Pre-Game Talk: Training Camp '13 (Starts Sunday 1/13)

[Vitto79]

Brooks saying Hrvik suffered a concussion last game, poor kid misses out on camp.

So they are going to need a 5th line in camp. Haley, Kolarik and an invited vet?

 

[Fitzy]

Girardi, Staal, all fine but I think the greater point is there is little point in using Redden. He is two years removed from the borderline #4 play he gave us in 09-10.

 

[nyr2k2]

Sucks for Hrivik. Hopefully it's not serious.

Whale will need some reinforcements. No Kreider and no Hrivik is a big blow. There's not even any good options in Greenville for them to call upon.

 

[RGY]

Sucks for Hrivik. Hopefully it's not serious.

Whale will need some reinforcements. No Kreider and no Hrivik is a big blow. There's not even any good options in Greenville for them to call upon.

Sather is going to have to sign a vet or two for the AHL.

 

[RGY]

Steve Zipay ‏@stevezipay
Way early, but haha,line rushes: Nash-Richards-Gabby; Hagelin-Step-Cally; Kreider-Boyle-Pyatt, Asham-Halpern-Rupp. Start online coaching...

 

[Boom Boom Geoffrion*]

Steve Zipay ‏@stevezipay
Way early, but haha,line rushes: Nash-Richards-Gabby; Hagelin-Step-Cally; Kreider-Boyle-Pyatt, Asham-Halpern-Rupp. Start online coaching...

Switch Rupp/Asham and that's the exact line-up I had.

I r vurry speshal.

 

[Fitzy]

I think we have a lot of natural LW'ers play RW and RWers playing LW for the sake of making the lines look paper pretty.

But, whatever works.

 

[RGY]

Switch Rupp/Asham and that's the exact line-up I had.

I r vurry speshal.

I don't like those lines. Don't like our 3 best players on one line. Don't like Kreider on a checking type unit. Don't think Cally should be in the top 6 because even though he is more than capable, his play is better suited for the 3rd line.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

Another Pyatt hit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEfVqN4WaeA

 

[I Am Chariot]

If you rank the NYR defensemen...

1. McDonagh
2. Girardi
3. Staal

large gap

4. Del Zotto
5. Stralman

large gap

6-8 Eminger, Gilroy, Bickel.

I'd say Redden is better than Bickel. Probably better than Gilroy. But I don't think that he is better than Eminger at this point and if you'd ask NYR management if they'd risk a long term injury negating a buyout for a borderline upgrade at 6th-7th D I think they'd say that was an unnecessary risk.

That's what I'd have to believe, this guy was an all star talent and he's not that old. I would imagine he would be highly motivated if given another shot to get into the NHL, PROVE HIMSELF.

 

[Samuel Culper III]

Steve Zipay ‏@stevezipay
Way early, but haha,line rushes: Nash-Richards-Gabby; Hagelin-Step-Cally; Kreider-Boyle-Pyatt, Asham-Halpern-Rupp. Start online coaching...

Oh Zipay.. we started the online coaching days ago.

 

[Boom Boom Geoffrion*]

I don't like those lines. Don't like our 3 best players on one line. Don't like Kreider on a checking type unit. Don't think Cally should be in the top 6 because even though he is more than capable, his play is better suited for the 3rd line.

You want Kreider playing in our top-6 but not Callahan. I can't agree with this at all.

In my opinion, Callahan is our best all-around forward. You break down his production, and all the little things he does, and he's someone that you can put on the ice against anyone, in any situation. You can't say that about the rest of our forwards. Richards has never been great defensively. Gaborik and Nash aren't known for their defensive play.

I don't look at it as Player A is best suited on this type of line. I look at it as, this player is our best option compared to the rest of our forwards. I don't see a better all-around RW on our team that can play in any situation.

Callahan is too good to play on the third line. He's too valuable to be used primarily as a defensive specialist, or an energy guy.

Years later, our captain is still being underrated.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Steve Zipay ‏@stevezipay
Way early, but haha,line rushes: Nash-Richards-Gabby; Hagelin-Step-Cally; Kreider-Boyle-Pyatt, Asham-Halpern-Rupp. Start online coaching...

That looks awful...top heavy 1st line....weak 2nd line...and Kreider without a playmaker. If the top line gets shut down, where's the scoring?

 

[RGY]

You want Kreider playing in our top-6 but not Callahan. I can't agree with this at all.

In my opinion, Callahan is our best all-around forward. You break down his production, and all the little things he does, and he's someone that you can put on the ice against anyone, in any situation. You can't say that about the rest of our forwards. Richards has never been great defensively. Gaborik and Nash aren't known for their defensive play.

I don't look at it as Player A is best suited on this type of line. I look at it as, this player is our best option compared to the rest of our forwards. I don't see a better all-around RW on our team that can play in any situation.

Callahan is too good to play on the third line. He's too valuable to be used primarily as a defensive specialist, or an energy guy.

Years later, our captain is still being underrated.

Underrated? What am I underrating? You're trying to win games, win a stanley cup. Put the pride aside. No one is saying he is not a great all around player or even that he is not our best all around player. Your top two lines are scoring lines. Kreider is a scoring forward. Why are we putting him on a line with less talent? Why are we not putting him in the top 6 where they will get him the puck more and he will have more time and space?

If callahan is all that you say he is then he would be perfect for the 3rd line. He fits the mold of that line, a grind it out type of line. Stepan and Hagelin can provide enough two way hockey to compensate for callahan being moved down a line. There are roles to fill on this team. Callahan is our captain because he is a team player. Torts tends to roll 3 lines more than 4 lines as the game goes on. He isn't going to lose a significant amount of ice time. He will still get PK time and PP time with Richards on the point. There is no such thing as "being too good" for anything when you are trying to win a cup.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I mean does Torts even have input on this? Or is it organized by Richards, in which case I assume he'd have structured the lines this way to be a good teammate / keep egos in check.

 

[Boom Boom Geoffrion*]

That looks awful...top heavy 1st line....weak 2nd line...and Kreider without a playmaker. If the top line gets shut down, where's the scoring?

Hagelin-Stepan-Callahan is a weak second line? I see three 20 goal scorers who can play in all three zones, are competent defensively. I see a solid second line here.

You can flip Hagelin and Nash if you want more balance.

As much as I want Kreider with a legit playmaker, I think the team would have more success with Nash and Hagelin as our top-LW'ers, and Gaborik-Callahan as our top-RW'ers.

Kreider on our third line isn't ideal, but Boyle and Pyatt aren't incapable of producing offensively. We're not talking about ryan holleg, colton orr, jed ortmeyer, and blair betts here.

 

[nyr2k2]

I mean does Torts even have input on this? Or is it organized by Richards, in which case I assume he'd have structured the lines this way to be a good teammate / keep egos in check.

I think it's safe to assume that Torts has input. I would imagine that most teams have been skirting the "no team-to-player contact" rule for at least the past week or two. The union isn't going to grieve it, so why not? Torts probably talks to at least some of the guys fairly regularly by now.

 

[McSauer]

Kreider on our third line isn't ideal, but Boyle and Pyatt aren't incapable of producing offensively. We're not talking about ryan holleg, colton orr, jed ortmeyer, and blair betts here.

Boyle is incapable except for about one week every season...Kreider is WASTED playing with Boyle

 

[I Am Chariot]

That looks awful...top heavy 1st line....weak 2nd line...and Kreider without a playmaker. If the top line gets shut down, where's the scoring?

Seems a waste to put Krieders speed with Brian Boyle. I get the balance of size and skill in the O zone but it negates the fast breakout possibilities. Boyle isnt the freshest passer either. I like the guy and I think he has a role but Krieder is likely one of the fastest players in the NHL. He needs some speed to role with him or a dynamic passer to hit him on the move consistently.

 

[nyr2k2]

You want Kreider playing in our top-6 but not Callahan. I can't agree with this at all.

In my opinion, Callahan is our best all-around forward. You break down his production, and all the little things he does, and he's someone that you can put on the ice against anyone, in any situation. You can't say that about the rest of our forwards. Richards has never been great defensively. Gaborik and Nash aren't known for their defensive play.

I don't look at it as Player A is best suited on this type of line. I look at it as, this player is our best option compared to the rest of our forwards. I don't see a better all-around RW on our team that can play in any situation.

Callahan is too good to play on the third line. He's too valuable to be used primarily as a defensive specialist, or an energy guy.

Years later, our captain is still being underrated.

You might turn Kreider into a 20-goal scorer by playing him with Callahan and Stepan. On top of that, Hagelin would likely coax more offense out of Boyle and Pyatt than would Kreider, as Hagelin is pretty slick and can dish the puck well.

 

[Samuel Culper III]

Underrated? What am I underrating? You're trying to win games, win a stanley cup. Put the pride aside. No one is saying he is not a great all around player or even that he is not our best all around player. Your top two lines are scoring lines. Kreider is a scoring forward. Why are we putting him on a line with less talent? Why are we not putting him in the top 6 where they will get him the puck more and he will have more time and space?

If callahan is all that you say he is then he would be perfect for the 3rd line. He fits the mold of that line, a grind it out type of line. Stepan and Hagelin can provide enough two way hockey to compensate for callahan being moved down a line. There are roles to fill on this team. Callahan is our captain because he is a team player. Torts tends to roll 3 lines more than 4 lines as the game goes on. He isn't going to lose a significant amount of ice time. He will still get PK time and PP time with Richards on the point. There is no such thing as "being too good" for anything when you are trying to win a cup.

I somewhat agree with this. I understand people who want Callahan in the top-six no matter what because he's a great player and our beloved, home grown, fan favorite captain, but if we're chasing the Cup everyone on the team should be put to the best use possible. A Pyatt, Boyle, Callahan line will get plenty of ice time, chip in some goals, forecheck like demons and be a great shutdown line (Torts loves Boyle and Cally, how could this line not get good minutes). Callahan playing big PP/PK minutes keeps him among the team leaders in ice time, but playing him with Boyle and Pyatt opens up a space for Kreider to play in a spot where he might be more useful and productive. Callahan's game, in my opinion, will suffer a lot less by playing with less skilled linemates than Kreider's; Kreider, IMO, needs to play with a playmaker and another threat so that he isn't honed in on too much and has someone skilled to feed him. If he plays on a line with Nash or Gaborik, the defense undoubtedly keys in on the established superstar, leaving either Stepan or Richards to set up Kreider, which is as good as it gets. He could be a good forechecker with Boyle and Pyatt, but little else, IMO. Point being, it's not about "the best players play on the top lines" but "which combinations make the most sense". In my opinion, if you're chasing a cup Kreider plays in the top six and Callahan plays an ELITE shutdown role at even strength while still scoring 10+ PP goals and being our main PKer and extra attacker that Torts throws on the ice in all kinds of situations.

 

[Trxjw]

Could just be an attempt to gauge who clicks better with Richards and if Gabby and Nash can co-exist on the same line.

 

[I Am Chariot]

Could just be an attempt to gauge who clicks better with Richards and if Gabby and Nash can co-exist on the same line.

Considering they are most likely the line at MSG center ice for the opening faceoff, they should at least be familiar.

Ultimately it would be best to have Nash and Gabby on different lines. The whole idea is to make it harder to defend vs the Rangers and having 2 wicked lines is better than 1.

Nash is use to carrying a whole franchise I think he can manage carrying his own line in NY

 

[RGY]

Seems a waste to put Krieders speed with Brian Boyle. I get the balance of size and skill in the O zone but it negates the fast breakout possibilities. Boyle isnt the freshest passer either. I like the guy and I think he has a role but Krieder is likely one of the fastest players in the NHL. He needs some speed to role with him or a dynamic passer to hit him on the move consistently.

This. This is the issue with him being on the 3rd line. Brian Boyle is and has never been a good passer/playmaker. He just isn't, that isn't his game. He is a dump and chase, cycle, drive to the net, stand in front of the net type of player. He is not a puck possession player. Kreider needs a puck possession player. I'm not saying he has to be on the 1st line, but he needs to be playing with Stepan.

Callahan is a dump and chase, cycle, drive to the net, stand in front of the net type of player. Catch my drift? You put players with other players that fit their game. Stop with this ego BS about who has to play where because they are this.

 

[RGY]

I somewhat agree with this. I understand people who want Callahan in the top-six no matter what because he's a great player and our beloved, home grown, fan favorite captain, but if we're chasing the Cup everyone on the team should be put to the best use possible. A Pyatt, Boyle, Callahan line will get plenty of ice time, chip in some goals, forecheck like demons and be a great shutdown line (Torts loves Boyle and Cally, how could this line not get good minutes). Callahan playing big PP/PK minutes keeps him among the team leaders in ice time, but playing him with Boyle and Pyatt opens up a space for Kreider to play in a spot where he might be more useful and productive. Callahan's game, in my opinion, will suffer a lot less by playing with less skilled linemates than Kreider's; Kreider, IMO, needs to play with a playmaker and another threat so that he isn't honed in on too much and has someone skilled to feed him. If he plays on a line with Nash or Gaborik, the defense undoubtedly keys in on the established superstar, leaving either Stepan or Richards to set up Kreider, which is as good as it gets. He could be a good forechecker with Boyle and Pyatt, but little else, IMO. Point being, it's not about "the best players play on the top lines" but "which combinations make the most sense". In my opinion, if you're chasing a cup Kreider plays in the top six and Callahan plays an ELITE shutdown role at even strength while still scoring 10+ PP goals and being our main PKer and extra attacker that Torts throws on the ice in all kinds of situations.

Sounds to me like you completely agree, and pretty on point with what I am getting at.