GDT: Training Camp 2023

[DAkings20]

HOW THE f*** DO YOU PLAN TO EXTEND A GUY WITH ZERO ACCOMPLISHMENTS? WHAT??????

 

[Herby]

Herby, want to play devil's advocate a bit here if I can...
Wouldn't the idea that you don't maintain signing rights to a player for as long as you used to, suggest that it's better getting a player under contract, into the AHL and learning the team's system as soon as possible?
Not disagreeing with you, more genuinely curious on this philosophy and line of thinking.

I ask because I think of Thomas Hickey having to play 4 seasons in the CHL and can't help but wonder if it hampered his development because he clearly had nothing else to prove in the CHL after his D+1 season. He wasn't ready for the NHL but there was no other option available to him. If you allow players like that into the AHL does it not encourage younger players to develop quicker and create new stars, earlier?

Thanks for the response.

The AHL is not a development league for teenagers and young players who need more time to reach their ceiling in their other leagues, especially ones from the NCAA, and by putting them in that league and making them systems players it limits their upside. The Kings pulled Alex Turcotte from college, rather than sending him back like I'm pretty certain every other team would have done, and it hurt his development and upside, and I think it hurt it alot. Had they believed he was going to play in the NHL it would have been different (see Fantilli and Cooley), but the NCAA is just a much more proven development path for players of his age and caliber. We weren't talking about a dominant player like Fantilli or Cooley ready to step right in, or even a guy like Zegras with a reasonable chance to play most of the year in the NHL, we were talking about a player who struggled mightily offensively and with physicality of Big10 hockey, and that is fine, many freshman do. But most aren't put into the AHL the next season. It was just a horrific decision by the Kings decision makers.

I think the CHL agreement is mostly to line the pockets of CHL teams who don't want to lose their best players to the pros at 19, but I think it does also have some benefit to the players as a whole. Certainly there are some guys who are caught in no-mans land, but for the most part, going back to the CHL is better than being exposed to the type of hockey played in the AHL. That is another thing with Turcotte that made it so criminal, the AHL is a very physical league, filled with many players who know their ticket to the NHL is to play on the edge, and they see hotshot top picks down there, they are going to look to make their mark and leave an impression on their teams. Alex Turcotte was tiny at WI, as a freshman, there was no way they could have thought he was physically ready to play pro hockey, he needed to live in the weight room in Madison (I'm guessing they have world class facilties) and get strong. But getting back to the type of league the AHL is and how teams use high picks. Many teams prefer to not have their prospects exposed to that league at all, especially ones taken very high (sorry @Surf Nutz but the facts don't lie). If you look at Top 5 picks from 2016 to 2021...

30 total players

21 played 0 AHL Games
3 played less than 5 AHL games aka conditioning assignments (Dach, Byram, MacTavish)
1 played 5-15 AHL games (Kotkaniemi)
1 played 15-50 AHL games (Hayton)
2 played 50-80 AHL games (Byfield, Pool-Party)
2 played 80+ AHL games (Turcotte, Juolevi)

It's not an accident we see two of our guys near the top of that group, the Kings have a drastically different philosophy when it comes to AHL usage for high end picks than most teams do.

You can take the SN approach and think the Kings are right and everyone else is wrong, or as SN says "Soon they all will be following Blake's strategy" but for me it's pretty damning, because the vast majority of those 18 players ended up turning out really well, where as the guys with heavy AHL usage usually end up busts or disappointments.

 

[Sol]

I hope the plan was "We need to get to round 2 or we'll both be kissing our asses goodbye."

If Blake extends him without him getting to round 2 I will become even more insufferable than people could possibly imagine. This isn’t even my final form.

 

[Fishhead]

If Blake extends him without him getting to round 2 I will become even more insufferable than people could possibly imagine. This isn’t even my final form.

Dude, I totally just pictured you morphing into some giant pissed-off pokemon with a light saber.

 

[Surf Nutz]

Thanks for the response.

The AHL is not a development league for teenagers and young players who need more time to reach their ceiling in their other leagues, especially ones from the NCAA, and by putting them in that league and making them systems players it limits their upside. The Kings pulled Alex Turcotte from college, rather than sending him back like I'm pretty certain every other team would have done, and it hurt his development and upside, and I think it hurt it alot. Had they believed he was going to play in the NHL it would have been different (see Fantilli and Cooley), but the NCAA is just a much more proven development path for players of his age and caliber. We weren't talking about a dominant player like Fantilli or Cooley ready to step right in, or even a guy like Zegras with a reasonable chance to play most of the year in the NHL, we were talking about a player who struggled mightily offensively and with physicality of Big10 hockey, and that is fine, many freshman do. But most aren't put into the AHL the next season. It was just a horrific decision by the Kings decision makers.

I think the CHL agreement is mostly to line the pockets of CHL teams who don't want to lose their best players to the pros at 19, but I think it does also have some benefit to the players as a whole. Certainly there are some guys who are caught in no-mans land, but for the most part, going back to the CHL is better than being exposed to the type of hockey played in the AHL. That is another thing with Turcotte that made it so criminal, the AHL is a very physical league, filled with many players who know their ticket to the NHL is to play on the edge, and they see hotshot top picks down there, they are going to look to make their mark and leave an impression on their teams. Alex Turcotte was tiny at WI, as a freshman, there was no way they could have thought he was physically ready to play pro hockey, he needed to live in the weight room in Madison (I'm guessing they have world class facilties) and get strong. But getting back to the type of league the AHL is and how teams use high picks. Many teams prefer to not have their prospects exposed to that league at all, especially ones taken very high (sorry @Surf Nutz but the facts don't lie). If you look at Top 5 picks from 2016 to 2021...


21 played 0 AHL Games
3 played less than 5 AHL games aka conditioning assignments (Dach, Byram, MacTavish)
1 played 5-15 AHL games (Kotkaniemi)
1 played 15-50 AHL games (Hayton)
2 played 50-80 AHL games (Byfield, Pool-Party)
2 played 80+ AHL games (Turcotte, Juolevi)

It's not an accident we see two of our guys near the top of that group, the Kings have a drastically different philosophy when it comes to AHL usage for high end picks than most teams do.

You can take the SN approach and think the Kings are right and everyone else is wrong, or as SN says "Soon they all will be following Blake's strategy" but for me it's pretty damning, because the vast majority of those 18 players ended up turning out really well, where as the guys with heavy AHL usage usually end up busts or disappointments.

Let's follow the money on this one, why did multiple Western teams cumulatively spend millions to relocate/ relocate to/ acquire/ start AHL franchises much closer to their NHL hub?

Just as the Kings did quite a few years ago

To have better development in the AHL under their NHL staff or to save a couple hundred bucks on air fare for call ups?

Millions of dollars spent by NHL franchises does not lie.

Crunch stats any way you want and have your opinion.

But to NHL franchises, the AHL is primarily viewed as a developmental league for 80%+ of the teams draft picks.

 

[Herby]

Let's follow the money on this one, why did multiple Western teams cumulatively spend millions to relocate/ relocate to/ acquire/ start AHL franchises much closer to their NHL hub?

Just as the Kings did quite a few years ago

To have better development in the AHL under their NHL staff or to save a couple hundred bucks on air fare for call ups?

Millions of dollars spent by NHL franchises does not lie.

Crunch stats any way you want and have your opinion.

But to NHL franchises, the AHL is primarily viewed as a developmental league for 80%+ of the teams draft picks.

Why have 24 of the recent top 30 players taken with top 5 picks played basically zero AHL games, and the ones who played heavily in the AHL ended up disappointments?

You asked me to show proof that other teams do it differently, well there you go.

Nobody is saying the AHL serves no purpose, just that it’s not a place to send players viewed as blue chippers.

 

[Surf Nutz]

Why have 24 of the recent top 30 players taken with top 5 picks played basically zero AHL games, and the ones who played heavily in the AHL ended up disappointments?

You asked me to show proof that other teams do it differently, well there you go.

Nobody is saying the AHL serves no purpose, just that it’s not a place to send players viewed as blue chippers.

Mostly because most of those teams did not have a chance at the playoffs and wanted to tank for more high picks.

They have more incentive to play players that would be pigeonholed in the AHL in a better franchise.

They also have far less talent blocking the young players in the NHL lineup.



Being forced to sink or swim on an NHL team may be better for individual players development but not one of those teams has WON the cup at the same time.

 

[Sol]

Dude, I totally just pictured you morphing into some giant pissed-off pokemon with a light saber.

I mean everything is on the table if that idiot is extended lol

 

[King'sPawn]

If Blake extends him without him getting to round 2 I will become even more insufferable than people could possibly imagine. This isn’t even my final form.

I may have to unblock people just to watch the fireworks. But then I'd have to take a vow of silence so I wouldn't be tempted to engage. Some would call that a win, too.

 

[ScoreZeGoals]

Blake extending McLellan and the Kings then having another first round exit where they are barely competitive would be so on brand for this franchise

 

[Brownie to Pancakes]

Dude, I totally just pictured you morphing into some giant pissed-off pokemon with a light saber.

 

[Sol]

I may have to unblock people just to watch the fireworks. But then I'd have to take a vow of silence so I wouldn't be tempted to engage. Some would call that a win, too.

Buckle up buddy I will lose my shit lol

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I don’t get why they would rush to extend the modern day version of Tom Webster. Maybe win a playoff series and earn it, and try not to get out coached yet again in the opening round.

 

[ZJames]

I may have to unblock people just to watch the fireworks. But then I'd have to take a vow of silence so I wouldn't be tempted to engage. Some would call that a win, too.

Sometimes it's fun to just be a fly on the wall.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

 

[Kudelski37]

I don’t get why they would rush to extend the modern day version of Tom Webster. Maybe win a playoff series and earn it, and try not to get out coached yet again in the opening round.

Easy there. Tom Webster made to it the second round his first two seasons with LA.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Easy there. Tom Webster made to it the second round his first two seasons with LA.

Both have also demonstrated failure against Edmonton in the playoffs on a number of occasions.

 

[Herby]

Is there any accountability at all from anyone at AEG corporate? Are they asleep at the wheel? Nobody on the coaching staff or the front office should be getting extensions until this team has any kind of success at all. The rewards given out for finishing 3rd place in an 8 team division in which a few of the teams were actively trying to lose is mind boggling.

 

[AbsentMojo]

I mean everything is on the table if that idiot is extended lol

Id say the idiot would be the extender not the extendee.. Koala is actually brilliant for being highest paid coach in the league with his track record.

 

[Fishhead]

Is there any accountability at all from anyone at AEG corporate? Are they asleep at the wheel? Nobody on the coaching staff or the front office should be getting extensions until this team has any kind of success at all. The rewards given out for finishing 3rd place in an 8 team division in which a few of the teams were actively trying to lose is mind boggling.

There isn't much for two reasons.

First, there is zero fan pressure, LA is a huge city with too much to do, so most don't care. I think the Lakers are really the only franchise that feels that here.

Second, the franchise shot up in value and made them a ton of money after the cup wins. Those were largely because they finally just backed off and let the hockey folks do their job. No meddling from guys like Leiweke, or any other suit. I don't think they've ever forgotten that.

It also depends on success. The team hasn't won anything yet, but only a couple of years ago it was year after year of missing the playoffs. So maybe they view it as forward progress. If they do extend, it shouldn't be more than 2 years. This season should be make or break. Gotta win a round or two with this roster.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

 

[Herby]

Both have also demonstrated failure against Edmonton in the playoffs on a number of occasions.

Thanks for the reigniting the childhood PTSD of those series.

 

[Johnny Utah]

I’m in Vegas tonight - let’s see how they play.

 

[Herby]

There isn't much for two reasons.

First, there is zero fan pressure, LA is a huge city with too much to do, so most don't care. I think the Lakers are really the only franchise that feels that here.

Second, the franchise shot up in value and made them a ton of money after the cup wins. Those were largely because they finally just backed off and let the hockey folks do their job. No meddling from guys like Leiweke, or any other suit. I don't think they've ever forgotten that.

It also depends on success. The team hasn't won anything yet, but only a couple of years ago it was year after year of missing the playoffs. So maybe they view it as forward progress. If they do extend, it shouldn't be more than 2 years. This season should be make or break. Gotta win a round or two with this roster.

There was enough for them to fire DL only 3 seasons after they won their 2nd cup. Now I had no issue with DL being fired because June 2014 to April 2017 was the worst this franchise had been mismanaged since I was a fan (and thats saying something). But six seasons of zero playoff series wins, never finishing higher than 3rd in the division while having two $10m players and back to back top 5 picks is pretty terrible too.

These guys all should be entering this season knowing its do or die for all of them, not getting extensions beyond this season.

 

[Sol]

Blake has fully lost the plot if he extends TmAc. We all know it’s a country club for sure but that would be undeniable evidence that even his most fervent supporters can’t dispute.