I just don’t think we have a cup-winning roster or coach. That’s really all there is to it.
How in the world do you justify calling Blake and McLellan the "second best"?

Have you only ever seen two?
 
Arizona, but in fairness they are constructed to lose every year.

But still, there is a reason 104 points still had them as firmly in 3rd as 99 did the year before. In fact, 104 points had them closer to 4th in the division than 99 did the year before. There is an obvious reason for that.

Ok...so tell me how 4 teams out of 16 is A LOT......and the other 12, had the SAME opportunity to play those teams equally (I think, in theory I think I am right but in reality, I might not be, no idea about the scheduling these days)

How in the world do you justify calling Blake and McLellan the "second best"?

Have you only ever seen two?

Lombardi/Sutter hands down 1st...everyone can agree,

For you, who is 2nd? Taylor? McMaster?
 
Ok...so tell me how 4 teams out of 16 is A LOT......and the other 12, had the SAME opportunity to play those teams equally (I think, in theory I think I am right but in reality, I might not be, no idea about the scheduling these days)



Lombardi/Sutter hands down 1st...everyone can agree,

For you, who is 2nd? Taylor? McMaster?

Yes, 4 out of 16 teams in a conference actively trying to lose is a lot. And yes GBH, the other 12 teams benefitted to, its basic math, it shouldn't be this hard to understand. That is why despite finishing with 104 points the Kings actually finished closer to the WC than the year before when they had 99. Teams like Seattle also benefitted from those teams sucking and that is why everyones point total went up. That is why it's a bit dishonest to hype up the teams point totals. The 21-22 and 22-23 teams finished exactly the same, a middling playoff team that lost in round 1. One team was just able to go 10-0-2 vs 4 teams not trying to win, and the other didn't have as many gimmes the year before.

Wayne Gretzky was the Kings GM in 1993 when the team had its 3rd best season ever, and he was basically the coach too, so lets disregard that team. Blake and McLellan still trail Taylor and Murray, who won a playoff series and lost in Game 7 of round 2 to the eventual champs, who also happened to be one of the most talented rosters (maybe the most talented) in modern NHL history. They lost in Game 7 the next year to the same team. The Kings don't have any playoff series wins and have lost back to back years to a 2 man team with garbage goaltending and defense. If they get past the 2nd round we can say they achieved more than Taylor and Murray.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: crassbonanza
Have to agree with this. We’re also getting real close to danger time with Kopitar and Doughty. They’ve already lost a few steps. They’re better than I thought they’d be but they aren’t getting younger. We’ve had one first round draft pick success since our last cup (Kempe). At what point do we say we need to do some things differently?

Good point, a fact that gets very overlooked is the potential significant decline of both players. Kopitar is the same age as Bobby Ryan, Marc Staal, Jack Johnson and Carey Price. Doughty is the same age as PK Subban, Jake Voracek, Ryan McDonaugh, Jake Muzzin and Jamie Benn. These two guys are really really old for hockey players. I will say though, Kopitar really hasn't shown a ton of cracks, he could be a Bergeron type that just plays at a high level until he's 39. Doughty on the other hand, there certainly were some cracks that showed last season, he is not only older, but he has a ton of mileage on his tires. I guess the one saving grace is the Kings have a player in Clarke who could realistically slide into that role pretty soon. With Kopitar, despite using three picks inside the Top 12, two in the Top 5 looking for his replacement, there really isn't anything close. If Kopitar falls off it would fall on PLD to be the 1C (which may be to much to ask), but its one of the reasons I think they found attractive about trading for him. And it's one of the major reasons I was all-in on getting Eichel when he was available. You need a 1C to win, especially when you have ignored other positions looking to find one.
 
Last edited:
I'm really not liking that a 2nd round appearance is apparently the standard for keeping Todd and Blake around. If the Kings squeak through Rd 1 in 7 games then get blasted by the Oilers or Knights again in Rd 2 then is that actually a success? The Kings are not a young team. They have a 2, maybe 3 year window before the bulk of the roster starts declining, less than that if either Kopi or DD fall off. If a token 2nd round appearance is the best they can do, after spending all those futures and money, with almost every important player in or past their prime then that's pretty damning IMO.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Schrute farms
How in the world do you justify calling Blake and McLellan the "second best"?

Have you only ever seen two?
Besides Lombardi and Sutter, what combination of GM and coach in Kings history is better than Blake and McLellan? That’s not singing their praises. That’s showing how inept this franchise has been for most of its life.
 
Yes, 4 out of 16 teams in a conference actively trying to lose is a lot. And yes GBH, the other 12 teams benefitted to, its basic math, it shouldn't be this hard to understand. That is why despite finishing with 104 points the Kings actually finished closer to the WC than the year before when they had 99. Teams like Seattle also benefitted from those teams sucking and that is why everyones point total went up. That is why it's a bit dishonest to hype up the teams point totals. The 21-22 and 22-23 teams finished exactly the same, a middling playoff team that lost in round 1. One team was just able to go 10-0-2 vs 4 teams not trying to win, and the other didn't have as many gimmes the year before.

Wayne Gretzky was the Kings GM in 1993 when the team had its 3rd best season ever, and he was basically the coach too, so lets disregard that team. Blake and McLellan still trail Taylor and Murray, who won a playoff series and lost in Game 7 of round 2 to the eventual champs, who also happened to be one of the most talented rosters (maybe the most talented) in modern NHL history. They lost in Game 7 the next year to the same team. The Kings don't have any playoff series wins and have lost back to back years to a 2 man team with garbage goaltending and defense. If they get past the 2nd round we can say they achieved more than Taylor and Murray.

21-22 didn't have any gimmes except, SJ, ANA, CHI, and ARI....mmm....ok...sure...

As far as Taylor and Murray, not seeing it...maybe the bar is a bit low
 
21-22 didn't have any gimmes except, SJ, ANA, CHI, and ARI....mmm....ok...sure...

As far as Taylor and Murray, not seeing it...maybe the bar is a bit low

No, there were not as many teams actively trying to lose to get Slafkovsky or Wright.

Also, how are Taylor and Murray, who won a playoff series in year 2, and very nearly made the conference final not above Blake and TMac? I'm not saying they were great, but Blake and TMac have literally no playoff success to speak of.
 
No, there were not as many teams actively trying to lose to get Slafkovsky or Wright.

Also, how are Taylor and Murray, who won a playoff series in year 2, and very nearly made the conference final not above Blake and TMac? I'm not saying they were great, but Blake and TMac have literally no playoff success to speak of.

I'll go back just one tenure: Dave Taylor and Andy Murray are better than Blake and McClellan.

Sure. I’ll give everybody Taylor and Murray. I’ll even give everyone Lombardi and Murray. I said arguably in the first place. My point was not that Blake and McLellan are good but that this franchise has been historically terrible except for a few brief moments in time (1993, 2001, and 2012-2014).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Herby
Sure. I’ll give everybody Taylor and Murray. I’ll even give everyone Lombardi and Murray. I said arguably in the first place. My point was not that Blake and McLellan are good but that this franchise has been historically terrible except for a few brief moments in time (1993, 2001, and 2012-2014).
The point remains that Blake has zero playoff series win despite inheriting a cup-winning core.

I don't know enough about other regimes in the yesteryears, as my concerns for roster management were nonexistent before the Taylor era, so I can't agree with bland on his assertion that nobody had done less with more than Blake, but 6 years so far have been pretty mediocre.
 
I want Luc gone.

I'm kind of indifferent about TMac.

I'd be okay with keeping Blake around.
Let me fix this for you..

Luc should be gone regardless of how this team performs

TMac has done his job and rebuilt the Kings into a playoff team but he’s not taking you all the way

Blake gets one more chance.. if he f***s up his next coach he should be gone
 
  • Like
Reactions: SaltyElkHunter
The point remains that Blake has zero playoff series win despite inheriting a cup-winning core.

I don't know enough about other regimes in the yesteryears, as my concerns for roster management were nonexistent before the Taylor era, so I can't agree with bland on his assertion that nobody had done less with more than Blake, but 6 years so far have been pretty mediocre.

Blake started his regime with the benefits of Lombardi's work - signed, prime Cup core, world class infrastructure with a top notch training facility, a fully fleshed out scouting system and a local minor league team. He then had the benefit of multiple top 10 picks and ample cap space AND an owner willing to spend the maximum.

No other Kings GM has had these at his disposal. Literally all three things you could ask for - prime players locked up, the ability to pick and choose his top prospects and a ton of money to spend on veteran players.

Yet, his success level is equal to that of a team that had no money, no prospects, a place that couldn't attract free agents and a scouting department that consisted of a coffee stained version of Central Scoutings rankings. That's the history of the team from start til a small Gretzky blip until Lombardi. With every advantage he has failed to show any positive results.

This isn't a case of picking thru individual pine needles, take a look at it as a forest and not as a series of nitpicked individual events. The model is rotten.
 
I will speculate that Luc/Blake regime got the gig on the basis that they would do things differently than the "outdated" and stale Lombardi/Sutter regime. They sold to AEG the idea that making minimal adjustments would result in another Cup contending team. That more focus on speed and skill will bring them to the promised land etc. In the end none of that happened, the rebuild was a weird retool and they tore down the infrastructure and identity Lombardi spent years building and replaced it with temporary ad-hoc solutions as a style of management with no real Identity. Of course they can't go back and say they need a team that's tougher and more mentally resilient because a departure from that was the vision they sold to AEG in the first place, as Lombardi would probably double down on that formula. That's my speculation.
 
I know it’s hard to necessarily qualify this statement but the Kings were a better team on paper through Todd’s tenure. Mix with it a weak division and I think the Kings were playoff bound with or without him. There’s instances where the Kings fell off significantly that you can attribute to more so bad coaching than a bad team. Even though you can grant the fact that Blake set up the team with bad defense and goaltending, Todd couldn’t coach that problem. Whenever there’s been a problem with the roster Todd has never been able to mask it. As much as I disliked Sutter, I think he did a really good job instilling a gameplan regardless of the roster he had and making it work.
 
Blake started his regime with the benefits of Lombardi's work - signed, prime Cup core, world class infrastructure with a top notch training facility, a fully fleshed out scouting system and a local minor league team. He then had the benefit of multiple top 10 picks and ample cap space AND an owner willing to spend the maximum.

Wait, what? What about all the crap Lombardi left behind? When Blake took over, the prospect pool was among the worst in the league. Many pubs had them ranked in the high 20's and even #30. What about the high priced underperforming vets that needed to be jettisoned?

This is kind of a weird alternate history, we all knew the team was complete shit and needed to be torn apart when DL was fired. You make it sound like Lombardi left Blake all this good stuff, when his last few years were about as destructive as you can be.

And pretty much every team has world class infrastructure, a top notch training facility, and a fully fleshed out scouting system. He had 3 top 10 picks in 7 years, and none in his first 3 drafts. And a lot of teams spend to the maximum. None of that stuff is special in any way.

I don't really disagree with the lack of success, that's on Blake for sure. But that statement above has to be one of the most revisionist things I've ever seen on here.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kudelski37
Wait, what? What about all the crap Lombardi left behind? When Blake took over, the prospect pool was among the worst in the league. Many pubs had them ranked in the high 20's and even #30. What about the high priced underperforming vets that needed to be jettisoned?

This is kind of a weird alternate history, we all knew the team was complete shit and needed to be torn apart when DL was fired. You make it sound like Lombardi left Blake all this good stuff, when his last few years were about as destructive as you can be.

And pretty much every team has world class infrastructure, a top notch training facility, and a fully fleshed out scouting system. He had 3 top 10 picks in 7 years, and none in his first 3 drafts. And a lot of teams spend to the maximum. None of that stuff is special in any way.

I don't really disagree with the lack of success, that's on Blake for sure. But that statement above has to be one of the most revisionist things I've ever seen on here.
The Kings prospects weren't a top 10 group because they had just spent the last five years winning two cups and going to a WCF and the other two making the playoffs. They had no top prospects because they weren't getting high picks.

It's not revisionist. It's just the truth. Blake inherited a mid/late-20's core with room under the cap, got two top-5 picks, and he's done nothing with it. They're WORSE off than they were when Lombardi left in terms of results. The only thing Blake has done is get a couple of shiny new toys in Free Agency that, while good players, have done nothing to further the team towards winning something. They were bad timing signings and they'll be that no matter how well they play here.
 
The main issue I see currently is that Blake has no clue how to scout and aquire players that Todd can use correctly...

And Todd has no clue or ability to adapt his system to the players Blake acquires.

The two are not a good fit together no matter how much they claim otherwise.
 
Thomas made the biggest statement in camp since Vilardi last year. I watched the video recap of his goals and it was impressive. He was clutch against an opponent who was stacked and on the ice at key moments. Wish I caught it live, but I don’t have NHL network despite paying extortionate amounts to watch streaming on directv and ESPN+.

First goal was a quick shot from the slot that found the top corner. Second one was gobbling up some cheese in front of the net. Both times he was calling for the puck before scoring. The hatty was a crazy backhand from right out from the front of the net. Again, super impressive.

If he’s to earn a spot out of camp, given waivers status, I could see him making the NHL roster over Kaliyev. Arthur didn’t stand out in two games next to very good players. So a guy like Akhil may have a lane here.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Please disable your adblocker on HFBoards.com

It looks like your adblocker is attempting to interfere with the intended operation of this site. Support us by allowing our site to function as we intended. Please disable your adblocker and add us to your allowlist.

Frequently Asked Questions
I'm not using a blocker. Why am I seeing this message?
You're likely seeing this message because an app or extension on your computer is blocking ads. The app or extension may be a "privacy" or "malware" blocker, or a VPN.

I disabled my blocker. Why am I still seeing this message?
It's common to have two or more adblocking extensions running at the same time. See the question above.