GDT: Training Camp 2022

[CantHaveTkachev]

Weegar is a lot like Ethan Bear. Has great fancy stats because he doesn’t make a ton of errors, but the ones he does are usually catastrophically bad. That’s why there’s the divide in stat watchers and eye testers.

Nurse provides a ton more individually hence the price tag.

it's also curious as to why Bill Zito, an analytics guru himself, was willing to part with an analytics darling like Weegar

 

[ManofSteel55]

it's also curious as to why Bill Zito, an analytics guru himself, was willing to part with an analytics darling like Weegar

This. There was a lot of talk about Weegar being this amazing player in Florida, but they sure weren't afraid to let him go, were they? I know they got a high value player, but I think they realized that they were trading both pieces in that deal at their absolute highest value. I expect both to regress on Calgary. Huberdeau will still be good, but I'm interested to see how Weegar fits on Calgary's blueline where the only real consistent pieces are Tanev and Hanafin.

 

[TheNumber4]

it's also curious as to why Bill Zito, an analytics guru himself, was willing to part with an analytics darling like Weegar

Analytics says Weegar regress in years 3-8 is why. Zitos moves were based on age-performance curves.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Weegar at 6.5 or Nurse at 9.25?

Nurse at 9.25 any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Nurse gets far too much criticism, and even if he is overpaid, it isn't that much and he's still shown that he can play well as a #1 for us. Weegar hasn't ever been a #1, and there are some concerns with his play for me. It could end up being a steal for Calgary, but I kind of expect this to end up as a "how did he get that contract" discussion at some point.

Weegar is basically another Hanafin for Calgary. Good enough player, underrated in many cases, but not the star that they want him to be.

 

[CycloneSweep]

I don't know.

Nurse is a better goal scorer. He's more than a year younger. He's 6.4 vs 6 feet. Nurse is way harder to play against and plays more minutes than Weegar.

Weegars last two years were his best on a stacked Florida team. 80 pts in 134 games. Nurse had 71 pts in 127.

2.75 AAV is significant enough for sure but ask this question in a year or two.

It would probably still be the same. Weegar is paid what he should be, Nurse is a few mill over and for example, that overpay is preventing us from either upgrading defense or even running a full roster

Nurse at 9.25 any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Nurse gets far too much criticism, and even if he is overpaid, it isn't that much and he's still shown that he can play well as a #1 for us. Weegar hasn't ever been a #1, and there are some concerns with his play for me. It could end up being a steal for Calgary, but I kind of expect this to end up as a "how did he get that contract" discussion at some point.

Nurse is already in the “how did he get that contract” stage of discussions. If we get Nurse of last year this contract is already horrid.

 

[McBooya42]

Enough bitching about Nurse vs. Weegar contracts. Where's the dang game day thread!!??

 

[ManofSteel55]

It would probably still be the same. Weegar is paid what he should be, Nurse is a few mill over and for example, that overpay is preventing us from either upgrading defense or even running a full roster


Nurse is already in the “how did he get that contract” stage of discussions. If we get Nurse of last year this contract is already horrid.

You can say that about any contract on the team. I don't think Nurse is even our most overpaid guy, so its always interesting to see this point come out when there are others we should be more critical of.

Nurse is only in the "how did he get that contract" stage of discussions because people are morons. If you ask most people who hate Nurse, the reasons they give are easy to disprove. That's especially the case with casual fans. He's 1 - 1.5M overpaid, and we know why he got that - because he took bridges while management was trying to figure out if he was going to improve enough to surpass Klefbom, or if he was going to settle in as a 2nd pair guy. They did this all the way up to UFA status for him, and if they didn't extend him, he would have tested free agency in the most recent off season. So he left money on the table for the team already, there was no reason for him to yet again. Especially when he was a top 10 defenseman 2 years ago. Hell, even last year, when he put up fewer points, people get all over him, but he still fulfills the most important part of a #1 defenseman. He eats a ton of minutes and comes out ahead against top competition. He puts up top pair even strength point production. Would probably top 45 points if he got more powerplay time. Oiler fans need to stop searching for a scapegoat,

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

It would probably still be the same. Weegar is paid what he should be, Nurse is a few mill over and for example, that overpay is preventing us from either upgrading defense or even running a full roster


Nurse is already in the “how did he get that contract” stage of discussions. If we get Nurse of last year this contract is already horrid.

Nurse is overpaid but he's not what's preventing us from upgrading our roster. It's the 4.5 million going to bottom pair dman Tyson Barrie, the 2.75 million going to 4th line winger Warren Foegele, and the bloody 4.2 million in dead cap, along with poor choices in past seasons such as the Zack Kassian contract and taking on the Duncan Keith cap dump while giving up assets. Hyman and RNH contracts are at high risk of turning into millstones by the end of their contracts too. Nurse is overpaid by what, like 20% at best? That 1.5-2 million dollar upgrade isn't the end of the world considering his role. Now The bottom pair dman/4th line winger getting overpaid that much, now that's a problem.

 

[KlimasLoveChild]

I think Nurse signed the long term deal because he knows Leon and McD are staying. All 3 love to play together

That's the rumor and I really hope that is what goes down. If that happens then maybe Nurse can rest a bit easier unless the others follow his lead and wring every dollar they can out of the Oilers organization. It makes you wonder if there will be much left to go around at that point. Hopefully by that time they already have a Cup in their back pocket.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

Re; Leon


Personal day? He probably got the booster and zombie queen lizzies alien DNA is slowly attacking his bloodstream.

 

[CycloneSweep]

You can say that about any contract on the team. I don't think Nurse is even our most overpaid guy, so its always interesting to see this point come out when there are others we should be more critical of.

Nurse is only in the "how did he get that contract" stage of discussions because people are morons. If you ask most people who hate Nurse, the reasons they give are easy to disprove. That's especially the case with casual fans. He's 1 - 1.5M overpaid, and we know why he got that - because he took bridges while management was trying to figure out if he was going to improve enough to surpass Klefbom, or if he was going to settle in as a 2nd pair guy. They did this all the way up to UFA status for him, and if they didn't extend him, he would have tested free agency in the most recent off season. So he left money on the table for the team already, there was no reason for him to yet again. Especially when he was a top 10 defenseman 2 years ago. Hell, even last year, when he put up fewer points, people get all over him, but he still fulfills the most important part of a #1 defenseman. He eats a ton of minutes and comes out ahead against top competition. He puts up top pair even strength point production. Would probably top 45 points if he got more powerplay time. Oiler fans need to stop searching for a scapegoat,

He had 1 season in a really weird year where he was good offensively.
Nurse is arguably a low end #1. I have 15-20 defenders ahead of him pretty easily. It is what it is, lets just hope he can improve from what we saw last year.
At the end of the day Nurse is a high event defender who benefits from high end linemates but allows a crap ton of chances. He is an extremely high event defender who is an athletics beast. He can play tons of minutes but doesn't really mean he should be. He is overpaid cause our dcore isn't good and he carries it, but on a good dcore he is probably a #3 guy.
He isn't the issues with our dcore but if he was as good as his contract suggest, it wouldn't be as bad.

 

[jeffff]

Nurse is already in the “how did he get that contract” stage of discussions. If we get Nurse of last year this contract is already horrid.

C'mon man, how can you say that, that statement is ridiculous. He hasn't played one second of his 8 year contract.

 

[Arpeggio]

He had 1 season in a really weird year where he was good offensively.
Nurse is arguably a low end #1. I have 15-20 defenders ahead of him pretty easily. It is what it is, lets just hope he can improve from what we saw last year.
At the end of the day Nurse is a high event defender who benefits from high end linemates but allows a crap ton of chances. He is an extremely high event defender who is an athletics beast. He can play tons of minutes but doesn't really mean he should be. He is overpaid cause our dcore isn't good and he carries it, but on a good dcore he is probably a #3 guy.
He isn't the issues with our dcore but if he was as good as his contract suggest, it wouldn't be as bad.

Nurse is a #3 on maybe 3-4 teams in the entire league. You can't say he's a top 20 defenceman and then say he's a #3 on a good team.

 

[McShogun99]

I take Nurse all day over Weager. Weager is probably under paid by 750k but he’s not a #1, Nurse is overpaid by 1 million but despite what some say on here he’s a legitimate #1.

If you offered Calgary Nurse for Weager they would instantly clear some cap to make that trade happen. There’s not many D in the league like Nurse.

 

[Spawn]

So is this correct?

The Oilers still need to cut three forwards of the following options (at least two from the guys in bold):
Foegele
Ryan
Shore
Hamblin
Malone
Benson

And two of:
Broberg
Niemelianen
Demers
Murray

Am I missing anyone?

 

[CycloneSweep]

C'mon man, how can you say that, that statement is ridiculous. He hasn't played one second of his 8 year contract.

I can say that because I have seen tons of people in the hockey community asking that question the moment it was signed.

 

[ehhteen]

Was it Weegar who went to go for a hit on in like the final seconds of a game on Kucherov? I think it was in the playoffs and it left Ross Colton I believe, all alone to win the game in regulation. Granted it’s one play, but I remember a lot of Panthers fans going irate about it.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Nurse is a #3 on maybe 3-4 teams in the entire league. You can't say he's a top 20 defenceman and then say he's a #3 on a good team

Fair, there is 20 guys I said who are clearly above him. You can make argument for another 10-20 being better than him too. So maybe its better to say Nurse is a #2 defender being paid like the elite of the elite.

 

[LTIR]

Hey guys, curious question I've always been intrigued by Jesse P. He looked so dominant around his draft year. Admittedly my question has fantasy implications. He's only 24. Think he still has a shot to lock down top line or become what we all projected to be?? Would appreciate insights.

I wouldn't bank on Puljujarvi in a keepers league. He won't get top unit PP and seems to lack confidence around the net.

I'm sure you will find better players

 

[CycloneSweep]

I take Nurse all day over Weager. Weager is probably under paid by 750k but he’s not a #1, Nurse is overpaid by 1 million but despite what some say on here he’s a legitimate #1.

If you offered Calgary Nurse for Weager they would instantly clear some cap to make that trade happen. There’s not many D in the league like Nurse.

There is not many d as bad defensively as Nurse that gets gravy minutes with the best players in the world to help make up for it. Nurse is on for often the most chances for and the most chances against. His defensive game is below average at best.

 

[Macblender]

How is Spector now complaining that we had to waive Janmark because we have Puljujarvi. Like we are not at complaining about 4th liners?

 

[McShogun99]

There is not many d as bad defensively as Nurse that gets gravy minutes with the best players in the world to help make up for it. Nurse is on for often the most chances for and the most chances against. His defensive game is below average at best.

When you play almost 30 minutes a game with various forwards and a weak bottom six and partners like Barrie and Bear you’re bound to be on the ice for a decent amount of goals against.

 

[CycloneSweep]

When you play almost 30 minutes a game with various forwards and a weak bottom six and partners like Barrie and Bear you’re bound to be on the ice for a decent amount of goals against.

His chances against and high danger chances against rate wise are absolutely stunningly bad no matter his partner. It is what it is. He is an overrated and overpaid defender. He is still the best guy we have overall

 

[McDNicks17]

Analytics God Weegar: 2.46 xGA/60

Worst Defensive Defenseman in the League Nurse: 2.53 xGA/60



edit: To really put that into context, that means Weegar is on the ice for 1 full expected goal against less every 857 minutes of 5v5. That's about 50 games of playing 18 minutes of 5v5 per night.

 

[Fourier]

Leon's modeling is starting to get in the way of practice.

A house in my neighborhood was getting heating work done today. The service person was a doppelganger for Leon. Maybe he needs a side hustle to make up for his modest salary.