GDT: Training Camp 2022

[Aerchon]

I agree that Niemelainan has had the best camp of the rookie defensemen. And that he likely slots best as a bottom pair d on a largely finesse based NHL d-corp. Love the player! I'd parse out Murray and Demers in the competition. Murray's a sure thing 7th defender and insurance package. Demers maybe farms out as a quality pro's pro who can support and mentor the Bakersfield kids (if he is offered a two way deal and wants to stay in the organization).

We know Broberg will be on the NHL roster to maximize Oilers cap flexibility. The coach has a long read on Broberg so projecting that he might only get a "one and done" scenario defies reality of how the coach and management view this player.

A summary of Broberg's first NHL recall, early in his North American pro time, and as age 20 defender, shows a pretty solid debut notable is four games in a huge away game at rival Vegas. @Fourier debunked some of the +/- criticism showing highlights of his December 7th -2 game against the Wild have no bearing on the goals against.

Broberg is 3 years younger than Niemelainan, 2 years younger than Samaroukov, even 1 year younger than Kesselring. I anticipate Niemelainan and Broberg to play a lot of NHL games this year with waiver protection and the different elements and differing ceilings they offer this organization. Unfortunately I fear Samaroukov may get snagged in waivers.

Onboarding as an NHL defenseman is damn hard. Trying to do it on a team priming for its winning window makes it even harder. Broberg needs to continue to get physically stronger, sharpen his decision making speed (which comes through experience - Bouchard is a good example of that growth).

This team finally has quality young defensemen ready to contribute.


[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Home/Away[/TD]
[TD]Date[/TD]
[TD]Game[/TD]
[TD]Points[/TD]
[TD]Ice Time[/TD]
[TD]+/-[/TD]
[TD]Goalie[/TD]
[TD]Team[/TD]
[TD]O-zone starts[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]H[/TD]
[TD]Nov 20[/TD]
[TD]Oilers 5 Hawks 2[/TD]
[TD]1 A[/TD]
[TD]14:24[/TD]
[TD]+1[/TD]
[TD]Skinner[/TD]
[TD]Nurse out[/TD]
[TD]44.4% OZ[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]R[/TD]
[TD]Nov 23[/TD]
[TD]Dallas 4
Oilers 1[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]18:59[/TD]
[TD]-2[/TD]
[TD]Skinner[/TD]
[TD]Nurse out, Keith 10 min[/TD]
[TD]15.4% OZ[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]R[/TD]
[TD]Nov 24[/TD]
[TD]Oilers 5
Arizona 3[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]18:59[/TD]
[TD]-2[/TD]
[TD]Skinner[/TD]
[TD]Nurse, Keith out[/TD]
[TD]40% OZ[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]R[/TD]
[TD]Nov 27[/TD]
[TD]Oilers 3 Vegas 2[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]23:34[/TD]
[TD]-1[/TD]
[TD]Koskinen[/TD]
[TD]Nurse, Keith out[/TD]
[TD]42.9% OZ[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]H[/TD]
[TD]Dec 1[/TD]
[TD]Oilers 5 Pens 2[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]13:07[/TD]
[TD]-1[/TD]
[TD]Koskinen[/TD]
[TD]Nurse, Keith out[/TD]
[TD]60% OZ[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]R[/TD]
[TD]Dec 3[/TD]
[TD]Kraken 4 Oilers 3[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]12:20[/TD]
[TD]-1[/TD]
[TD]Skinner[/TD]
[TD]Nurse, Keith out[/TD]
[TD]100% OZ[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]H[/TD]
[TD]Dec 5[/TD]
[TD]Kings 5 Oilers 1[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]10:25[/TD]
[TD]-1[/TD]
[TD]Koskinen[/TD]
[TD]Nurse back, Keith out[/TD]
[TD]14.3% OZ[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]H[/TD]
[TD]Dec 7[/TD]
[TD]Wild 4 Oilers 1[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]10:18[/TD]
[TD]-2[/TD]
[TD]Koskinen[/TD]
[TD]Nurse, Keith return[/TD]
[TD]75% OZ[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Your ranking made me curious so I decided to run the scoring chance numbers for each defenceman this pre-season. Hard to fully judge with the variance in rosters but...

Broberg 3 games 10-9
Demers 3 games 10-25
Murray 3 games 13-16
Niemelainen 4 games 12-32
Samorukov 4 games 17-13

Demers, Niemelainen, Murray and Samo were in that Calgary game where they were dominated.

My opinion is Demers is not even close to NHL quality anymore and Niems probably isn't ready either but quality of roster maybe played into both. Samo surprisingly looks quality from this surviving that Calgary game quite well. Broberg hard to say with the easier teams but solid enough. Murray we know is probably a solid bottom pair or #7.

@Behind Enemy Lines I am hoping Samourkovs solid yet unspectacular play continues and we can have him slip through waivers unclaimed. I find it hard to imagine anyone is really keyed in on him with his performance to date. I like what I see but it doesn't scream NHL ready by any means either. Really hard to imagine someone penciling him into their top 6 but I suppose a team high on him maybe takes him for the depth/potential for growth as a #7/8 guy. A full year in the AHL for him with big minutes and that may well be his time to shine. Then he comes back next year and knocks the doors off.

@The Safe Play This exactly why context is so important. As you say the line-ups play into this heavily. The best scoring forwards on the ice for the Oilers while Niem played was Pulj, Yama, and Foegele... well Holloway of course but he isnt exactly proven anything at the NHL level. Niemelianen hasn't gotten to play with anyone who makes more than 3.1mill per season and even those few and far between while going against almost full NHL rosters...

His usage has not been big minutes. He is waiver exempt and you can tell the Oilers are not feeling the pressure to view him as much as even Samourkov for example.

Niemelainen under those circumstance has played very well and the Oilers have won 2 of those games where they really shouldn't have. I think he has been pushing the play and getting into so many games overall because he is playing so well.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Explains the usage in the 3rd last game

 

[SupremeTeam16]

Would still be a great day to do this. Also hilarious the way Virtanen was cropped out of Kane's fishing photos

Virtanen is getting a league minimum deal, the organization lacks depth on the right side and doesn’t have much in the way of right shot forwards.

He might start in Bako but they’ll keep in as a dirt cheap project.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

@Behind Enemy Lines I am hoping Samourkovs solid yet unspectacular play continues and we can have him slip through waivers unclaimed. I find it hard to imagine anyone is really keyed in on him with his performance to date. I like what I see but it doesn't scream NHL ready by any means either. Really hard to imagine someone penciling him into their top 6 but I suppose a team high on him maybe takes him for the depth/potential for growth as a #7/8 guy. A full year in the AHL for him with big minutes and that may well be his time to shine. Then he comes back next year and knocks the doors off.

@The Safe Play This exactly why context is so important. As you say the line-ups play into this heavily. The best scoring forwards on the ice for the Oilers while Niem played was Pulj, Yama, and Foegele... well Holloway of course but he isnt exactly proven anything at the NHL level. Niemelianen hasn't gotten to play with anyone who makes more than 3.1mill per season and even those few and far between while going against almost full NHL rosters...

His usage has not been big minutes. He is waiver exempt and you can tell the Oilers are not feeling the pressure to view him as much as even Samourkov for example.

Niemelainen under those circumstance has played very well and the Oilers have won 2 of those games where they really shouldn't have. I think he has been pushing the play and getting into so many games overall because he is playing so well.

I agree. I really like Samaroukov and highly respect the time he's put in this summer to stay in Edmonton and focus on this critical year. Had some really unfortunate injuries. Hope they are able to hold onto him and continue to establish himself within the organization. He's still in the fight showing pretty steady, quiet play.

EDIT: Respect that you're a strong advocate for him!

 

[Aerchon]

I agree. I really like Samaroukov and highly respect the time he's put in this summer to stay in Edmonton and focus on this critical year. Had some really unfortunate injuries. Hope they are able to hold onto him and continue to establish himself within the organization. He's still in the fight showing pretty steady, quiet play.

EDIT: Respect that you're a strong advocate for him!

His NHL debute was a thing of nightmares and he has had injury problems. But with his play so far this year I still see some good NHL potential. He has time to get back on track, he just turned 23 which is still young for a defender in the NHL.

It really gets overlooked on this team especially, but his skating has looked very good to my eye. I am surprised he is coming into camp so light. I think its improved his skating but I got to say I thought Samourukov would be a heavy 2 way defender due to being a rather great hit machine in junior.

He needs another year in the AHL. I hope this next coaching staff in the AHL can work with him to improve like they have many others over the years. I have recently become a big Niemelianen fan over the last year but I really thought Sammy would be the one I was looking forward to for that kind of role.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Virtanen is getting a league minimum deal, the organization lacks depth on the right side and doesn’t have much in the way of right shot forwards.

He might start in Bako but they’ll keep in as a dirt cheap project.

That's an amazingly stupid idea, he's be useless all camp and his vastly outplayed by the guys in the organization.

He's just a problem and they should just release him already.

 

[Aerchon]

That's an amazingly stupid idea, he's be useless all camp and his vastly outplayed by the guys in the organization.

He's just a problem and they should just release him already.

I forget how the cap works with AHL deal versus NHL deal versus 2 way deal.

But if Virt and Demers sign league minimum deals and are fine to toil away in the minors until injury or opportunity knocks its absolutely fabulous for this teams depth. Demers far more than Virt. Demers in that situation would almost certainly get games on the big club. Virt would likely stay in the minors barring significant improvement and/or significant injuries to our line up.

I could care less about Virt one way or another but its very safe to say having him in the minors would be great for organizational depth.

 

[OilynutEsquire]

That's an amazingly stupid idea, he's be useless all camp and his vastly outplayed by the guys in the organization.

He's just a problem and they should just release him already.

I think you are evaluating him under a biased point of view. Jake hasn't been perfect but he has had good moments too. It would actually be pretty smart of the organization to keep him around on the AHL team. Give him more time to get his game back. He could be a valuable depth piece later in the season.

 

[Donner]

I think you are evaluating him under a biased point of view. Jake hasn't been perfect but he has had good moments too. It would actually be pretty smart of the organization to keep him around on the AHL team. Give him more time to get his game back. He could be a valuable depth piece later in the season.

Meh. I do think its kind of weird to keep him around. He had one ok season in the NHL, and the other yearsm including the AHL and KHL have been below average.

Its not like hes some sort of reclamation project and they are trying to get him back to this former great player. They are digging up a buried turd, with the very small chance of it turning into gold. The problem being this turd has some baggage and not a very well regarded teammate

The problem is that the Oilers did well with the Kane situation and now trying to replicate it. The big difference being Kane was always good in the NHL, even in his troubled years.

Id rather give a guy like Benson/Hamblin etc etc a chance. Its not like JV is better

 

[Aerchon]

Meh. I do think its kind of weird to keep him around. He had one ok season in the NHL, and the other yearsm including the AHL and KHL have been below average.

Its not like hes some sort of reclamation project and they are trying to get him back to this former great player. They are digging up a buried turd, with the very small chance of it turning into gold. The problem being this turd has some baggage and not a very well regarded teammate

The problem is that the Oilers did well with the Kane situation and now trying to replicate it. The big difference being Kane was always good in the NHL, even in his troubled years.

Id rather give a guy like Benson/Hamblin etc etc a chance. Its not like JV is better

I prefer Benson and Hamblin to Virt right now no question. However there are reasons to keep Jake around in the minors, 55 reasons on one side, and 6'1"/226 on the other. I would be surprised if both Benson and Hamblin could be combined into a player that could impact the NHL game as much as Virt already has.

Is Virt playing well no, is he a bother to have around yes, but you do so just in case the player that can score 3 consecutive 10+ goal seasons rounds back into form.

He isn't a Kane level player, but he is a McLeod levelish player... when he was an actual NHL player.

 

[OilynutEsquire]

Meh. I do think its kind of weird to keep him around. He had one ok season in the NHL, and the other yearsm including the AHL and KHL have been below average.

Its not like hes some sort of reclamation project and they are trying to get him back to this former great player. They are digging up a buried turd, with the very small chance of it turning into gold. The problem being this turd has some baggage and not a very well regarded teammate

The problem is that the Oilers did well with the Kane situation and now trying to replicate it. The big difference being Kane was always good in the NHL, even in his troubled years.

Id rather give a guy like Benson/Hamblin etc etc a chance. Its not like JV is better

Benson LW, Hamblin C/LW, Virtanen RW. Jake adds to our weak rw depth. Adding Jake wont hurt Benson or Hamblins chances in the NHL. Borgault wont be playing in the NHL on the 4th line so it doesnt hurt his chances either.

 

[The Safe Play]

@Behind Enemy Lines I am hoping Samourkovs solid yet unspectacular play continues and we can have him slip through waivers unclaimed. I find it hard to imagine anyone is really keyed in on him with his performance to date. I like what I see but it doesn't scream NHL ready by any means either. Really hard to imagine someone penciling him into their top 6 but I suppose a team high on him maybe takes him for the depth/potential for growth as a #7/8 guy. A full year in the AHL for him with big minutes and that may well be his time to shine. Then he comes back next year and knocks the doors off.

@The Safe Play This exactly why context is so important. As you say the line-ups play into this heavily. The best scoring forwards on the ice for the Oilers while Niem played was Pulj, Yama, and Foegele... well Holloway of course but he isnt exactly proven anything at the NHL level. Niemelianen hasn't gotten to play with anyone who makes more than 3.1mill per season and even those few and far between while going against almost full NHL rosters...

His usage has not been big minutes. He is waiver exempt and you can tell the Oilers are not feeling the pressure to view him as much as even Samourkov for example.

Niemelainen under those circumstance has played very well and the Oilers have won 2 of those games where they really shouldn't have. I think he has been pushing the play and getting into so many games overall because he is playing so well.

I think the amount of scoring chances given up is pretty alarming regardless of the teams he's played with. Samo has played in basically all the same games and has a positive differential.

For context the Oilers have been out chanced in three games.

-4 against Jets. Niems Samo, Demers, Murray played.
-17 Calgary. Niems, Samo, Demers, Murray played.
-3 Jets again. Niems, Samo, Demers, Broberg played.

For me, Niems and Demers are the ones bleeding chances where as Samo and Murray are staying above water on bad teams. Niemelainen is at 8 scoring chances against a game which is pretty ugly.

 

[Donner]

I prefer Benson and Hamblin to Virt right now no question. However there are reasons to keep Jake around in the minors, 55 reasons on one side, and 6'1"/226 on the other. I would be surprised if both Benson and Hamblin could be combined into a player that could impact the NHL game as much as Virt already has.

Is Virt playing well no, is he a bother to have around yes, but you do so just in case the player that can score 3 consecutive 10+ goal seasons rounds back into form.

He isn't a Kane level player, but he is a McLeod levelish player... when he was an actual NHL player.

That can be debated. Sure he scores about as many points as McLeod. But McLeod biggest asset is his defensive ability. JV is not particularly good defensively from what I have seen

I just dont want to be chasing this 0.52 PPG year eh had 3 years ago, which seems to be the outlier. And in the mean time make our roster worse from it

Most guys on a PTO fighting for their NHL lives amaze in pre season (Perlini/Rattie), JV has been invsible. If hes this average in preseason, when its the easiest to look good, imagine what hell look like when the skill kicks up 10 notches.

I dont see him as an NHLer and as an AHLer hes probably not a dominant AHLer like a Benson is. Even in the KHL (a similar league to the AHL) he was just average

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Virtanen is getting a league minimum deal, the organization lacks depth on the right side and doesn’t have much in the way of right shot forwards.

He might start in Bako but they’ll keep in as a dirt cheap project.

Ya, share similar thoughts for a while. He hasn't hit it out of the park with training camp PTO. But Holland and Woodcroft might view Virtanen as an in-expensive, worthwhile project with raw components that might need more runway in Bakersfield to shake off the rust of two turbulent years. Layout clear expectations, check in after 20 AHL games and gage progress (or not).

Adding a prospective end of roster big right shooting winger to the organizational depth is a reasonable gamble of two-way contract. I'm not sure where Bako's depth is at but might have some ice time available short-term with Lavoire and Savoie both injured (not sure their return status). But moreso continue to see if there's a cheap bottom six guy who could show enough for later this NHL season. Of course, Woodcroft and Holland might also just cut ties entirely. Such is the no cost beauty of PTO fodder.

To be clear, you don't take development ice-time away from guys like Lavoire and Savoie. Virtanen gets a look at middle line depth in the A but short-term maybe he offers some cover if the kids injury recovery time is in question.

 

[Brewsky]

Anyone know who's quarterbacking the PP?

Is it still Barrie or has Bouchard received any reps?

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

I think you are evaluating him under a biased point of view. Jake hasn't been perfect but he has had good moments too. It would actually be pretty smart of the organization to keep him around on the AHL team. Give him more time to get his game back. He could be a valuable depth piece later in the season.

Virtanen has been useless, disinterested and inconsequential. Philp deserves to still be here more the Virtanen, let alone a contract

Also looks like Hamblin is getting a really good look tonight, as he looks to be 2LW

 

[jukon]

I don't mind if JV and Demers are signed to league minimum one year deals. If they are ok to ride the bus and be positive role models in Bako, that's fine with me.

The only real downside is if they take time, attention and opportunity away from our prospects, which I don't see to be an issue. We are at 44/50 contracts.

On the flipside, maybe they help our prospects develop faster. If we get a bunch of injuries, they can potentially slot in easier than kids making their NHL debuts. If they get claimed off waivers, good for them.

From the Oilers perspective, it's a pretty low-risk option which could potentially save us a 3rd or 4th round pick looking for playoff depth.

 

[McDrai]

A future 4th line of Benson/McLeod/Virtanen would be pretty darn good in my opinion.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

I prefer Benson and Hamblin to Virt right now no question. However there are reasons to keep Jake around in the minors, 55 reasons on one side, and 6'1"/226 on the other. I would be surprised if both Benson and Hamblin could be combined into a player that could impact the NHL game as much as Virt already has.

Is Virt playing well no, is he a bother to have around yes, but you do so just in case the player that can score 3 consecutive 10+ goal seasons rounds back into form.

He isn't a Kane level player, but he is a McLeod levelish player... when he was an actual NHL player.

Look past what he could be, and see what he is. Sure, he does possess soild skills and great physical tools, but he has the hockey IQ of a rock and questionable at best motivation/motor.


The guy's on a PTO and is delivering a mid-season-Kassian performance, just going through the motions. Given his baggage, he should be wowing the team to the point where there can't be a question about giving him a contract. But if he can't be bothered to play with a high energy as a PTO, he can gtfo. Nor do I have time for him in Bakersfield, which is already pretty full of young guys who need minutes, and vets that can lead the team.

I am far from an Archibald fan, but even give me him over what JV has shown. At least I never questioned Archi's give-a-f**k meter, and knew he would always try to play physical.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

A future 4th line of Benson/McLeod/Virtanen would be pretty darn good in my opinion.

you spelled Hamblin/Ryan wrong.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Shocked I tell you

4K as well

which is interesting.

 

[Aerchon]

I think the amount of scoring chances given up is pretty alarming regardless of the teams he's played with. Samo has played in basically all the same games and has a positive differential.

For context the Oilers have been out chanced in three games.

-4 against Jets. Niems Samo, Demers, Murray played.
-17 Calgary. Niems, Samo, Demers, Murray played.
-3 Jets again. Niems, Samo, Demers, Broberg played.

For me, Niems and Demers are the ones bleeding chances where as Samo and Murray are staying above water on bad teams. Niemelainen is at 8 scoring chances against a game which is pretty ugly.

Actually curious. I was surprised at these number when you posted them and I have no idea where you get them from.

Can you post last nights game? Because last night was similar to all the rest Niem played in... aka one of the best defenders on the ice yet again... so want to see if the number last night still paint a picture against Niem.

Thanks.

 

[The Safe Play]

Actually curious. I was surprised at these number when you posted them and I have no idea where you get them from.

Can you post last nights game? Because last night was similar to all the rest Niem played in... aka one of the best defenders on the ice yet again... so want to see if the number last night still paint a picture against Niem.

Thanks.

I usually check throughout the game to compare eye test to the numbers, but for whatever reason last night's wasn't tracked on naturalstattrick.com. I'll see if I can find another option.

 

[McTonyBrar]

Based off last game, I wouldn't mind if Broberg had more AHL time. He's still really young and Dmen take longer to mature. So if he gets sent down, no harm done. Let him get some more time and add more confidence with assertiveness

 

[AddyTheWrath]