Pre-Game Talk: Training Camp 2022/23

[puck stoppa]

I don't think he has the skating to be a top line center. He would need to play 200 feet all the time. I think he is much better suited to cheating for offense because his hockey IQ is probably the highest on the team. Essentially I would rather have him worry about creating offense from the red line in instead of worrying about defense from the goal line out. Not that he is a bad defensive player, he isn't but I think he could be a 80+ point player in the league because his offensive game is that good.

He is really good at stripping the puck and his placement on the ice is top level. I just feel right now at least I want offense from him and I don't want to stymie it by having to go up against the McDavids/Matthews of the league

I said this from day 1 and I was his biggest fan before the draft and after. This is bang on.

 

[surixon]

It is for draws that I think Perfetti could use a little more bulk.

The only other reasons I don't see him at C are - 1) Skating which he appears to have largely fixed and, 2) the Jets just don't seem to have any interest in developing him at C. That 2nd one may not be a good reason except that it trumps all other factors. Seems strange to me given the PLD talk and possible expiry date on Scheifele, but that is what they show.

Perfetti - Lowry - Lambert could be interesting, and fun, but then who fills out the top 6 wings?

Lowry was playing with Appelton and Barron today. They had Toninoto between the kids as Dubois was absent again.

It looks like the top 9 is set.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Personally I don't want any skaters cheating for offense on the team this year. I donget your point about wanting to develop his offensive skills first. I don't really have any issue with starting him at wing and allowing those skills to develop. But at some point we need to start planning for if/when Dubois and Scheifele leave.

While I get the skating concern I think his smarts more then offset that. Plus I expect his skating will continue to improve over the next few seasons anyhow. He's already made significant strides there.

I think he has the positioning, vision, smarts and high end play driving to be a excellent center in this league. He is also already pretty strong on his skates so size isn't a big concern either.



Oh I'm sure that is the plan as the other lines look set today with Toninoto as the obvious placeholder. I doubt Blake will want to play each of the last two games anyhow so why not give him one more game with some skilled linemates.

OK, you've sold me. Now get the Jets brain trust to play him at C.

By my count there are 9 competing for 6 spots now (please correct me if I am wrong).

Toninato
Gagner
Harkins
Lowry
Appleton
Gus
Lambert
Barron
Maenalanen

Pretty well pencil in Lowry, Appleton, Gagner so leaves 6 competing for 3 spots.

Likely fillers are Harkins and Toninato, although I do wonder if Toninato may see the PB as he has been underwhelming.

I really like Gus but he has been underwhelming as well, and Barron hasn't played yet so it is hard to peg him. Lambert is likely showing to see where he lands elsewhere so I feel Maenalanen is the guy to beat. And I have liked what I have seen from him.

With underwhelming TC's from both Toninato and Gus, I wonder if Barron gets a shot at 4C?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Well they played him at C all rookie camp and Chvey keeps talking about him being a C. Perhaps they are taking the Copp approach given their penchant to want Lowry playing C on line 3.

Breaks in at wing and when comfortable give him reps at C whenever a top 6 injury arises.

Yeah, maybe. I don't like that plan. Play him at wing and then all of a sudden one day, tell him he is a C. If he is going to learn to be a C, he needs to play C. They used him at wing in the A, which is the best place for him to have learned to play pro C.

I had forgotten about them playing him at C in rookie camp.

 

[surixon]

Perfectly fine with these moves, neither have impressed me. Stenlund has some good tools but looks lost often, Reichel is all motor no tools no toolbox. Has a good shot too I guess.

Perfetti-Lowry-Lambert line in camp right now. I'd love a kid line for a 3rd line. Spread the talent we have if need be.

Don't understand people thinking that Perfetti can't be a center. He's already better defensively than Scheifele, he's rock solid on his skates so you can't really point to his size. If anything his biggest issue is that he's awful at faceoffs. For a team that has pointed to not having right handed wingers as an issue for so long it's weird that they keep using Scheifele as a center when he plays like a winger anyways. Hell give Perfetti the center's responsibilities and let Scheifele take the draws.


I'm actually not entirely sure, I'll try to find an answer for you.

Given that he's barely taken any faceoffs it's no surprise

OK, you've sold me. Now get the Jets brain trust to play him at C.



With underwhelming TC's from both Toninato and Gus, I wonder if Barron gets a shot at 4C?

Seems Bowness wants to get a good look at him with Lowry and Appelton so likely not at 4C for now.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Reminds me of this classic Ehlers move for the Mooseheads…

I don't think Jets have ever gotten the max out of Ehlers.

 

[surixon]

Yeah, maybe. I don't like that plan. Play him at wing and then all of a sudden one day, tell him he is a C. If he is going to learn to be a C, he needs to play C. They used him at wing in the A, which is the best place for him to have learned to play pro C.

I had forgotten about them playing him at C in rookie camp.

He played C his first year in the A. Then he played C for the first few games the next year before playing primarily at wing until the WJC. But he was sill double shifting as the 4C on the Moose during that period. So they have still been giving him reps down the middle.

He wouldn't be the first prospect who was brought in at wing and then moved to center after getting comfortable.

I'd rather play him at center as well but until the org stops inviting on Lowry at 3C its nigh impossible to develop a C the traditional way with Scheifele and Dubois on the team.

 

[DRW204]

It doesn't matter what we think... Evidently the coaching staff hasn't viewed him good enough as a C yet. Rookie camp, seriously? Look at the roster. Who are the other fwds, notably Cs? He's the best of a bunch of non-NHLers.

Even Lucius was playing C and I don't think any one views him as an NHL C either.

Remind me did perfetti play as a C any time in the World Jrs? The lineup card I saw had him as Wing as well.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Really it's only the second staff - and I think Stanley has gotten progressively stronger.

Keeping Heinola up really seems like the right play as he's shown he can play both sides now so he could be very versatile if we have an injury on either side. However, I wouldn't want him rotting in the PB so maybe they keep Kovy up as a PB guy, and have Samberg and Heinola as first call ups. Not ideal, but unless they make a move I don't know.

I think they could also platoon Stanley and either Heinola or Samberg - I don't think Samberg has done much this TC to earn a spot unfortunately

Neither has Stanley.
Heinola hasn't done as much as we might have liked, but I think he has done more than the other 2. Samberg is still waiver exempt, so he could go down. Keep Kovy in the PB and let Stanley and Heinola continue to compete for a spot until one or the other wins. Right now, I'd say Heinola is a bit ahead, but they might want Stan to PK.

I think that the fact that Heinola does not need waivers is a factor in him possibly starting with the Moose.

I think he easily could play on the 3rd pair, and besides a very bad giveaway has looked probably the best of the 3. But I'm not sure if they would want to keep all 3 up and have 2 of them sitting in the PB on a consistent basis.

Wild ass guess, but thinking they start with JoMo, Dillon, Samberg, Stanley on the left, and Demelo, Pionk, Schmidt, and Kovy on the right (if they start with 8 D).

And then Heinola (and Chisholm) are in line for callups.

I don't think that is wild assed, but Samberg is also waiver exempt.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

He played C his first year in the A. Then he played C for the first few games the next year before playing primarily at wing until the WJC. But he was sill double shifting as the 4C on the Moose during that period. So they have still been giving him reps down the middle.

He wouldn't be the first prospect who was brought in at wing and then moved to center after getting comfortable.

I'd rather play him at center as well but until the org stops inviting on Lowry at 3C its nigh impossible to develop a C the traditional way with Scheifele and Dubois on the team.

I think the traditional way would be to develop him at 3C, at least for a while, so it isn't about Scheifele and PLD. It is about Lowry.

The start at W thing before moving to C is just for a short adjustment period, like 20-30 games or so - IMO. I don't recall too many instances of a good C coming from a guy who has developed for several years at W. Wheeler being an exception and that was highly unusual since Wheeler had played his entire career at W.

 

[NA Hockey]

It doesn't matter what we think... Evidently the coaching staff hasn't viewed him good enough as a C yet. Rookie camp, seriously? Look at the roster. Who are the other fwds, notably Cs? He's the best of a bunch of non-NHLers.

Even Lucius was playing C and I don't think any one views him as an NHL C either.

Remind me did perfetti play as a C any time in the World Jrs? The lineup card I saw had him as Wing as well.

Of course he isn't good enough yet. He is not better than Scheifele or Dubois at this point and they want Lowry at 3C. He is certainly capable and his offensive gifts suit the middle of the ice, but his hockey IQ allows him to play all three forward positions with success which is great for him and the team. It gives him the opportunity to learn the NHL game and contribute to the team at higher level than forcing him 3c or 4c right now. The team is better off right now getting 50-60 points from him in the top 6 as a skill player as opposed to playing 3C and getting 30 points. They can get 30 points from Lowry at 3c but they have no one else with the upside to play top 6 at this point and contribute so much.

At the WJC he played wing but the reason is because that lineup is full of natural C's and he was by far the most versatile and the best at playing wing of those available centres. eg McTavish is as good a centre as him and brings high value there but Perfetti is by far the better winger. So in the best interest of the team they played MacT there. Same with Wright, he is good centre 200ft but has no idea how to play wing.

 

[DRW204]

Of course he isn't good enough yet. He is not better than Scheifele or Dubois at this point and they want Lowry at 3C. He is certainly capable and his offensive gifts suit the middle of the ice, but his hockey IQ allows him to play all three forward positions with success which is great for him and the team. It gives him the opportunity to learn the NHL game and contribute to the team at higher level than forcing him 3c or 4c right now. The team is better off right now getting 50-60 points from him in the top 6 as a skill player as opposed to playing 3C and getting 30 points. They can get 30 points from Lowry at 3c but they have no one else with the upside to play top 6 at this point and contribute so much.

At the WJC he played wing but the reason is because that lineup is full of natural C's and he was by far the most versatile and the best at playing wing of those available centres. eg McTavish is as good a centre as him and brings high value there but Perfetti is by far the better winger. So in the best interest of the team they played MacT there. Same with Wright, he is good centre 200ft but has no idea how to play wing.

Thanks for recapping my last couple post in this thread.

 

[Mud Turtle]

I wish they would have asked more questions about Brad Lambert.

 

[WolfHouse]

Connor-PLD-Ehlers would be a nice line
Perfetti-Scheif-Apples
Barron-Lowry-wheeler
Harkins-Gus-Gagner

 

[DRW204]

I wish they would have asked more questions about Brad Lambert.

I wish we could get a Brad Lambert ELC signing

 

[Gabe Kupari]

Connor-PLD-Ehlers would be a nice line
Perfetti-Scheif-Apples
Barron-Lowry-wheeler
Harkins-Gus-Gagner

I'd go

Perfetti Scheif Ehlers
Connor Dubois Wheeler
Barron Lowry Apples
Saku Gus Gagner

Wtf has Harkins done? Nothing
Honestly at this point maybe I waive Harkins and Toninato is 13th forward and we keep around Ville and Samberg

 

[Gabe Kupari]

Let's be honest. Harkins Toni Saku Gus are all fighting for spots.

Saku has been the best. Gus kills penalties well. Toni can Play center and wing. Harkins? Nothing. Looks good for 3 games every year for 4 years? Time to say bye to Jansen. Saku is making this team either as 3 or 4 LW

 

[voyageur]

Lowry was playing with Appelton and Barron today. They had Toninoto between the kids as Dubois was absent again.

It looks like the top 9 is set.

I'd like to see Maenalanen-Gustafsson-Lambert as the 4th line, something completely different from last year, with Gagner and Toninato in the PB to start. I think the Jets should put Harkins on waivers. If nothing else he could get some confidence and fire built up as the top line centre for the Moose.

Lambert should get a decent look, if this team wants to win this year, because many players won't be back next year, so far Lambert has shown he can have an impact.

 

[lomiller1]

I'd go

Perfetti Scheif Ehlers
Connor Dubois Wheeler
Barron Lowry Apples
Saku Gus Gagner

Wtf has Harkins done? Nothing
Honestly at this point maybe I waive Harkins and Toninato is 13th forward and we keep around Ville and Samberg

This pre-season Harkins has:

Been on the ice for 14 scoring chances for the Jets vs only 6 against
Been on the ice for 33 shot attempts for the Jets vs only 16 against
Has the second highest expected goals % for any Jet forward

 

[WolfHouse]

Harkins was a goal scorer that busted his ass to play maurices grinder role… I’ll give him a fair shot with bowness

Its weird to see Barron annointed third line and we are ready to cut harkins… kind of seem like the same player

 

[nabby12]

Night 1 roster:
Connor Scheifele Ehlers
Perfetti Dubois Wheeler
Maenalanen Lowry Appleton
Gagner Gustafsson Lambert
Barron
Harkins/Toninato (both can take a hike as far as I'm concerned)

Morrissey Demelo
Dillon Schmidt
Heinola Pionk
Samberg

Helle
Rittich


Or with the forwards to spread the wealth in the top 9, you could do:
Connor Scheifele Appleton
Ehlers Dubois Lambert
Perfetti Lowry Wheeler
Maenalanen Gustafsson Gagner

 

[voyageur]

Harkins was a goal scorer that busted his ass to play maurices grinder role… I’ll give him a fair shot with bowness

Its weird to see Barron annointed third line and we are ready to cut harkins… kind of seem like the same player

I just don't see what the stats say. Doesn't seem like he creates much. The big factor I think under Bowness/Arniel will be special teams. Gustafsson has been good on the PK. I think Maenalanen has shown something on the PK. Lambert showed something on the PP, that I don't think we saw from Gagner. Harkins on the PP wasn't effective. So you look at where players are going to get minutes, unless Harkins beats out Barron, who is waiver eligible, and gets some top 9 minutes, he's likely to be the lowest minute getting forward on the Jets, and no one can say productive at that. Barron is more physical, and a better shot, I think his defensive game might be more complete than Harkins. He's likely in for both Calgary games, and if he's not up to speed it's easy to demote him. Maenalanen at least did well on Lowry's line, and would probably be the one who slots there, if it isn't Barron.

 

[WolfHouse]

I just don't see what the stats say. Doesn't seem like he creates much. The big factor I think under Bowness/Arniel will be special teams. Gustafsson has been good on the PK. I think Maenalanen has shown something on the PK. Lambert showed something on the PP, that I don't think we saw from Gagner. Harkins on the PP wasn't effective. So you look at where players are going to get minutes, unless Harkins beats out Barron, who is waiver eligible, and gets some top 9 minutes, he's likely to be the lowest minute getting forward on the Jets, and no one can say productive at that. Barron is more physical, and a better shot, I think his defensive game might be more complete than Harkins. He's likely in for both Calgary games, and if he's not up to speed it's easy to demote him. Maenalanen at least did well on Lowry's line, and would probably be the one who slots there, if it isn't Barron.

I’m excited about Barron but he literally has the same stats as harkins… except harkins at least has a full season under his belt

Has maenelanen played against nhlers in three years…?

 

[RustyCat]

I'd go

Perfetti Scheif Ehlers
Connor Dubois Wheeler
Barron Lowry Apples
Saku Gus Gagner

Wtf has Harkins done? Nothing
Honestly at this point maybe I waive Harkins and Toninato is 13th forward and we keep around Ville and Samberg

Harkins was excellent at his forecheck, getting in lanes, pressuring guys, and using his stick to break up plays a couple games ago. He was the best Jet on the ice for that. Although he never popped up on the scoresheet he did everything Bones had asked for and created issues for the other side. Last game he was more of the same. I'd personally like to see more offence but I suspect he is adjusting to the system and making sure he fits.

 

[Jet]

Neither has Stanley.
Heinola hasn't done as much as we might have liked, but I think he has done more than the other 2. Samberg is still waiver exempt, so he could go down. Keep Kovy in the PB and let Stanley and Heinola continue to compete for a spot until one or the other wins. Right now, I'd say Heinola is a bit ahead, but they might want Stan to PK.



I don't think that is wild assed, but Samberg is also waiver exempt.

I think Heinola has shown very well, but he's also shown some of his warts defensively. I do think overall he's a net positive over Stanley.

I thought Samberg was a lock going into this season but I think maybe he's going to have to go down and be the first injury callup and then play his way onto the team.

I could see what you said playing out.