Pre-Game Talk: Training Camp 2022/23

[surixon]

I think Heinola has shown very well, but he's also shown some of his warts defensively. I do think overall he's a net positive over Stanley.

I thought Samberg was a lock going into this season but I think maybe he's going to have to go down and be the first injury callup and then play his way onto the team.

I could see what you said playing out.

I think it's going to depend on what attribute Bowness is looking for more. Is offense from the back end a higher priority or us locking things down defensively. If it's the former Heinola has to be the front runner, if it's the later then Stanley or Snerg get the spot.

 

[Jet]

I think it's going to depend on what attribute Bowness is looking for more. Is offense from the back end a higher priority or us locking things down defensively. If it's the former Heinola has to be the front runner, if it's the later then Stanley or Snerg get the spot.

I actually think Stanley has the spot already. The problem becomes you don't want good young players not getting reps.

The 'good' news is that d injuries are inevitable. Both Samberg and Heinola will get their chances.

The main difference this year is that I think instead of the Jets picking up tweener plugs they are going to use their bench strength to address injury, which is a great step.

 

[Jack7222]

I think Heinola has shown very well, but he's also shown some of his warts defensively. I do think overall he's a net positive over Stanley.

I thought Samberg was a lock going into this season but I think maybe he's going to have to go down and be the first injury callup and then play his way onto the team.

I could see what you said playing out.

Stanley has already received sooo much trust and such a run of games; it's hard for me to imagine him suddenly taking any major steps forward. I would really love to see Heinola given a good run like that with a stable partner. He's an intelligent, creative player and needs time to find his game and figure out what works and what doesn't.

I still think there's a MAJOR opportunity cost to running so many D. Yeah you want to get a look at everyone with the new coaching, but I'm not sure you're going to get a good enough look and we may end up wasting a lot of value if we move on from Heinola at this point.

You're so right on the lack of plugs blocking the way, and what a blunder that was looking back. Maybe this problem will sort itself out through injury.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

My early roster after the pre season games

Ehlers/Scheif/Connor
Perfetti/Dubois/Wheeler
Manu/Lowry/Apples
Gagner/Gus/Lambert
Harkins/Barron

Morrissey/Demelo
Heinola/Schmidt
Dillion/Pionk
Stanley/Samberg

Big question is if Barron is ready for a few games or not. I think Lambert gets a couple of the exhibition games against a fuller NHL roster to see what he can do. He might stick for 9 games or so before he goes to where ever

I just have a feeling this is it for Heinola. Either he is here or they move him. We really need a pure offensive guy on the backend

 

[DRW204]

seems like the concern is over 3LD when it's probably one of the least consequential positions on the team. COL had Jack Johnson there last year, TBL with some combo of Schenn/Coburn/Rutta in recent years.

what is our top-4 shaping up to be?

 

[Jack7222]

seems like the concern is over 3LD when it's probably one of the least consequential positions on the team. COL had Jack Johnson there last year, TBL with some combo of Schenn/Coburn/Rutta in recent years.

what is our top-4 shaping up to be?

I don't know if it's about 3LD per se, it's more about giving opportunity to prospects. If Heinola works out and hits like he's projected he may become more than a 3LD in short order (assuming he starts there). We need to see what we have in a highly-touted first round draft pick imo.

 

[ffh]

I don't know if it's about 3LD per se, it's more about giving opportunity to prospects. If Heinola works out and hits like he's projected he may become more than a 3LD in short order (assuming he starts there). We need to see what we have in a highly-touted first round draft pick imo.

he is still on his elc. regardless of where he starts he will get plenty of games in the nhl this year,

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

its nigh impossible to develop a C the traditional way with Scheifele and Dubois on the team.

Fortunately, we won't have that problem for much longer.

 

[scelaton]

Stanley has already received sooo much trust and such a run of games; it's hard for me to imagine him suddenly taking any major steps forward. I would really love to see Heinola given a good run like that with a stable partner. He's an intelligent, creative player and needs time to find his game and figure out what works and what doesn't.

I still think there's a MAJOR opportunity cost to running so many D. Yeah you want to get a look at everyone with the new coaching, but I'm not sure you're going to get a good enough look and we may end up wasting a lot of value if we move on from Heinola at this point.

You're so right on the lack of plugs blocking the way, and what a blunder that was looking back. Maybe this problem will sort itself out through injury.

Agree with all of this.
Re Heinola, if you recall last pre-season, he was very tentative and mistake prone, despite his skill set. This year, he is much better, though still a bit tentative. I think this is 80% a confidence thing and the only way to see the real Heinola is to give him a 10-20 run of games with a good partner. We really have nothing to lose because good Stanley is not much better than bad Heinola.

Be bold, Bowness. Or, one might put it this way--if Bowness Boldly Backs Big Bad Brad, then Vy not Ville?

 

[nags]

My early roster after the pre season games

Ehlers/Scheif/Connor
Perfetti/Dubois/Wheeler
Manu/Lowry/Apples
Gagner/Gus/Lambert
Harkins/Barron

Morrissey/Demelo
Heinola/Schmidt
Dillion/Pionk
Stanley/Samberg

Big question is if Barron is ready for a few games or not. I think Lambert gets a couple of the exhibition games against a fuller NHL roster to see what he can do. He might stick for 9 games or so before he goes to where ever

I just have a feeling this is it for Heinola. Either he is here or they move him. We really need a pure offensive guy on the backend

I think you need to look at Kovacevic's two pre-season games again. Nearly mistake-free. Doing all those little things that keep a defenseman off the radar, i.e., he is doing his job in his own end while maintaining a very strong gap moving up and supporting the offense. I was really impressed by the details to his game both in his own zone and in the offensive zone.

I looked at last year's stats. Plus 23 on the Moose. Well ahead of everyone else. It shows just how mature his game is and I suspect the Jets will not expose him since other team's are starting to notice.

 

[WolfHouse]

I’d run this for the rest of preseason
Connor-PLD-Lambert
Ehlers-scheif-apples
Harkins-perfetti-gagner
Manu-gus-barron

 

[LowLefty]

Agree with all of this.
Re Heinola, if you recall last pre-season, he was very tentative and mistake prone, despite his skill set. This year, he is much better, though still a bit tentative. I think this is 80% a confidence thing and the only way to see the real Heinola is to give him a 10-20 run of games with a good partner. We really have nothing to lose because good Stanley is not much better than bad Heinola.

Be bold, Bowness. Or, one might put it this way--if Bowness Boldly Backs Big Bad Brad, then Vy not Ville?

It comes down to Stan vs Ville in regular season games - that is where they need to be compared TY.
It's a toss up IMO and will depend on what Bones wants - more offense or a more physical defense.
I also want to see more of Ville in a reg season role to confirm if he is in fact, better - the AHL preseason won't prove that - we already know Ville is good in the A.

As for Brad, he's an elite skater - that makes the game much easier for him at this point in his career.

 

[DRW204]

I don't care who Is on the third pair LD

this should be. the top 4 d to start year imo

 

[BoneDocUK]

I actually think Stanley has the spot already. The problem becomes you don't want good young players not getting reps.

The 'good' news is that d injuries are inevitable. Both Samberg and Heinola will get their chances.

The main difference this year is that I think instead of the Jets picking up tweener plugs they are going to use their bench strength to address injury, which is a great step.

I agree.

My question is, why?

We've had plenty of info from insiders on this; Murat in his most recent column notes that he believes that Stanley's job is "safe," but I'm not sure why that would be based on recent (and not so recent) performance trends.

3LD is clearly not as important a position as some, but it's still an area where the team can optimize in order to generate, say, more offence or tighter defence -- I'm finding it hard to work out just what the org sees in Stanley at this point over other options, and I've been a supporter of his from the beginning.

 

[10Ducky10]

I’d run this for the rest of preseason
Connor-PLD-Lambert
Ehlers-scheif-apples
Harkins-perfetti-gagner
Manu-gus-barron

Lowry is in the PB?

 

[Jack7222]

It comes down to Stan vs Ville in regular season games - that is where they need to be compared TY.
It's a toss up IMO and will depend on what Bones wants - more offense or a more physical defense.
I also want to see more of Ville in a reg season role to confirm if he is in fact, better - the AHL preseason won't prove that - we already know Ville is good in the A.

As for Brad, he's an elite skater - that makes the game much easier for him at this point in his career.

I don't see how we can call this anything like "a toss up" because we just don't know enough about Heinola and his upside. IMO we have a pretty good idea what Stanley is. I think the org needs to make learning exactly what we have in Heinola a priority.

 

[DRW204]

I don't know if it's about 3LD per se, it's more about giving opportunity to prospects. If Heinola works out and hits like he's projected he may become more than a 3LD in short order (assuming he starts there). We need to see what we have in a highly-touted first round draft pick imo.

i don't disagree. just saying whenever i pop in here or among other forums the discussion is about 3LD when it's of least concern. our top-4 playing at a high level should be the highest priority of the D group.

im fully prepared for heinola to not be on the roster to start this year. and perhaps heinola's potential isn't as high as we initially thought.

 

[John Agar]

I don't care who Is on the third pair LD

this should be. the top 4 d to start year imo

Harkins-Dubois-Wheeler...

Blockbuster trade incoming.... ?

All 3 players involved... ?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think Heinola has shown very well, but he's also shown some of his warts defensively. I do think overall he's a net positive over Stanley.

I thought Samberg was a lock going into this season but I think maybe he's going to have to go down and be the first injury callup and then play his way onto the team.

I could see what you said playing out.

Really, it could just as easily be Samberg and Stanley competing for that spot, with Heinola going down.

Yeah, I had Samberg as a lock too, but he has not had a great TC. I don't know how the coaches will view that. He is at an age where he needs to start playing in the NHL, if he is ever going to.

 

[LowLefty]

I don't see how we can call this anything like "a toss up" because we just don't know enough about Heinola and his upside. IMO we have a pretty good idea what Stanley is. I think the org needs to make learning exactly what we have in Heinola a priority.

Like I said, I'm all for seeing more of Ville -
It's a toss up because at this point, they both bring different things and they both have strengths and weaknesses - depends on what the org wants from their 3rd pair LHD.
I'll also assume that the org is working with Stan the same way they are working with Ville - new systems, new everything - so they might have a different opinion of what Stan is or can be (same goes for Ville).

 

[MosTLucky]

I would way rather like to see Gus between Perfetti and Lambert than Toninato. But it looks like Saku-Gus-Ganger might be the 4th line to start the year, which I like

 

[DRW204]

Like I said, I'm all for seeing more of Ville -
It's a toss up because at this point, they both bring different things and they both have strengths and weaknesses - depends on what the org wants from their 3rd pair LHD.
I'll also assume that the org is working with Stan the same way they are working with Ville - new systems, new everything - so they might have a different opinion of what Stan is or can be (same goes for Ville).

agree on we need to see more of ville. however at the same time, given that stanley is not waiver-exempt, and the amount of time/resources/draft-capital/expansion draft protection they have given him, additionally with the org. still desperately wanting to be correct on his supposed potential, i think he will be getting that spot.

also, i love how in discussions we arbitrary give players mulligans for poor years, the org. can be doing the exact same w/ stanley for last year. new staff/set-of-eyes, there could be sort of a "blank slate" for the personnel from last year.

 

[surixon]

Harkins-Dubois-Wheeler...

Blockbuster trade incoming.... ?

All 3 players involved... ?

Perfetti wanted to get in 5 preseason games to get his timing back. Neither Blake or Dubois are expected to play tomorrow so they are running Cole on the make shift line that is to play tomorrow so he's familiar with his linemates.

He will almost assuredly return to LW on Dubois and Blake's line on Thursday.

Harkins is just a place holder until then. I wouldn't read anything into it.

 

[John Agar]

Perfetti wanted to get in 5 preseason games to get his timing back. Neither Blake or Dubois are expected to play tomorrow so they are running Cole on the make shift line that is to play tomorrow so he's familiar with his linemates.

He will almost assuredly return to LW on Dubois and Blake's line on Thursday.

Harkins is just a place holder until then. I wouldn't read anything into it.

Oh Surix'...

You're spoiling the fun...

1) Clear huge amounts of Cap...
2) Give value to a piece that has been beaten out in camp, but still has "potential"... unproven...
3) Move a player whose agent (and most likely him having duplicity) floated his eventual destination... when he has max value with 2 years left....

For a quality Centre from another team... or a package of picks and a young Centre with upside...

Fun to speculate...

 

[LowLefty]

agree on we need to see more of ville. however at the same time, given that stanley is not waiver-exempt, and the amount of time/resources/draft-capital/expansion draft protection they have given him, additionally with the org. still desperately wanting to be correct on his supposed potential, i think he will be getting that spot.

also, i love how in discussions we arbitrary give players mulligans for poor years, the org. can be doing the exact same w/ stanley for last year. new staff/set-of-eyes, there could be sort of a "blank slate" for the personnel from last year.

They all get a mulligan for LY IMO -
Aside from Stan, I would also assume the org wants to see more from a few of the guys higher in the pay grade - especially Pionk and Smitty. I'm sure LY was not the best we will see from these guys - IOW's, we don't assume we say the best we will see from this group.
Now we have a new learning curve - you'd have to assume the team will give them time to adjust before making roster decisions for the bubble players or potentially involve trades down the road on any of them.

I agree Stan is getting a lot of wiggle room for the reasons you noted and the points I added above.