Training Camp 2023

[tnfrs]

yes we all wonder. Thoughts on Tony D in /Carolina this year?


yep. a very odd take for one to take. way more often

i think its far more important that the flyers are becoming an organization that goes out of its way to clean that kind of stuff up. management is far enough removed from the players they dont see their day to day stuff or police their lives. teams can only control who comes in the locker room they cant control what comes with them, but we've moved players for being pieces of shit in the past and so it doesnt surprise me when they extend other people a second chance

 

[VladDrag]

Frost has a wide open track to be the 2C this year, he's getting better wingers in camp than Cates, he'll get plenty of PT to show he deserves the job. He's 24, time to put up.

Do you really believe Frost is going to get optimal usage and linemates? Last game, he was put on the second PP, while Tuomaala, Foerster, and Brink got PP1 time.

 

[deadhead]

Do you really believe Frost is going to get optimal usage and linemates? Last game, he was put on the second PP, while Tuomaala, Foerster, and Brink got PP1 time.

I don't read anything into the first two exhibition games, until the AHL kids get sent down to prepare for AHL preseason games. Look at the lineup they're taking to the Island! However, two of those players make more sense on PP1 than Frost.

Foerster is more likely to play on PP1 than Frost b/c he's a better PP player - they had a bad PP last year, but Frost was the worst forward to get regular minutes by any metric. I think b/c his game really isn't suited to the PP and he may need time to learn to play better "stationary" - because I don't think he sees the ice that well. When he can use his legs, he can force action and open up passing lanes, but that's harder to do on the PP. Foerster is a better shooter, can play net front and is a good passer.

Brink is probably better suited to the G role than Frost on the PP. Not sure he's ready for the NHL, but when he comes up to stay, I think he's destined to be on PP1. He's elusive in short areas and has great vision and a good shot.

 

[Beef Invictus]

That's an issue?

Barkey is 18, going back to junior, doubt Torts even looked at him twice. He's someone Briere, his scouts and his development people will watch closely, but Torts isn't going to be interested until he's eligible for the AHL and becomes a potential call-up. From a HC"s perspective, what a kid does at 18 is meaningless, the player he becomes at 21 when he's fighting for a NHL is what matters.

The initial roster I think was 57 players, Torts is probably only interested in 30-35 of them right now.

Ignoring possible future players, wow what great coaching.

 

[Beef Invictus]

did you see how many players posted stuff about nate when he retired? it was an unusually large number for a ice whos on ice value youre questioning. i think alot of people outside of hockey underestimate how much on ice value a good teammate brings

nothing about what coots said in that clip i posted is usual off handed stuff either, he spends like a minute talking about cates. talks about him like a teammate hell be playing with for years, not like a prospect trying to earn a spot.

He brought zero value on the ice. I'm sure he was fun outside of games but he dragged the team down badly. Any player who honestly valued him on-ice should be disqualified from future management jobs. It's a brutally bad assessment on their part. Like watching Yandle and thinking he's actually good. Oh, and lots of people went to bat for that slob too. Didn't change how much he sucked.

 

[VladDrag]

I don't read anything into the first two exhibition games, until the AHL kids get sent down to prepare for AHL preseason games. Look at the lineup they're taking to the Island! However, two of those players make more sense on PP1 than Frost.

Foerster is more likely to play on PP1 than Frost b/c he's a better PP player - they had a bad PP last year, but Frost was the worst forward to get regular minutes by any metric. I think b/c his game really isn't suited to the PP and he may need time to learn to play better "stationary" - because I don't think he sees the ice that well. When he can use his legs, he can force action and open up passing lanes, but that's harder to do on the PP. Foerster is a better shooter, can play net front and is a good passer.

Brink is probably better suited to the G role than Frost on the PP. Not sure he's ready for the NHL, but when he comes up to stay, I think he's destined to be on PP1. He's elusive in short areas and has great vision and a good shot.

I disagree with so much of what you say, and I will leave it at that.

 

[EXTRAS]

Laughton at wing this year? To start, anyway...?

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Laughton at wing this year? To start, anyway...?

Considering it's gonna be Couts, Frost and Cates, probably yeah.

 

[deadhead]

I disagree with so much of what you say, and I will leave it at that.

Time will tell. But go check the xGF/60 of all the Flyer PP forwards last year.
Not determinate, but Frost really showed nothing, and the eyeball test agrees.
He played his best hockey with Tippett at ES, forcing action with their speed.
Can't do that often on the PP.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

The comments weren't the usual off-handed support of a teammate.

He brought about Thompson on his own and mentioned how his absence was one of the reasons they had a poor 20-21 season and said they "needed him."

He didn't just value Thompson as a teammate. He valued his on-ice worth. Problem is, he was one of the very worst forwards in the NHL while on the Flyers.

It doesn’t bother me still. This should be pretty far down on the list of things to worry about with this team.
I still love Couturier as a player

 

[Rebels57]

It doesn’t bother me still. This should be pretty far down on the list of things to worry about with this team.
I still love Couturier as a player

I never said I didn't love him as a player.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

I never said I didn't love him as a player.

I know you didn’t. Just felt like saying it.

 

[VladDrag]

Time will tell. But go check the xGF/60 of all the Flyer PP forwards last year.
Not determinate, but Frost really showed nothing, and the eyeball test agrees.
He played his best hockey with Tippett at ES, forcing action with their speed.
Can't do that often on the PP.

Probably the only area I can't disagree with you is Frost's pp stats. I would argue the Flyers didn't use him to his best ability (they put him net front and in the bumper positions - basically taking away his best skill, playmaking), and could have gotten more out of his ability.

Where I disagree is on your player evaluations. You saying that Frost doesn't see the ice well is confounding. Not only is his vision one of his best attributes, he's the best pure playmaker on the team with the best combination of deception, hand-eye coordination, vision, and passing skill. That's always been his scouting report. Saying that he can't play stationary is equally confusing to me because most of his detractors previously said he tried to slow the play down/become stationary too much in his early NHL games. I'm sure if I searched far enough, I could find posts of you saying this exact thing.

I've posted this before, but I'm doing it again. It's a video of him in December of last year, a fair few of the highlights are him on the halfwall on the PP, where he should be playing - not net front or bumper.

 

[deadhead]

Probably the only area I can't disagree with you is Frost's pp stats. I would argue the Flyers didn't use him to his best ability (they put him net front and in the bumper positions - basically taking away his best skill, playmaking), and could have gotten more out of his ability.

Where I disagree is on your player evaluations. You saying that Frost doesn't see the ice well is confounding. Not only is his vision one of his best attributes, he's the best pure playmaker on the team with the best combination of deception, hand-eye coordination, vision, and passing skill. That's always been his scouting report. Saying that he can't play stationary is equally confusing to me because most of his detractors previously said he tried to slow the play down/become stationary too much in his early NHL games. I'm sure if I searched far enough, I could find posts of you saying this exact thing.

I've posted this before, but I'm doing it again. It's a video of him in December of last year, a fair few of the highlights are him on the halfwall on the PP, where he should be playing - not net front or bumper.

Uh, those highlights generally illustrate my point, he's best with space.
We'll see, but I think Brink will show himself a better playmaker on the power play and when the team is set up in the O-zone.

One reason I like Tippett - Frost - Atkinson/TK is that speed will open things up for Frost to make plays in open ice, which I think is his greatest strength. I think Farabee would be better served with Couts, b/c they're more deliberate players.

 

[VladDrag]

Uh, those highlights generally illustrate my point, he's best with space.
We'll see, but I think Brink will show himself a better playmaker on the power play and when the team is set up in the O-zone.

One reason I like Tippett - Frost - Atkinson/TK is that speed will open things up for Frost to make plays in open ice, which I think is his greatest strength. I think Farabee would be better served with Couts, b/c they're more deliberate players.

Do you think there is more or less space on the power play?

 

[deadhead]

Do you think there is more or less space on the power play?

Both. There is more space for a stationary player, but the PK defense is set and in position to block shots and passes inside. And if the PK has fast forwards they'll hound puck handlers.

Whereas when Frost and Tippett are moving 5x5, D-men are back tracking and leaving open passing lanes and room to maneuver, while most forwards can't keep up.

So in open ice, speed has more value, on the PP, vision and short area agility. Which is why G was so good on the PP, great vision, agility and passing ability. One reason I don't think Sanheim is suited to the PP is his long legs limit his short area agility near the blue line.

I think Brink may turn out to be a 3rd line forward b/c of some defensive limitations if he can't improve his skating further, which will require sheltering him at times, but PP1.

 

[VladDrag]

Both. There is more space for a stationary player, but the PK defense is set and in position to block shots and passes inside. And if the PK has fast forwards they'll hound puck handlers.

Whereas when Frost and Tippett are moving 5x5, D-men are back tracking and leaving open passing lanes and room to maneuver, while most forwards can't keep up.

So in open ice, speed has more value, on the PP, vision and short area agility. Which is why G was so good on the PP, great vision, agility and passing ability. One reason I don't think Sanheim is suited to the PP is his long legs limit his short area agility near the blue line.

I think Brink may turn out to be a 3rd line forward b/c of some defensive limitations if he can't improve his skating further, which will require sheltering him at times, but PP1.

Both is not the right answer. There is more space on the power play - that is the correct answer here. It’s not as complicated as you’re making it.

 

[Curufinwe]

Where I disagree is on your player evaluations. You saying that Frost doesn't see the ice well is confounding.

Literally no one is worse at evaluating players than deadhead.

 

[deadhead]

Both is not the right answer. There is more space on the power play - that is the correct answer here. It’s not as complicated as you’re making it.

Both is the right answer. There is more spacing on the PP, but less room to maneuver b/c the defense is set. Which is why you see players doing a lot of short area movements, trying to find a gap, and quickly passing around the box hoping to catch a defender out of position.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Both is the right answer. There is more spacing on the PP, but less room to maneuver b/c the defense is set. Which is why you see players doing a lot of short area movements, trying to find a gap, and quickly passing around the box hoping to catch a defender out of position.

No. There is more space on the PP. You cannot have it both ways so you can slam Frost no matter what; a thing you only want to do because Tortorella does it.

 

[Magua]

I think the Flyers league worst PP is designed around giving themselves the least space possible, so he might have a point there.

I actually can't imagine debating there's less space on the PP than at 5v5. What's worse than jumping the shark?

 

[deadhead]

Flyers had trouble scoring, but out shot the Isles on the road.
Not surprising when Isles play Barzal and Horvat, Flyers Cates and Laughton, on their first lines!
But with a day of rest, fresh legs alllowed them to contest, but lack of skill was obvious

Laczynski played very well, he's healthy and skating much better than last season.
Furry started strong, then faded.
Ginning showed his limited mobility, getting beat a couple times.
Belpedio is limited but a smart veteran, could fill in if needed.

The player who surprised me was Tuomaala, while he doesn't show top 6 skills, he's fast, physical and may have a future as a top bottom six forward who can make things happen on the forecheck and has a shot to take advantage of turnovers he creates. Lot of energy and played physical.

Ersson looked solid, he's a NHL goalie. Sandstrom did nothing bad, the one goal was a double deflection and probably a high stick.

 

[renberg]

This team may well be the worst one in the history of the Flyers. Arguing about who is better than who is debating who is the tallest midget in the circus. There might be five legitimate NHLers on this club the rest is a clown show.

 

[tnfrs]

Flyers had trouble scoring, but out shot the Isles on the road.
Not surprising when Isles play Barzal and Horvat, Flyers Cates and Laughton, on their first lines!
But with a day of rest, fresh legs alllowed them to contest, but lack of skill was obvious

Laczynski played very well, he's healthy and skating much better than last season.
Furry started strong, then faded.
Ginning showed his limited mobility, getting beat a couple times.
Belpedio is limited but a smart veteran, could fill in if needed.

The player who surprised me was Tuomaala, while he doesn't show top 6 skills, he's fast, physical and may have a future as a top bottom six forward who can make things happen on the forecheck and has a shot to take advantage of turnovers he creates. Lot of energy and played physical.

Ersson looked solid, he's a NHL goalie. Sandstrom did nothing bad, the one goal was a double deflection and probably a high stick.

ginning also has no offensive instincts, he just throws it up the wall or dumps it, basically just gives the puck away unless he can send it to his partner

 

[Beef Invictus]

Tuomaala has no NHL future.