Pre-Game Talk: Training Camp 2022/23

[Atoyot]

I don't care who Is on the third pair LD

this should be. the top 4 d to start year imo

I'd like to see Perfetti/Barron-Perfetti/Barron-Lambert, that could be the sheltered kid line I'm thinking of. Go out there and have fun. Get fancy and learn on the go. Reign them in when need be and let them make mistakes and figure out what works and what doesn't in this league during garbage time. Just telling a kid to stop doing what has made them successful in the past is a lot less effective than letting them learn first hand why it doesn't work, and it gives them an opportunity to adjust what they're good at into something that could work.

I feel like this team's at a point where they shouldn't really need to have Toninato in the lineup at all.

 

[DRW204]

I'd like to see Perfetti/Barron-Perfetti/Barron-Lambert, that could be the sheltered kid line I'm thinking of. Go out there and have fun. Get fancy and learn on the go. Reign them in when need be and let them make mistakes and figure out what works and what doesn't in this league during garbage time. Just telling a kid to stop doing what has made them successful in the past is a lot less effective than letting them learn first hand why it doesn't work, and it gives them an opportunity to adjust what they're good at into something that could work.

I feel like this team's at a point where they shouldn't really need to have Toninato in the lineup at all.

Agreed.
Especially in pre season when there's not 2 points at stake. I think you need to see what perfetti has at C with a player like Lambert who has some offensive skill.

 

[surixon]

I'd like to see Perfetti/Barron-Perfetti/Barron-Lambert, that could be the sheltered kid line I'm thinking of. Go out there and have fun. Get fancy and learn on the go. Reign them in when need be and let them make mistakes and figure out what works and what doesn't in this league during garbage time. Just telling a kid to stop doing what has made them successful in the past is a lot less effective than letting them learn first hand why it doesn't work, and it gives them an opportunity to adjust what they're good at into something that could work.

I feel like this team's at a point where they shouldn't really need to have Toninato in the lineup at all.

Agreed but imo the team is largely set in the top 9 and the only spot really open is the LW slot next to Lowry so they are trying to give Barron his opportunity in that role. My guess is they hope he claims it.

Perfetti has his slot in the top 6 and this game is really just to continue getting him up to speed. I'd prefer to see him in the middle though as I liked what he and Lambert did the one game they played together in rookie camp.

At this point I think Bead is on the outside looking in. He would likely have been given a fourth line look if he was still in the mix.

 

[Atoyot]

Agreed but imo the team is largely set in the top 9 and the only spot really open is the LW slot next to Lowry so they are trying to give Barron his opportunity in that role. My guess is they hope he claims it.

Perfetti has his slot in the top 6 and this game is really just to continue getting him up to speed. I'd prefer to see him in the middle though as I liked what he and Lambert did the one game they played together in rookie camp.

At this point I think Bead is on the outside looking in. He would likely have been given a fourth line look if he was still in the mix.

Oh yeah, I know what things are likely to be I'm more just throwing out ideas. Could be a fun 3rd line to use for a Lambert tryout and could give a look into the viability of a top-9 system with what's available versus top 6/bottom 6.

 

[surixon]

Oh yeah, I know what things are likely to be I'm more just throwing out ideas. Could be a fun 3rd line to use for a Lambert tryout and could give a look into the viability of a top-9 system with what's available versus top 6/bottom 6.

I definitely don't mind the idea and have been a long advocate of a true top 9 system. I'd probably spread the vets out in my version so as to not put as much pressure on the kids.

 

[JetsFan815]

I agree.

My question is, why?

We've had plenty of info from insiders on this; Murat in his most recent column notes that he believes that Stanley's job is "safe," but I'm not sure why that would be based on recent (and not so recent) performance trends.

3LD is clearly not as important a position as some, but it's still an area where the team can optimize in order to generate, say, more offence or tighter defence -- I'm finding it hard to work out just what the org sees in Stanley at this point over other options, and I've been a supporter of his from the beginning.

Stanley getting that #6 job would be the case of the one-eyed man being king in the land of the blind. Based on Murat's reporting the #6 job has genuinely been wide open. Let's hope one of Heinola/Samberg can impress in the remaining 2 preseason games.

 

[Jet]

I agree.

My question is, why?

We've had plenty of info from insiders on this; Murat in his most recent column notes that he believes that Stanley's job is "safe," but I'm not sure why that would be based on recent (and not so recent) performance trends.

3LD is clearly not as important a position as some, but it's still an area where the team can optimize in order to generate, say, more offence or tighter defence -- I'm finding it hard to work out just what the org sees in Stanley at this point over other options, and I've been a supporter of his from the beginning.

I think he offers some stability and experience. I think the org sees him a having a lot more development left in him.

Not saying true or false, just my thought. If you could ever get a huge guy performing at a good shutdown level, that's a very valuable piece especially in the playoffs.

I also think the Jets have some good offensive options in Morrissey, Schmidt and Pionk. With defence being out main area of improvement, they might want more of a defense biased trio to fill that out

 

[surixon]

I think he offers some stability and experience. I think the org sees him a having a lot more development left in him.

Not saying true or false, just my thought. If you could ever get a huge guy performing at a good shutdown level, that's a very valuable piece especially in the playoffs.

I also think the Jets have some good offensive options in Morrissey, Schmidt and Pionk. With defence being out main area of improvement, they might want more of a defense biased trio to fill that out

The problem though is Stanley is yet another offensive dmen being miscast as a shut down guy.

His defensive game has never been very good. We are now going on 7 years of them trying to develop that area of his game. How much longer do you give to this experiment.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I don't see how we can call this anything like "a toss up" because we just don't know enough about Heinola and his upside. IMO we have a pretty good idea what Stanley is. I think the org needs to make learning exactly what we have in Heinola a priority.

Same goes for Samberg.

 

[LowLefty]

The problem though is Stanley is yet another offensive dmen being miscast as a shut down guy.

His defensive game has never been very good. We are now going on 7 years of them trying to develop that area of his game. How much longer do you give to this experiment.

I'll agree he has been miscast - from a coaching standpoint. I'm not sure the org knew what to do with him the last 7 years.
I highly doubt they are looking at his history under Huddy to get a sense of what he might be able to do -

I think he offers some stability and experience. I think the org sees him a having a lot more development left in him.

Not saying true or false, just my thought. If you could ever get a huge guy performing at a good shutdown level, that's a very valuable piece especially in the playoffs.

I also think the Jets have some good offensive options in Morrissey, Schmidt and Pionk. With defence being out main area of improvement, they might want more of a defense biased trio to fill that out

Agreed -
They want to see what they can get out of Stan under decent coaching and a game plan for his development.

 

[DRW204]

schmdit was fine when not paired w/ stanley. i think b/c he and stanley were towards the later part of the year that may our lasting memory of him. the 2 anchors of dmen on this roster last year appear to be stanley and pionk.

yea it seems like they're all getting a look again. whether wrongly or rightly is tbd. personnally this past couple months been pushing for a top-4 of:

morrissey-demelo
dillon-schmidt

i am still wondering where bowness thinks all these supposed goals for Dmen are going to appear that he adamantly referenced at the beg. of TC. 24 goals was our total last year, we were 12th in D shots for, league average was 36.5 team def. totals. 50% of your D-group being composed of low-scorers such as demelo+pionk+dillon. last thing i think we need to see is more Logan Stanley point shots.

They all get a mulligan for LY IMO -
Aside from Stan, I would also assume the org wants to see more from a few of the guys higher in the pay grade - especially Pionk and Smitty. I'm sure LY was not the best we will see from these guys - IOW's, we don't assume we say the best we will see from this group.
Now we have a new learning curve - you'd have to assume the team will give them time to adjust before making roster decisions for the bubble players or potentially involve trades down the road on any of them.

I agree Stan is getting a lot of wiggle room for the reasons you noted and the points I added above.

 

[surixon]

schmdit was fine when not paired w/ stanley. i think b/c he and stanley were towards the later part of the year that may our lasting memory of him. the 2 anchors of dmen on this roster last year appear to be stanley and pionk.

View attachment 590828

yea it seems like they're all getting a look again. whether wrongly or rightly is tbd. personnally this past couple months been pushing for a top-4 of:

morrissey-demelo
dillon-schmidt

i am still wondering where bowness thinks all these supposed goals for Dmen are going to appear that he adamantly referenced at the beg. of TC. 24 goals was our total last year, we were 12th in D shots for, league average was 36.5 team def. totals. 50% of your D-group being composed of low-scorers such as demelo+pionk+dillon. last thing i think we need to see is more Logan Stanley point shots.

How many goals did the defense put up in each of the two years prior to that and where did it rank league wise.

I'm curious of we fared better or worse those years with a worse dcore.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Agreed but imo the team is largely set in the top 9 and the only spot really open is the LW slot next to Lowry so they are trying to give Barron his opportunity in that role. My guess is they hope he claims it.

Perfetti has his slot in the top 6 and this game is really just to continue getting him up to speed. I'd prefer to see him in the middle though as I liked what he and Lambert did the one game they played together in rookie camp.

At this point I think Bead is on the outside looking in. He would likely have been given a fourth line look if he was still in the mix.

Just curious - who is on the outside looking in?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think he offers some stability and experience. I think the org sees him a having a lot more development left in him.

Not saying true or false, just my thought. If you could ever get a huge guy performing at a good shutdown level, that's a very valuable piece especially in the playoffs.

I also think the Jets have some good offensive options in Morrissey, Schmidt and Pionk. With defence being out main area of improvement, they might want more of a defense biased trio to fill that out

Not saying you are wrong about what the org believes - but he is 24 YO. How many 24 year old hockey players still have a lot more development left in them? Even a little more?

The problem though is Stanley is yet another offensive dmen being miscast as a shut down guy.

His defensive game has never been very good. We are now going on 7 years of them trying to develop that area of his game. How much longer do you give to this experiment.

He is not that good offensively either.

 

[surixon]

Not saying you are wrong about what the org believes - but he is 24 YO. How many 24 year old hockey players still have a lot more development left in them? Even a little more?



He is not that good offensively either.

Which is the conundrum. He doesn't do anything well enough to justify an everyday NHL job.

 

[MardyBum]

schmdit was fine when not paired w/ stanley. i think b/c he and stanley were towards the later part of the year that may our lasting memory of him. the 2 anchors of dmen on this roster last year appear to be stanley and pionk.

View attachment 590828

yea it seems like they're all getting a look again. whether wrongly or rightly is tbd. personnally this past couple months been pushing for a top-4 of:

morrissey-demelo
dillon-schmidt

i am still wondering where bowness thinks all these supposed goals for Dmen are going to appear that he adamantly referenced at the beg. of TC. 24 goals was our total last year, we were 12th in D shots for, league average was 36.5 team def. totals. 50% of your D-group being composed of low-scorers such as demelo+pionk+dillon. last thing i think we need to see is more Logan Stanley point shots.

We'll see about Pionk this year, not going to excuse his full year last year but he did get concussed from Spezza and then he admitted today?(I think) something we all knew, that he injured his foot blocking a shot in February and it took weeks into the offseason before it was healed. Maurice's fault for continuing to play him but I wouldn't lump him in with Stanley, yet

 

[LowLefty]

i am still wondering where bowness thinks all these supposed goals for Dmen are going to appear that he adamantly referenced at the beg. of TC. 24 goals was our total last year, we were 12th in D shots for, league average was 36.5 team def. totals. 50% of your D-group being composed of low-scorers such as demelo+pionk+dillon. last thing i think we need to see is more Logan Stanley point shots.

He likely expects more goals with a more aggressive d group as a whole -

If they are pinching more and getting involved in the offense, guys like Smitty, Pionk, JoMo should be able to put up more points than they have - especially when you consider they are supposed to be offensive dmen to begin with (JoMo more of a wannabe) -

Why else would you pay Smitty and Pionk $6M yr if they can't produce offense? I assume that is what they are supposed to be.

If we wanted to really evaluate our offensive punch from the blueline, that's where I'd start rather than trying to add more via other players.

TBH, I'm less concerned about offense from our blueline - I'd rather see better defending. Bones is likely seeing the low hanging fruit being production from the D - but he might be assuming he'll get it with system changes and more aggressive ozone play.

As for Stan, I agree that the org is going to give him another opportunity under improved coaching.
Fans on this board don't agree with that strategy but it looks like that's how it will be out of the gate at least.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Which is the conundrum. He doesn't do anything well enough to justify an everyday NHL job.

He should be a 7/8.

Compare him to some of the plugs we have had in recent years who were 7/8 and ended up playing quite a bit for one reason or another. Is he as good as/better/worse than Beaulieu? Bitetto? etc? I suspect he is close to the level of those guys. Might be a bit better than some, a bit worse than others.

 

[B33R LEAGUE]

Preach

 

[DRW204]

We'll see about Pionk this year, not going to excuse his full year last year but he did get concussed from Spezza and then he admitted today?(I think) something we all knew, that he injured his foot blocking a shot in February and it took weeks into the offseason before it was healed. Maurice's fault for continuing to play him but I wouldn't lump him in with Stanley, yet

idk i am probably the wrong person to discuss pionk with as i really haven't been a huge fan of his and don't really see IT with him. he was fantastic in the CDN Div year, his 19-20 and his NYR year rate closer to the last season in terms of defensive play which was quite bad. i think he will drive bowness nuts with his defense.

How many goals did the defense put up in each of the two years prior to that and where did it rank league wise.

I'm curious of we fared better or worse those years with a worse dcore.

season: goals/goals rank/shots rank
19-20: 21/29th/22nd
CDN DIV: 10/31st/17th
21-22: 24/31st/12th

not sure what to make of it other than our D group aren't really composed of scorers. 2/3s of the D group is the same as the CDN div year. Dillon doesn't score, and Schmidt is 6-7 goals/82 gp since his career high season.

id be looking at our d group for playmaking and prolonging offense rather than shoot-to-score.

 

[FlappyGiraffe]

idk i am probably the wrong person to discuss pionk with as i really haven't been a huge fan of his and don't really see IT with him. he was fantastic in the CDN Div year, his 19-20 and his NYR year rate closer to the last season in terms of defensive play which was quite bad. i think he will drive bowness nuts with his defense.


season: goals/goals rank/shots rank
19-20: 21/29th/22nd
CDN DIV: 10/31st/17th
21-22: 24/31st/12th

not sure what to make of it other than our D group aren't really composed of scorers. 2/3s of the D group is the same as the CDN div year. Dillon doesn't score, and Schmidt is 6-7 goals/82 gp since his career high season.

id be looking at our d group for playmaking and prolonging offense rather than shoot-to-score.

Hopefully Stanley can step up this year in the goal department, he's pretty good at getting shots off

 

[surixon]

idk i am probably the wrong person to discuss pionk with as i really haven't been a huge fan of his and don't really see IT with him. he was fantastic in the CDN Div year, his 19-20 and his NYR year rate closer to the last season in terms of defensive play which was quite bad. i think he will drive bowness nuts with his defense.


season: goals/goals rank/shots rank
19-20: 21/29th/22nd
CDN DIV: 10/31st/17th
21-22: 24/31st/12th

not sure what to make of it other than our D group aren't really composed of scorers. 2/3s of the D group is the same as the CDN div year. Dillon doesn't score, and Schmidt is 6-7 goals/82 gp since his career high season.

id be looking at our d group for playmaking and prolonging offense rather than shoot-to-score.

Ok so they have been bad each of the last three years in that metric. I'm very curious as well on how they plan on getting more goals from them.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

Ok so they have been bad each of the last three years in that metric. I'm very curious as well on how they plan on getting more goals from them.

I don't get Bowness' reasoning behind wanting x number more goals from his D. How about just wanting x number more goals, and not worry about who is the last to touch the puck, whether it's a F or a D or an opposing player's ass.

 

[Jet]

The problem though is Stanley is yet another offensive dmen being miscast as a shut down guy.

His defensive game has never been very good. We are now going on 7 years of them trying to develop that area of his game. How much longer do you give to this experiment.

You can teach d, you can't teach offensive skill. Look at who his coach was for the past 2 seasons.

He may never get better, but let's see how he performs this year.

Not saying you are wrong about what the org believes - but he is 24 YO. How many 24 year old hockey players still have a lot more development left in them? Even a little more?



He is not that good offensively either.

I believe defensive defensemen continue to improve into their early thirties, because it relies on experience, confidence and repetition.

Not saying you are wrong about what the org believes - but he is 24 YO. How many 24 year old hockey players still have a lot more development left in them? Even a little more?



He is not that good offensively either.

I believe defensive defensemen continue to improve into their early thirties, because it relies on experience, confidence and repetition.

 

[Jet]

I don't get Bowness' reasoning behind wanting x number more goals from his D. How about just wanting x number more goals, and not worry about who is the last to touch the puck, whether it's a F or a D or an opposing player's ass.

Because active offensive defensemen, when executed properly, are offensive multipliers, and also improve the team defensively by being up the ice more.

It relies on forwards providing the correct support, which we have not had here for years but I'd expect to change.