Pre-Game Talk: Training Camp '13 (Starts Sunday 1/13)

[Boom Boom Geoffrion*]

Kreider was thrusted into the middle of a playoff series and he provided playing in the top 6. Now granted his defensive game needs work, a lot of work. But playing in the playoffs, especially those 7 game series and the 6 game series were as real and as tough as it gets. I understand what you are saying about him still being coachable. But he can stay in the top 6 and still be coachable especially with John Tortorella as the coach. Heck he benched him in the capitals series. Kreider will learn and get better defensively under Tortorella. That doesn't mean he has to be on a line with Boyle and Pyatt to do so.

Again I don't view that as a long-time role for Kreider. I'm talking about a couple of dozen games. I expect him to be in our top-6 by the playoffs.

Hagelin's the guy I see as our long-term 3LW. Not Kreider. Hagelins more rounded. He can contribute without showing up on the stat sheet. And I think his offensive numbers were a little, off-base.

 

[RGY]

How are you not convinced on Hagelin? He was on a 48 point pace as a rookie and he plays the kind of style that's effective even if he's in a slump. I'm not going to predict he's a star or anything but he has the tools to produce with other talented players and the work ethic to be a huge huge asset on the forecheck. I'm incredibly relieved that his shoulder isn't an issue and that he's ready to go, because the speed and tenacity he brings to the offense will be huge. He forces teams to make bad plays with his speed

Hagelin completely changed the dynamic of this team last year. He was a turning point. He gave this team the boost it needed and he doesn't get enough recognition for it. I agree, I'm not calling him a star but he is vital to this team and he can make this team go.

Kreider may need to do more convincing but I disagree that people are "awarding" him spots based on potential alone.

 

[Samuel Culper III]

This is a tantrum. Not what I posted. I think your ego is much more hurt than mine

I just don't agree with your speculation. And I view you as part of the crowd that wants to award a player a spot in our line-up without fully proving it. Call me old school, I think players need to earn their roles. You on the other hand want to award it based on potential. Clearly.

No, it's really not. I implore anyone to read the post you quoted and call it a tantrum. Your whole YOU WANNA TALK TO ME ABOUT A MAN CRUSH/THIS WHOLE BOARD IS ORGASMING FOR KREIDER rant was immature garbage, plain and simple. I'm not the only person who pointed it out either. You don't have to agree with my speculation. You also can't bludgeon me with yours. I'm done discussing it with you because over the years, while you've proved to be a huge and knowledgeable Rangers fan you've also proven to be an obnoxiously single minded poster who will berate other fans opinions and I no longer have any interest in engaging in conversation with you. It's all a competition with you; your Rangers knowledge is superior and you will let it be known. I agreed with RGY's post. You told us both just how very wrong and silly we were. You don't need to respond to this. I have no desire to commit anymore energy to arguing with you on a hockey website. I'm sure we'll see all kinds of combinations this season and hopefully we'll all be happy with the way they work out. Enjoy the season.

 

[Leetch3]

Nash-Richards-Callahan
Richards has thrived before having hard-working guys on his line.

Kreider-Stepan-Gaborik
Stepan and Gaborik have chemistry from last year. They are both cerebral players. Kreider adds speed and a forecheck to that line.

Hagelin-Boyle-Pyatt
Hagelin and Boyle have good chemistry from last season. People forget Torts put Hagelin with Boyle for quite a while when he was first called up so that Boyle could cover up for some mistakes Hagelin was making defensively. Hagelin adds some creativity and elusiveness to the (2) Towers on this line. Boyle and Pyatt will drive hard to the net and work hard down low, opening up ice for Hagelin.

Rupp-Halpern-Asham
Hopefully this line can wreak some havoc in the offensive zone. Rupp and Asham have chemistry from playing together in Pittsburgh (2) years ago. Halpern should be able to give this line the puck with his face-off skills.

unless someone else is brought in those would be my lines

 

[Boom Boom Geoffrion*]

No, it's really not. I implore anyone to read the post you quoted and call it a tantrum. Your whole YOU WANNA TALK TO ME ABOUT A MAN CRUSH/THIS WHOLE BOARD IS ORGASMING FOR KREIDER rant was immature garbage, plain and simple. I'm not the only person who pointed it out either. You don't have to agree with my speculation. You also can't bludgeon me with yours. I'm done discussing it with you because over the years, while you've proved to be a huge and knowledgeable Rangers fan you've also proven to be an obnoxiously single minded poster who will berate other fans opinions and I no longer have any interest in engaging in conversation with you. It's all a competition with you; your Rangers knowledge is superior and you will let it be known. I agreed with RGY's post. You told us both just how very wrong and silly we were. You don't need to respond to this. I have no desire to commit anymore energy to arguing with you on a hockey website. I'm sure we'll see all kinds of combinations this season and hopefully we'll all be happy with the way they work out. Enjoy the season.

Is it untrue? Are most of our fans not going ******* over Kreider? How many people have stapled him on our 1st line already?

I do actively disagree with other opinions, and maybe I was harsh with this. But I certainly didn't throw a tantrum

My Ranger knowledge is certainly not superior to all. Not even close. I just feel strongly about certain things. Year after year there are people who are labeling Callahan as a third liner, when the fact is he's produced and outperformed many second-liners in the league. Yet, here we are again. Another year. And another round of line-up proposals with him in our third line. All because we might have better options in our top-6. Or, because his style of play suits a third line very well.

I can't tolerate that type of generalization. Teams have different systems. Coaches use players differently. Callahan's the most dependable forward in our line-up who's also no slouch offensively. He's trending upwards in goals and points. He's one of the best shot blockers and hitters in our league. He's awesome defensively. He's a guy you want on the ice whenever he's caught his breath. He's our leader on top of that.

He has absolutely, positively no business on any third line in the league. When I hear people assume Kreider or Hagelin are better options in our top-6, I'll just say, I'll believe it when I see it.

Enjoy the season.

 

[IBleedNYRBlue]

Nash-Richards-Callahan
Richards has thrived before having hard-working guys on his line.

Kreider-Stepan-Gaborik
Stepan and Gaborik have chemistry from last year. They are both cerebral players. Kreider adds speed and a forecheck to that line.

Hagelin-Boyle-Pyatt
Hagelin and Boyle have good chemistry from last season. People forget Torts put Hagelin with Boyle for quite a while when he was first called up so that Boyle could cover up for some mistakes Hagelin was making defensively. Hagelin adds some creativity and elusiveness to the (2) Towers on this line. Boyle and Pyatt will drive hard to the net and work hard down low, opening up ice for Hagelin.

Rupp-Halpern-Asham
Hopefully this line can wreak some havoc in the offensive zone. Rupp and Asham have chemistry from playing together in Pittsburgh (2) years ago. Halpern should be able to give this line the puck with his face-off skills.

Yup.

Exactly my lines, too. Some people having Nash on the 2nd line not w/ Richards is ridiculous. The whole knock on Nash has been he's never had a star caliber player and top notch playmaker to work with. Now he does, and he MUST be on the line with him.

 

[Fitzy]

People said the same thing about Gaborik...

Lets give it a shot, and whatever gives us the most goals consistently we go with. Deal?

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

I hate the idea of Gaborik and Nash on the same line. Spread out the scoring. Let each player be the dominant player on their respective lines. I don't want Gaborik and Nash worrying about stepping on each other's toes and deferring to the other. Besides, playing them together makes the Rangers a lot easier to defend.

Totally agree.

Put Hags up on the first and let him use his speed and dig out pucks for Richards and Gabby. Nash with Stepan and Cally is a bigger line and it gives Stepan a legit scorer to set up, with Cally crashing the net and such. The lines seems more balanced and it deepens the team. I think it will wind up that way sooner or later.

And like you said it will be alot harder for the opposing defenses to deal with 10 and 61 on different lines.

The PP is a different story, load up the top unit.

 

[Boom Boom Geoffrion*]

People said the same thing about Gaborik...

Lets give it a shot, and whatever gives us the most goals consistently we go with. Deal?

This post needs more offensive material. If it's not infraction worthy, it belongs on the Panthers forum.

Nash is a North/South type of player. I don't think he'll mesh too well with Stepan. I can see him thriving with Richy though. Plus, he kind of looks like Richie but with a little more bodyfat.

 

[Bardof425*]

Apparently it's 100% about pride and your man crush on Callahan. I'm not trying to take a shot at you; I love Callahan. Why do you think my username is MPF24? I wear a Cally jersey to every game. I'm simply saying you're being blinded by your love of the captain. Besides anything else, it's been explained every single time the discussion of whether Callahan is the best fit for the Boyle/Pyatt line that Callahan would still receive MUCH MORE overall ice time than Kreider or Hagelin because he would be a #1 option on every PP and PK and be that guy you throw on the ice down a goal, when you take Kreider off of Nash's line in the last 10 minutes, or when you're defending a lead with the faceoff in your own end and you want Richards, Nash and Callahan, or any number of other possibilities. No one is advocating for Kreider being given a bigger ROLE than Callahan. We're talking about playing players where they make the most sense.

You have Richards, Stepan, Nash and Gaborik all guaranteed spots leaving two spaces for Hagelin, Kreider and Callahan. Of those three, all can play top six but Callahan plays bottom six FAR, FAR better than anyone else. It;s a testament to how good he is. The point though, is that putting Kreider in the bottom six minimalizes everything special about Kreider and just turns him into a serviceable body on the third line. With Callahan that is not so. No one is talking about giving Kreider a bigger role. We're talking about playing Kreider with talented players and Callahan with a shutdown line because BOTH players can succeed in that situation, rather than putting Kreider in a position to fail. Callahan would still be one of, if not the highest forward in TOI in this scenario, he would just get it in different ways, by playing a frequently shifted shutdown role at ES, double shifting wherever Torts wants him, playing in special circumstances like joining the Nash or Gaborik line when down a goal in the third or for defensive situations, heavy PP minutes and top PK duties. That's a much, much larger role than anyone is suggesting for Kreider. It's just distributed differently. All anyone is saying is, Callahan would THRIVE the most on that third line, or rather, his game would suffer the least. We're simply talking about what line combinations will be the most productive, most effective. We're not talking about Callahan's throne and why he deserves 'more' than Kreider to play in the top six. That conversation is 100% about ego.

You both make good points and this is an interesting back and forth. I think Cally is too good a goal scorer to move him to a line centered by Brian Boyle. I also think that it would be a waste to have Kreider there as he is not suited for a checking role (yet) and needs a good distributor to be effective. I would like to see Hags on the third line. He can definitely check; he is not a natural goal scorer and he can create his own chances (he won't need Boyle's help to generate offense).

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Yup.

Exactly my lines, too. Some people having Nash on the 2nd line not w/ Richards is ridiculous. The whole knock on Nash has been he's never had a star caliber player and top notch playmaker to work with. Now he does, and he MUST be on the line with him.

I dont think its ridiculous at all.

The guys averaged 32 goals per season and won a Rocket Trophy without that star caliber center - Stepan would be more than sufficient imo.

Either way you cut it, its either Gaborik or Nash scoring the goals (and Richards isnt shabby either putting the puck in the net) - so why put all of your eggs in one basket??

My Lines

Hagelin - Richards - Gaborik
Nash - Stepan - Callahan
Kreider - Boyle - Rupp (now healthy)
Asham - Halpern - Pyatt

Would love to get a Dominic Moore or similar speedy player for the lower lines to mix and match

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

I tell you, if we somehow could have held onto Dubi - having him on the third line, where he belongs, would've been stellar...

But you gotta give to get

 

[Bardof425*]

I dont think its ridiculous at all.

The guys averaged 32 goals per season and won a Rocket Trophy without that star caliber center - Stepan would be more than sufficient imo.

Either way you cut it, its either Gaborik or Nash scoring the goals (and Richards isnt shabby either putting the puck in the net) - so why put all of your eggs in one basket??

My Lines

Hagelin - Richards - Gaborik
Nash - Stepan - Callahan
Kreider - Boyle - Rupp (now healthy)
Asham - Halpern - Pyatt

Would love to get a Dominic Moore or similar speedy player for the lower lines to mix and match

Kreider with Boyle and Rupp? What role do you expect Chris to play?

 

[IBleedNYRBlue]

People said the same thing about Gaborik...

Lets give it a shot, and whatever gives us the most goals consistently we go with. Deal?

I didn't know you're the coach..

I highly bet Torts plays Nash w/ Richards to start the season.

 

[Boom Boom Geoffrion*]

Kreider with Boyle and Rupp? What role do you expect Chris to play?

A hockey player doing whatever he can to help his team win. That's a role suitable for his first full year until he proves he's more valuable over the other players ahead of the depth chart.

Everybody knows Kreider's not a bottom-6 guy. This is a good role for him for early on though. Let him crawl before he walks. If he proves he's too good for that role, all it takes is a couple of seconds to tweak things, which Torts will obviously do over and over against our wills.

I think Kreider moves up around the 10-15 game mark if he starts on the third line. I think Hagelin's offensive numbers last year are a little, unrealistic. Would love to be proven wrong though.

 

[IBleedNYRBlue]

I dont think its ridiculous at all.

The guys averaged 32 goals per season and won a Rocket Trophy without that star caliber center - Stepan would be more than sufficient imo.

Either way you cut it, its either Gaborik or Nash scoring the goals (and Richards isnt shabby either putting the puck in the net) - so why put all of your eggs in one basket??

My Lines

Hagelin - Richards - Gaborik
Nash - Stepan - Callahan
Kreider - Boyle - Rupp (now healthy)
Asham - Halpern - Pyatt

Would love to get a Dominic Moore or similar speedy player for the lower lines to mix and match

How is a line of Nash-Richards-Cally putting all your eggs in one basket?

 

[Boom Boom Geoffrion*]

I didn't know you're the coach..

I highly bet Torts plays Nash w/ Richards to start the season.

Apparently, you're the coach. And I'm the assistant. Sbob is the GM. And Fitzy is Jim Ramsay.

Who the hell is Sam Rosen? I'm guessing it's Melrose..

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

How is a line of Nash-Richards-Cally putting all your eggs in one basket?

Wow completely misread your quoted post, my bad.

I like those lines too, but i feel that Torts will go with what has worked and thats the Hags-Richards-Gabby line.

I'm not opposed to your lines though.

 

[IBleedNYRBlue]

apparently, you're the coach. And i'm the assistant. Sbob is the gm. And fitzy is jim ramsay.

Who the hell is sam rosen? I'm guessing it's melrose..

I WILL PLAY Nash with Richards!!!!

 

[GAGLine]

Hagelin completely changed the dynamic of this team last year. He was a turning point. He gave this team the boost it needed and he doesn't get enough recognition for it. I agree, I'm not calling him a star but he is vital to this team and he can make this team go.

Agreed. A big reason why I didn't want to trade him in the Nash deal. We need more guys who can put the defense back on their heels, not less.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Apparently, you're the coach. And I'm the assistant. Sbob is the GM. And Fitzy is Jim Ramsay.

Who the hell is Sam Rosen? I'm guessing it's Melrose..

I had to fumigate the office after all that cigar smoke.

 

[beastly115]

Nash-Richards-Callahan
Richards has thrived before having hard-working guys on his line.

Kreider-Stepan-Gaborik
Stepan and Gaborik have chemistry from last year. They are both cerebral players. Kreider adds speed and a forecheck to that line.

Hagelin-Boyle-Pyatt
Hagelin and Boyle have good chemistry from last season. People forget Torts put Hagelin with Boyle for quite a while when he was first called up so that Boyle could cover up for some mistakes Hagelin was making defensively. Hagelin adds some creativity and elusiveness to the (2) Towers on this line. Boyle and Pyatt will drive hard to the net and work hard down low, opening up ice for Hagelin.

Rupp-Halpern-Asham
Hopefully this line can wreak some havoc in the offensive zone. Rupp and Asham have chemistry from playing together in Pittsburgh (2) years ago. Halpern should be able to give this line the puck with his face-off skills.

I like these lines. My only question mark is Hagelin on line 3. He's not much of a grinder and he's not particularly great in the defensive end. But honestly, there's really no one else on the roster for that spot while keeping the other 3 lines as they are, so he kind of gets put there by default.

 

[The Gloaming]

I like these lines. My only question mark is Hagelin on line 3. He's not much of a grinder and he's not particularly great in the defensive end. But honestly, there's really no one else on the roster for that spot while keeping the other 3 lines as they are, so he kind of gets put there by default.

A lot of people are forgetting that he and Mitchell played there will Boyle when they were called up together. Hagelin obviously flourished there, and as a result, earned first line minutes. He's the kind of player that wouldn't look out of place on any line.

 

[Punxrocknyc19*]

Paul Mara??

I wonder if NYR might considering giving him a tryout.. he knows the system and he would be a upgrade over Bickel Gilroy Eminger...Rangers usually give a tryout to a player from the past and or a vet...

 

[nyr2k2]

He didn't play anywhere last year and is in the ECHL at the moment. He couldn't keep up two years ago, and I can't imagine his mobility has improved.