Pre-Game Talk: Training Camp '13 (Starts Sunday 1/13)

[Ghost of jas]

Hagelin-Stepan-Callahan is a weak second line? I see three 20 goal scorers who can play in all three zones, are competent defensively. I see a solid second line here.

You can flip Hagelin and Nash if you want more balance.

As much as I want Kreider with a legit playmaker, I think the team would have more success with Nash and Hagelin as our top-LW'ers, and Gaborik-Callahan as our top-RW'ers.

Kreider on our third line isn't ideal, but Boyle and Pyatt aren't incapable of producing offensively. We're not talking about ryan holleg, colton orr, jed ortmeyer, and blair betts here.

No, I see two 20 goal scoters, who have never shown any chemistry together, and a 2nd year player who put up points while playing with the two best offensive players on the team. I'm not convinced Hagelin is a 20 goal scorer, and I believe he certainly wouldn't be one on that line.

 

[Boom Boom Geoffrion*]

Underrated? What am I underrating?

You're underrating Callahan.

You're trying to win games, win a stanley cup. Put the pride aside. No one is saying he is not a great all around player or even that he is not our best all around player.

It's not an issue about pride. At all. If he's our best, or one of our best forwards, there's no reason to play him less than players that are going to have less of an impact than him.

Your top two lines are scoring lines. Kreider is a scoring forward. Why are we putting him on a line with less talent? Why are we not putting him in the top 6 where they will get him the puck more and he will have more time and space?

Kreider should earn that role. Has he earned it? And who's to say our top-2 lines are our only scoring lines? I did say the third-line wasn't ideal for Kreider long-term. I mentioned that I see Hagelin as our long-term 3LW. For the start of the year, I think the third line is fine for someone like CK though. Regardless of how he played last post-season.

You play your best players as much as possible, assuming the mesh with their line-mates. Neither Hagelin, nor Kreider should be playing a bigger role than Callahan. Neither has proven to be more effective yet.

If callahan is all that you say he is then he would be perfect for the 3rd line. He fits the mold of that line, a grind it out type of line. Stepan and Hagelin can provide enough two way hockey to compensate for callahan being moved down a line. There are roles to fill on this team. Callahan is our captain because he is a team player. Torts tends to roll 3 lines more than 4 lines as the game goes on. He isn't going to lose a significant amount of ice time. He will still get PK time and PP time with Richards on the point. There is no such thing as "being too good" for anything when you are trying to win a cup.

Who's to say our top-6 can't use someone who's great along the boards like Callahan? Who's going to do the dirty work? Who's going to go head first into the boards to fetch a puck? Who's going to cover for our pinching dmen? You're going to trust Kreider or Hagelin to provide more than Callahan? There's no way.

As the games go on, Torts tends to roll 2 lines more than 3. Especially when we're down. I want Callahan on the ice in those situations. Hell, I want Callahan there when we're up too.

You cannot even begin to compare the three players all-around game. Callahan blows both Kreider and Hagelin away.

The mentality of playing Kreider with talented players is not something I disagree with. I just don't see the problem with starting him off with Boyle and Pyatt, two players who are good for double-digit goals and can play a high-tempo game responsibly, while providing some offense.

In my world, you give the ice-time to the player that proves he's the best fit. In my book, that's Callahan until someone dethrones him. Wake me up when that happens, please. I beg you.

 

[NYR Viper]

Sucks to hear about Hrivik's injury. I hope it isn't serious........

Sather and Schoenfeld better sign some vets to help out down there if possible.....

 

[Boom Boom Geoffrion*]

No, I see two 20 goal scoters, who have never shown any chemistry together, and a 2nd year player who put up points while playing with the two best offensive players on the team. I'm not convinced Hagelin is a 20 goal scorer, and I believe he certainly wouldn't be one on that line.

I see a two-way line that will be buzzing all over the ice. Callahan and Hagelin are both tenacious forecheckers that give their opponents very little time and room.

And I could care less about the lack of chemistry last year. This is a different season. It's another year that the guys are playing together. Chemistry doesn't develop over night.

 

[RGY]

You're underrating Callahan.




It's not an issue about pride. At all. If he's our best, or one of our best forwards, there's no reason to play him less than players that are going to have less of an impact than him.



Kreider should earn that role. Has he earned it? And who's to say our top-2 lines are our only scoring lines? I did say the third-line wasn't ideal for Kreider long-term. I mentioned that I see Hagelin as our long-term 3LW. For the start of the year, I think the third line is fine for someone like CK though. Regardless of how he played last post-season.

You play your best players as much as possible, assuming the mesh with their line-mates. Neither Hagelin, nor Kreider should be playing a bigger role than Callahan. Neither has proven to be more effective yet.



Who's to say our top-6 can't use someone who's great along the boards like Callahan? Who's going to do the dirty work? Who's going to go head first into the boards to fetch a puck? Who's going to cover for our pinching dmen? You're going to trust Kreider or Hagelin to provide more than Callahan? There's no way.

As the games go on, Torts tends to roll 2 lines more than 3. Especially when we're down. I want Callahan on the ice in those situations. Hell, I want Callahan there when we're up too.

You cannot even begin to compare the three players all-around game. Callahan blows both Kreider and Hagelin away.

The mentality of playing Kreider with talented players is not something I disagree with. I just don't see the problem with starting him off with Boyle and Pyatt, two players who are good for double-digit goals and can play a high-tempo game responsibly, while providing some offense.

In my world, you give the ice-time to the player that proves he's the best fit. In my book, that's Callahan until someone dethrones him. Wake me up when that happens, please. I beg you.

Really? Are you overrating callahan? Because it sounds like you are. You say its not about pride or aka egos, but it sure sounds that way. What is there to "earn"? Did you not watch the playoffs last year? Or how about the entire season of watching hagelin? Those two guys can't "fetch" the puck as well as callahan? They may not be as strong as callahan but their speed sure as hell makes up for that in retrieving pucks. And sure Kreider's sample size is small but he was playing with better players during those playoffs, top 6 players. He flourished.

Why are we demoting him to lesser talent? You're being overly generous stating Boyle and Pyatt are good for double digit goals. Boyle has struggled throughout his career to establish the offensive side of his game. And in a 48 game shortened season? This guy will be lucky if he puts up 3-4 goals if he plays like he did last year. Pyatt's ceiling is 10 in a shortened season. And I love those two guys. I love their game. But Kreider's game is not suited for that line. I don't care how much more experience callahan has, or that he wears the "C"; you do what is best for the team. Callahan is better suited for that line. It is not a "lesser" role, it is the correct role. It is the role that gives Torts and shut down checking line against opposing team's best.

And if you think a line of Pyatt-Boyle-Callahan would get less minutes then you really haven't been paying attention to Torts the past couple years.

 

[Boom Boom Geoffrion*]

Really? Are you overrating callahan? Because it sounds like you are. You say its not about pride or aka egos, but it sure sounds that way. What is there to "earn"? Did you not watch the playoffs last year? Or how about the entire season of watching hagelin? Those two guys can't "fetch" the puck as well as callahan? They may not be as strong as callahan but their speed sure as hell makes up for that in retrieving pucks. And sure Kreider's sample size is small but he was playing with better players during those playoffs, top 6 players. He flourished.

Why are we demoting him to lesser talent? You're being overly generous stating Boyle and Pyatt are good for double digit goals. Boyle has struggled throughout his career to establish the offensive side of his game. And in a 48 game shortened season? This guy will be lucky if he puts up 3-4 goals if he plays like he did last year. Pyatt's ceiling is 10 in a shortened season. And I love those two guys. I love their game. But Kreider's game is not suited for that line. I don't care how much more experience callahan has, or that he wears the "C"; you do what is best for the team. Callahan is better suited for that line. It is not a "lesser" role, it is the correct role. It is the role that gives Torts and shut down checking line against opposing team's best.

And if you think a line of Pyatt-Boyle-Callahan would get less minutes then you really haven't been paying attention to Torts the past couple years.

48 game season has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with anything. I don't know why you're even mentioning it.

Pyatt-Boyle-Callahan would get less minutes than our top-2, regardless of what you feel. Boyle's tired after 4 strides. Pyatt has never played for Torts.

The gaming nerds who classify Callahan as a grinder want to see Callahan in that type of role because they learned in a video game that's where those types of players belong. The real game is much different though.

Everyone is so caught up in goals, goals, goals, that they spend time trying to think of the best offensive lines they can imagine. They are all fools, in my opinion. Fools that don't understand jack **** about the dynamics of the game. Preventing scoring opportunities is just as important as creating them. Some of us fail to realize that this club outproduced most teams in the league offensively. And to boot, we acquired another star offensive player.

Kreider's not a workhorse that's going to stir things up in the neutral zone like Callahan. He's not going to win the 1-on-1 battles like Callahan. He's not going to prevent odd-man rushes by being keen to the flow of the game like Callahan. And I bet you, he won't outproduce Callahan next year either.

Underrate Callahan? I think you absolutely do. I think anyone here who really believes that both Hagelin and Kreider are better options in our top-6 are focusing on all the wrong things.

 

[RGY]

Some tweets from zipay regarding the team:

Steve Zipay ‏@stevezipay
Maybe during season RT @JCSEdTech: @stevezipay Any chance we get to see JT Miller in the mix at camp or this season?

Steve Zipay ‏@stevezipay
Ovah RT @***************: @stevezipay So how fast before Torts gets pissed off at a media member during a post-game interview? O/U 5 Games

Steve Zipay ‏@stevezipay
Pretty much for last two days RT @RobZ24: @stevezipay Steve, was the full team at the informal skate?

Steve Zipay ‏@stevezipay
Eminger-Bickel? RT @AnthonyLong65: @stevezipay If MDZ holds out, what's the third pairing on D?

Torts, Slats, Schoenfeld watching from skybox RT @Pauliemacz: @stevezipay I know tortz isn't there but do you think he relayed the lines...

Steve Zipay ‏@stevezipay
Yeas, NYU coach Cosentino again RT @Reardon28: @stevezipay NYU coach running practice? Or Richards still?

 

[Samuel Culper III]

You're underrating Callahan.




It's not an issue about pride. At all. If he's our best, or one of our best forwards, there's no reason to play him less than players that are going to have less of an impact than him.



Kreider should earn that role. Has he earned it? And who's to say our top-2 lines are our only scoring lines? I did say the third-line wasn't ideal for Kreider long-term. I mentioned that I see Hagelin as our long-term 3LW. For the start of the year, I think the third line is fine for someone like CK though. Regardless of how he played last post-season.

You play your best players as much as possible, assuming the mesh with their line-mates. Neither Hagelin, nor Kreider should be playing a bigger role than Callahan. Neither has proven to be more effective yet.



Who's to say our top-6 can't use someone who's great along the boards like Callahan? Who's going to do the dirty work? Who's going to go head first into the boards to fetch a puck? Who's going to cover for our pinching dmen? You're going to trust Kreider or Hagelin to provide more than Callahan? There's no way.

As the games go on, Torts tends to roll 2 lines more than 3. Especially when we're down. I want Callahan on the ice in those situations. Hell, I want Callahan there when we're up too.

You cannot even begin to compare the three players all-around game. Callahan blows both Kreider and Hagelin away.

The mentality of playing Kreider with talented players is not something I disagree with. I just don't see the problem with starting him off with Boyle and Pyatt, two players who are good for double-digit goals and can play a high-tempo game responsibly, while providing some offense.

In my world, you give the ice-time to the player that proves he's the best fit. In my book, that's Callahan until someone dethrones him. Wake me up when that happens, please. I beg you.

Apparently it's 100% about pride and your man crush on Callahan. I'm not trying to take a shot at you; I love Callahan. Why do you think my username is MPF24? I wear a Cally jersey to every game. I'm simply saying you're being blinded by your love of the captain. Besides anything else, it's been explained every single time the discussion of whether Callahan is the best fit for the Boyle/Pyatt line that Callahan would still receive MUCH MORE overall ice time than Kreider or Hagelin because he would be a #1 option on every PP and PK and be that guy you throw on the ice down a goal, when you take Kreider off of Nash's line in the last 10 minutes, or when you're defending a lead with the faceoff in your own end and you want Richards, Nash and Callahan, or any number of other possibilities. No one is advocating for Kreider being given a bigger ROLE than Callahan. We're talking about playing players where they make the most sense.

You have Richards, Stepan, Nash and Gaborik all guaranteed spots leaving two spaces for Hagelin, Kreider and Callahan. Of those three, all can play top six but Callahan plays bottom six FAR, FAR better than anyone else. It;s a testament to how good he is. The point though, is that putting Kreider in the bottom six minimalizes everything special about Kreider and just turns him into a serviceable body on the third line. With Callahan that is not so. No one is talking about giving Kreider a bigger role. We're talking about playing Kreider with talented players and Callahan with a shutdown line because BOTH players can succeed in that situation, rather than putting Kreider in a position to fail. Callahan would still be one of, if not the highest forward in TOI in this scenario, he would just get it in different ways, by playing a frequently shifted shutdown role at ES, double shifting wherever Torts wants him, playing in special circumstances like joining the Nash or Gaborik line when down a goal in the third or for defensive situations, heavy PP minutes and top PK duties. That's a much, much larger role than anyone is suggesting for Kreider. It's just distributed differently. All anyone is saying is, Callahan would THRIVE the most on that third line, or rather, his game would suffer the least. We're simply talking about what line combinations will be the most productive, most effective. We're not talking about Callahan's throne and why he deserves 'more' than Kreider to play in the top six. That conversation is 100% about ego.

 

[NYR Viper]

Nash-Richards-Callahan
Richards has thrived before having hard-working guys on his line.

Kreider-Stepan-Gaborik
Stepan and Gaborik have chemistry from last year. They are both cerebral players. Kreider adds speed and a forecheck to that line.

Hagelin-Boyle-Pyatt
Hagelin and Boyle have good chemistry from last season. People forget Torts put Hagelin with Boyle for quite a while when he was first called up so that Boyle could cover up for some mistakes Hagelin was making defensively. Hagelin adds some creativity and elusiveness to the (2) Towers on this line. Boyle and Pyatt will drive hard to the net and work hard down low, opening up ice for Hagelin.

Rupp-Halpern-Asham
Hopefully this line can wreak some havoc in the offensive zone. Rupp and Asham have chemistry from playing together in Pittsburgh (2) years ago. Halpern should be able to give this line the puck with his face-off skills.

 

[RGY]

48 game season has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with anything. I don't know why you're even mentioning it.

Pyatt-Boyle-Callahan would get less minutes than our top-2, regardless of what you feel. Boyle's tired after 4 strides. Pyatt has never played for Torts.

The gaming nerds who classify Callahan as a grinder want to see Callahan in that type of role because they learned in a video game that's where those types of players belong. The real game is much different though.

Everyone is so caught up in goals, goals, goals, that they spend time trying to think of the best offensive lines they can imagine. They are all fools, in my opinion. Fools that don't understand jack **** about the dynamics of the game. Preventing scoring opportunities is just as important as creating them. Some of us fail to realize that this club outproduced most teams in the league offensively. And to boot, we acquired another star offensive player.

Kreider's not a workhorse that's going to stir things up in the neutral zone like Callahan. He's not going to win the 1-on-1 battles like Callahan. He's not going to prevent odd-man rushes by being keen to the flow of the game like Callahan. And I bet you, he won't outproduce Callahan next year either.

Underrate Callahan? I think you absolutely do. I think anyone here who really believes that both Hagelin and Kreider are better options in our top-6 are focusing on all the wrong things.

LOL I am no gaming nerd. I played the game growing up. I understand the game. Call it what you want but that grind it out style of play is exactly how Callahan plays. It is how Dubinsky played. It is how Boyle and Pyatt play. And I am far from being caught up in goals, however, I am caught up in placing players in spots where they can succeed and they can help the team succeed; getting the best and most use out of said player. Putting Kreider on the 3rd line does not do that. Kreider is not adaptable. Callahan is, because he is a great hockey player. And that is the difference. Sometimes you have to cater to certain players, know your strengths and weaknesses. Your strength is that callahan could play on any line given his ability and still provide whether it's on the scoresheet or just his on ice game. Kreider is not adaptable and will not be as good with certain players, that is the bottom line. You can argue it all you want.

And I still strongly disagree that the top 2 lines will have a significantly more amount of ice time than the 3rd line, especially in a shortened season and especially when callahan and boyle are on that 3rd line.

Also, I'm not quite sure how a 48 game season has nothing to do with anything. Don't mention how Pyatt and Boyle are cable of putting up double digit goals then if the 48 games has nothing to do with anything, because that statistical opinion is irrelevant as well then.

 

[RGY]

Apparently it's 100% about pride and your man crush on Callahan. I'm not trying to take a shot at you; I love Callahan. Why do you think my username is MPF24? I wear a Cally jersey to every game. I'm simply saying you're being blinded by your love of the captain. Besides anything else, it's been explained every single time the discussion of whether Callahan is the best fit for the Boyle/Pyatt line that Callahan would still receive MUCH MORE overall ice time than Kreider or Hagelin because he would be a #1 option on every PP and PK and be that guy you throw on the ice down a goal, when you take Kreider off of Nash's line in the last 10 minutes, or when you're defending a lead with the faceoff in your own end and you want Richards, Nash and Callahan, or any number of other possibilities. No one is advocating for Kreider being given a bigger ROLE than Callahan. We're talking about playing players where they make the most sense.

You have Richards, Stepan, Nash and Gaborik all guaranteed spots leaving two spaces for Hagelin, Kreider and Callahan. Of those three, all can play top six but Callahan plays bottom six FAR, FAR better than anyone else. It;s a testament to how good he is. The point though, is that putting Kreider in the bottom six minimalizes everything special about Kreider and just turns him into a serviceable body on the third line. With Callahan that is not so. No one is talking about giving Kreider a bigger role. We're talking about playing Kreider with talented players and Callahan with a shutdown line because BOTH players can succeed in that situation, rather than putting Kreider in a position to fail. Callahan would still be one of, if not the highest forward in TOI in this scenario, he would just get it in different ways, by playing a frequently shifted shutdown role at ES, double shifting wherever Torts wants him, playing in special circumstances like joining the Nash or Gaborik line when down a goal in the third or for defensive situations, heavy PP minutes and top PK duties. That's a much, much larger role than anyone is suggesting for Kreider. It's just distributed differently. All anyone is saying is, Callahan would THRIVE the most on that third line, or rather, his game would suffer the least. We're simply talking about what line combinations will be the most productive, most effective. We're not talking about Callahan's throne and why he deserves 'more' than Kreider to play in the top six. That conversation is 100% about ego.

Great post, spot on. You explained it a lot better than I did, and was exactly what I was getting at. Especially that entire 2nd paragraph

 

[nyr2k2]

Nash-Richards-Callahan
Richards has thrived before having hard-working guys on his line.

Kreider-Stepan-Gaborik
Stepan and Gaborik have chemistry from last year. They are both cerebral players. Kreider adds speed and a forecheck to that line.

Hagelin-Boyle-Pyatt
Hagelin and Boyle have good chemistry from last season. People forget Torts put Hagelin with Boyle for quite a while when he was first called up so that Boyle could cover up for some mistakes Hagelin was making defensively. Hagelin adds some creativity and elusiveness to the (2) Towers on this line. Boyle and Pyatt will drive hard to the net and work hard down low, opening up ice for Hagelin.

Rupp-Halpern-Asham
Hopefully this line can wreak some havoc in the offensive zone. Rupp and Asham have chemistry from playing together in Pittsburgh (2) years ago. Halpern should be able to give this line the puck with his face-off skills.

Those are my lines exactly, and for largely the same reasons.

 

[Boom Boom Geoffrion*]

Apparently it's 100% about pride and your man crush on Callahan. Besides anything else, it's been explained every single time the discussion of whether Callahan is the best fit for the Boyle/Pyatt line that Callahan would still receive MUCH MORE overall ice time than Kreider or Hagelin because he would be a #1 option on every PP and PK and be that guy you throw on the ice down a goal, when you take Kreider off of Nash's line in the last 10 minutes, or when you're defending a lead with the faceoff in your own end and you want Richards, Nash and Callahan, or any number of other possibilities. No one is advocating for Kreider being given a bigger ROLE than Callahan. We're talking about playing players where they make the most sense.

You have Richards, Stepan, Nash and Gaborik all guaranteed spots leaving two spaces for Hagelin, Kreider and Callahan. Of those three, all can play top six but Callahan plays bottom six FAR, FAR better than anyone else. It;s a testament to how good he is. The point though, is that putting Kreider in the bottom six minimalizes everything special about Kreider and just turns him into a serviceable body on the third line. With Callahan that is not so. No one is talking about giving Kreider a bigger role. We're talking about playing Kreider with talented players and Callahan with a shutdown line because BOTH players can succeed in that situation, rather than putting Kreider in a position to fail. Callahan would still be one of, if not the highest forward in TOI in this scenario, he would just get it in different ways, by playing a frequently shifted shutdown role at ES, double shifting wherever Torts wants him, playing in special circumstances like joining the Nash or Gaborik line when down a goal in the third or for defensive situations, heavy PP minutes and top PK duties. That's a much, much larger role than anyone is suggesting for Kreider. It's just distributed differently. All anyone is saying is, Callahan would THRIVE the most on that third line, or rather, his game would suffer the least. We're simply talking about what line combinations will be the most productive, most effective. We're not talking about Callahan's throne and why he deserves 'more' than Kreider to play in the top six. That conversation is 100% about ego.

I don't give a damn about the individuals. You think I do, but I don't. My concern is winning. And In my opinion, Callahan provides more to our top-6 than he would on our third-line.

You want to give me crap about my man-crush with Callahan? This whole forum is having multiples over Kreider. Including you. Pot, meet kettle. But it's ok when it comes out of your mouth instead of mine, because you disagree with me. That's a real mature approach to a discussion you want to be taken seriously in.

I guarantee you that our coach plays him where he's best suited, which is in our top-6. I hope you're not upset when you see that.

 

[Boruto]

Those are my lines exactly, and for largely the same reasons.

I didn't read back but are these hypotheticals or are these from camp today? I saw the tweet with specific guys in colored jerseys.

 

[RGY]

I didn't read back but are these hypotheticals or are these from camp today? I saw the tweet with specific guys in colored jerseys.

Hypotheticals.

 

[RGY]

I don't give a damn about the individuals. You think I do, but I don't. My concern is winning. And In my opinion, Callahan provides more to our top-6 than he would on our third-line.

You want to give me crap about my man-crush with Callahan? This whole forum is having multiples over Kreider. Including you. Pot, meet kettle. But it's ok when it comes out of your mouth instead of mine, because you disagree with me. That's a real mature approach to a discussion you want to be taken seriously in.

I guarantee you that our coach plays him where he's best suited, which is in our top-6. I hope you're not upset when you see that.

You need to calm down. There is no man crush on Kreider. You clearly didn't read the majority of his post, at least not thoroughly. If you had read the past few posts, you would have read that we are both agreeing that callahan is a great player, and for me at least, I love callahan. He never ceases to amaze me with his work ethic and his game. But clearly you're not getting it. We are not preaching individuality, we are preaching where certain individuals fit better to make the overall TEAM better. Everything he was saying is exactly how torts coaches and would be what would happen if Callahan was slated on a line with Boyle and Pyatt. But no our reasoning can't possibly be right. Because you only see things one way and that is your way.

And no, neither of us will be upset if callahan is in the top 6.

 

[Samuel Culper III]

I don't give a damn about the individuals. You think I do, but I don't. My concern is winning. And In my opinion, Callahan provides more to our top-6 than he would on our third-line.

You want to give me crap about my man-crush with Callahan? This whole forum is having multiples over Kreider. Including you. Pot, meet kettle. But it's ok when it comes out of your mouth instead of mine, because you disagree with me. That's a real mature approach to a discussion you want to be taken seriously in.

I guarantee you that our coach plays him where he's best suited, which is in our top-6. I hope you're not upset when you see that.

No, it's not. Kreider has fallen out of favor because of his lack of production in the AHL. And no, I'm specifically not. I'm not that high on Kreider and like Callahan many times more. You're just proving how much this is about ego. I told you I'm not taking a shot at you and that I love Cally and simply feel you're being blinded by your admiration for what a good hockey player he is. You're taking shots at me now because your EGO can't handle it; you're acting infantile. Why would I be UPSET to see Callahan in the top six? You're so offended by the suggestion that you're being an insulting, immature *****. I made an intelligent, supported argument outlining why I SPECULATE it may be a better option to play Callahan in a shut down role at ES and let Kreider play with talent. You can't handle it so you threw a little tantrum. I guess I know whose posts to simply ignore from now on.

 

[RangerBoy]

Asham is suspended for the first game of the season. He got suspended in the Flyers-Penguins series. Playing Bickel on the wing gives them 12. The six D. Haley wasn't brought up.

 

[Boom Boom Geoffrion*]

LOL I am no gaming nerd. I played the game growing up. I understand the game. Call it what you want but that grind it out style of play is exactly how Callahan plays. It is how Dubinsky played. It is how Boyle and Pyatt play. And I am far from being caught up in goals, however, I am caught up in placing players in spots where they can succeed and they can help the team succeed; getting the best and most use out of said player. Putting Kreider on the 3rd line does not do that. Kreider is not adaptable. Callahan is, because he is a great hockey player. And that is the difference. Sometimes you have to cater to certain players, know your strengths and weaknesses. Your strength is that callahan could play on any line given his ability and still provide whether it's on the scoresheet or just his on ice game. Kreider is not adaptable and will not be as good with certain players, that is the bottom line. You can argue it all you want.

And I still strongly disagree that the top 2 lines will have a significantly more amount of ice time than the 3rd line, especially in a shortened season and especially when callahan and boyle are on that 3rd line.

Also, I'm not quite sure how a 48 game season has nothing to do with anything. Don't mention how Pyatt and Boyle are cable of putting up double digit goals then if the 48 games has nothing to do with anything, because that statistical opinion is irrelevant as well then.

Double digit goals were based on a full-season. I'm not going to take any guesses on what they will produce in a shortened season.

I'm not convinced with Kreider, and Hagelin. I need to see more. I've seen enough of Callahan to know his strengths. Call it a comfort thing. If Kreider and Hagelin proved they round our line-up more, than I'm all for it. I don't believe they do though. Not yet, anyway.

I think Kreider is young enough where you can mold him, and add different dimensions to his game. He's still, coachable if you want to call it that. I think he needs time in the big leagues to round out his game. I don't think a top-6 role is ideal for him yet. Yet.

 

[RGY]

Asham is suspended for the first game of the season. He got suspended in the Flyers-Penguins series. Playing Bickel on the wing gives them 12. The six D. Haley wasn't brought up.

You don;t think they'll have Haley play that game?

 

[RGY]

Double digit goals were based on a full-season. I'm not going to take any guesses on what they will produce in a shortened season.

I'm not convinced with Kreider, and Hagelin. I need to see more. I've seen enough of Callahan to know his strengths. Call it a comfort thing. If Kreider and Hagelin proved they round our line-up more, than I'm all for it. I don't believe they do though. Not yet, anyway.

I think Kreider is young enough where you can mold him, and add different dimensions to his game. He's still, coachable if you want to call it that. I think he needs time in the big leagues to round out his game. I don't think a top-6 role is ideal for him yet. Yet.

Kreider was thrusted into the middle of a playoff series and he provided playing in the top 6. Now granted his defensive game needs work, a lot of work. But playing in the playoffs, especially those 7 game series and the 6 game series were as real and as tough as it gets. I understand what you are saying about him still being coachable. But he can stay in the top 6 and still be coachable especially with John Tortorella as the coach. Heck he benched him in the capitals series. Kreider will learn and get better defensively under Tortorella. That doesn't mean he has to be on a line with Boyle and Pyatt to do so.

 

[XLJ]

They need to switch Kreider and Hagelin. Hagelin played well with Boyle before he moved to Richards line last year. Kreider game doesn't fit with Boyle and Pyatt. He needs someone like Stepan to play with. Torts will rely on 3 lines. I don't see him playing the 4th line much. Hagelin-Boyle-Pyatt could be a really good checking line.

Nash-Richards-Gaborik
Kreider-Stepan-Callahan
Hagelin-Boyle-Pyatt
Rupp-Halpern-Asham

 

[Boom Boom Geoffrion*]

No, it's not. Kreider has fallen out of favor because of his lack of production in the AHL. And no, I'm specifically not. I'm not that high on Kreider and like Callahan many times more. You're just proving how much this is about ego. I told you I'm not taking a shot at you and that I love Cally and simply feel you're being blinded by your admiration for what a good hockey player he is. You're taking shots at me now because your EGO can't handle it; you're acting infantile. Why would I be UPSET to see Callahan in the top six? You're so offended by the suggestion that you're being an insulting, immature *****. I made an intelligent, supported argument outlining why I SPECULATE it may be a better option to play Callahan in a shut down role at ES and let Kreider play with talent. You can't handle it so you threw a little tantrum. I guess I know whose posts to simply ignore from now on.

This is a tantrum. Not what I posted. I think your ego is much more hurt than mine

I just don't agree with your speculation. And I view you as part of the crowd that wants to award a player a spot in our line-up without fully proving it. Call me old school, I think players need to earn their roles. You on the other hand want to award it based on potential. Clearly.

 

[Vitto79]

Asham is suspended for the first game of the season. He got suspended in the Flyers-Penguins series. Playing Bickel on the wing gives them 12. The six D. Haley wasn't brought up.

did you not see Haley coming up on the first day of camp? I imagine they are going to bring in 3 F for the week long camp.

Haley has a 2 way deal this yr so I prefer him in CT with a veteran signed as a cheap spare. I do agree Bickel could be used as a 4th line winger on opening night since I expect Gilroy is signed and they carry 8 D into the yr.

Wondering who you think the 5th line in camp will be? Kolarik, Newbury, Segal have NHL experience.

 

[Levitate]

How are you not convinced on Hagelin? He was on a 48 point pace as a rookie and he plays the kind of style that's effective even if he's in a slump. I'm not going to predict he's a star or anything but he has the tools to produce with other talented players and the work ethic to be a huge huge asset on the forecheck. I'm incredibly relieved that his shoulder isn't an issue and that he's ready to go, because the speed and tenacity he brings to the offense will be huge. He forces teams to make bad plays with his speed