Trades & Free Agency Thread - Too Soon Off-Season Edition

[Dreakmur]

No thank you hard pass. Massive overpayment from the Leafs side. Remember Marner is the best player in the deal and can be debated that Reilly is the best dman in the deal.

Marner for both of those players with a prospect or pick from our side going there as well. Maybe I think about it. But your deal is totally off base.

Best player, sure but he’s overpaid and shrinks under pressure.

Put Giroux with Matthews and he’s a point per game. He’s also a huge PP weapon and a good playoff performer.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I was talking about McCrimmon.


I'm not sure about McPhee.

Oh yes! I think he didn't actually come because Hunter was here. I am going to guess in that he didn't want to compete for the next GM opening after Lou with Mark.

 

[Avilaj07]

If there could be a package with Philly for both Konecny and Provorov, you do it.

To Toronto-
Provorov
Konecny
Frost
1st Round Pick

To Philly-
Marner
Rielly
Engvall

 

[Mess]

One poster said none of those Flyers come close to Marner individually, so Philly is going to need to overpay a fair bit to make up for it. So one of you is wrong and IMO it is the one who overrates the overpaid winger.

I'll say this if one could hypothetically trade Marner for a #1 top pairing Dman like Provorov than that would certain fix Leafs top heavy Cap spending on 4 X F if its now AM + JT+ WN + Provorov as our 4 highest paid players on better balance and you save > +$ 4 mil to spend elsewhere on the team in the cap savings from Marner $10.96 to Provorov to $6.75 mil.

Now had Dubas signed Marner to the Brayden Point 3 X $675 mil deal then Leafs would have more trade partners and more teams including Cup contenders could afford Marner's cap hit.

My biggest fear however if Leafs don't move on from Marner now while he still has value, because if he has 1 more poor playoffs like he did against CBJ and Montreal then his value would drop further still and become even harder to trade once his reputation as a non playoff performer extends to 3 or more years in a row.

 

[Rare Jewel]

Oh yes! I think he didn't actually come back Hunter was here. I am going to guess in that he didn't want to compete for the next GM opening after Lou with Mark.

Or he was going to take Hunter's role if he became the GM. Either way he made a good decision for himself looking at it now.

 

[Stigma]

With all due respect its Leaf fans that are suggesting Provorov and Konecny for Marner. I don't think that is remotely possible.

Konecny was Philly's leading scorer in 2019-20 and in 349 games he has 94 goals while Marner in 355 games has 103. Marner simply piles up more assists because of better supporting cast playing wing with the Rocket Richard winner.

Provorov is Philly's #1 Dman and they play him 25 minutes a night making $6,750,000 why would they want to trade him even straight up for Marner? How often do you see elite top pairing Dmen get traded as this is what all team covet and are looking for to build around.

Philly also understands your very logic that their own 2 players Provorov and Konecny do more for their own team then Marner would alone. The very reason you want to make the trade is the same reason Philly would not. If you look at this from Philly's standpoint instead of the Leafs would you trade your #1 Dman and one of your best scoring forwards with 3 X straight years of 24 goals for Marner?

The only way this trade would make any sense is strictly from a Cap hit perspective and $$ in and $$ out where Provorov @ $6.75 mil + Konecny @ $5.5 mil offset Marners $10.96 mil. Then 2 productive players using similar cap space compared to 1 isn't a good trade because add Provorov + Konecny points and production together and >> Marner.

I agree with this logic. Provorov is young too. He is not even close to being in his prime. Personally, I do Marner for Provorov easily.

 

[Brobust]

I agree with this logic. Provorov is young too. He is not even close to being in his prime. Personally, I do Marner for Provorov easily.

That would be an all time disaster and I don't think the franchise would recover for half a decade and maybe longer.

 

[leafsfan5]

I'm 100% with a base of Marner + Rielly for Provorov + Konency

Without any other additions we also save 3.65 million of cap space here. That's enough to add another good forward piece

 

[kevsh]

Marner simply piles up more assists because of better supporting cast playing wing with the Rocket Richard winner.

I agree Philly doesn't do this deal, but Kadri had 30 playing with Marner (never been over 20 before or since), Tavares had a career season (scored 9 more than his career high) and Matthews is the RR winner this year. Coincidences?

Let's not pretend that Marner is the one solely benefiting from playing with great linemates.

 

[Mess]

I'm 100% with a base of Marner + Rielly for Provorov + Konency

Without any other additions we also save 3.65 million of cap space here. That's enough to add another good forward piece

That seems far more realistic and plausible value wise. IMO

Philly would look to get Rielly under contact long-term, and Leafs could use the cap savings on re-signing a player like Hyman (from $2.5 to $5.5 mil).

 

[Torontonian]

Signing Hamilton and trading Moe might be the play to make depending on how much he makes in FA. If its 7m-7.5m range I don't think adding 2.5m is going to kill Toronto in the cap department and hes 27, so you got 5 years of solid hockey from him? You then get to recoup some assets such as a first round pick and prospects to trade for at the deadline or try to insert into your lineup. I think Moe is too good of an assets to just let him walk into FA.

I keep reading all these Marner trade proposals, it's not going to happen haha, I am going to say Dubas is probably willing to lose his job and go down with the ship on not trading Marner and trying to win with his cap into 4 forwards. Problem with trying to trade Marner is your never going to replace his skill he brings. People are upset at him for his playoffs and rightly so, but he brings a ton of skill to your lineup.

 

[ToneDog]

I'm 100% with a base of Marner + Rielly for Provorov + Konency

Without any other additions we also save 3.65 million of cap space here. That's enough to add another good forward piece

That is the kind of trade that could put the team back on track but Philly has to add a bit more before I make that deal 2 for 2.

For me I prefer Marner + Rielly for Jones + Foudy + Korpisalo and a pick if the Jackets return seems light.

 

[LaPlante94]

Weren't we linked with Rakell? Might actually make that happen now this off season if true.

 

[ToneDog]

Signing Hamilton and trading Moe might be the play to make depending on how much he makes in FA. If its 7m-7.5m range I don't think adding 2.5m is going to kill Toronto in the cap department and hes 27, so you got 5 years of solid hockey from him? You then get to recoup some assets such as a first round pick and prospects to trade for at the deadline or try to insert into your lineup. I think Moe is too good of an assets to just let him walk into FA.

I keep reading all these Marner trade proposals, it's not going to happen haha, I am going to say Dubas is probably willing to lose his job and go down with the ship on not trading Marner and trying to win with his cap into 4 forwards. Problem with trying to trade Marner is your never going to replace his skill he brings. People are upset at him for his playoffs and rightly so, but he brings a ton of skill to your lineup.

Signing Hamilton and trading 44 was my strategy as well but I think Hamilton wants to cash in and won't be giving much of a discount, especially if we are talking Dubie dollars.

 

[Nylanderthal]

A player i would like to target is Lawson Crouse

A big body who can skate and play. We need a physical body who can contribute once on a while

Not another Mikaheyev who can skate but can't score or Simmonds who can't skate or do anything

He sucks. Draft pedigree aside crouse is bad at hockey and would be a liability on this team

 

[WTFMAN99]

Provorov, Konecny for Marner, Rielly, Liljegren

Even if you think the Leafs are overpaying a bit, I would rather to plan for something like that versus pie in the sky stuff hypotheticals where we rob the other team.

Still wonder if they'd want Holl at all.

 

[fahad203]

Free Agency netted us Bogosian and Brodie too.

The logic really falls apart in the fact that Lawson Crouse is a bad player. He dominated on his size and physicality his whole junior career but as soon as he hit the pro level, his lack of skill caught up to him.

That is the same issue we face with free agency/trading too. Taking a chance on guys like Vesey or Simmonds or even Crouse is not a bad thing. Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. The issue is that we also brought in Thornton and our entire lineup went from fast and skilled to slow and incapable... Just so we can add size and intangibles to the lineup. Dubas was far too overzealous in adjusting his plan and ended up getting killed by it.

You can afford to have one or maybe 2 guys like him in your lineup before it ends up hurting your lineup more than it helps... And you can find those guys in UFA just like we did.

No doubt and I agree. My point was irs time we get some heavy hitters who are young and can skate

 

[Mess]

I agree Philly doesn't do this deal, but Kadri had 30 playing with Marner (never been over 20 before or since), Tavares had a career season (scored 9 more than his career high) and Matthews is the RR winner this year. Coincidences?

Let's not pretend that Marner is the one solely benefiting from playing with great linemates.

Marner is great playmaker nobody would argue that, but every player is a result of their circumstances.

Case in point:

In 2017-18 Matt Barzal in 82 games put up 85 points on 22 goals and 63 assists and won the Calder as rookie of the year, simply by having Tavares on this team, not even on his line, while playing PP together.

Marner that same year in 82 games produced 22 goals 47 assists 69 points .. Barzal had nearly as many assists as Marner did points that season playing with Kadri as both players finished with 22 goals each.

Now swap JT from NYI to TO, and the points flip also accordingly as now Marner rides shotgun with JT and his points go from 69 to 94 points. While Barzal now assumes #1C role and goes from 85 to 62 points.

The players abilities didn't change their surroundings as in Tavares changed.

 

[dubplatepressure]

Provorov, Konecny for Marner, Rielly, Liljegren

Even if you think the Leafs are overpaying a bit, I would rather to plan for something like that versus pie in the sky stuff hypotheticals where we rob the other team.

Still wonder if they'd want Holl at all.

That's not just overpaying by a bit, my friend.

 

[WTFMAN99]

That's not just overpaying by a bit, my friend.

Excellent, I don't feel bad using it in Capfriendly at all then lol.

 

[mydnyte]

If Leafs management had better talent evaluation skills, and understood a top pairing Dman has far more value then a small skilled non physical winger they could just have drafted Provorov back in 2015 themselves where Marner went #4 and Provorov #7 to Philly and Zach Werenski #8.

If Leafs director of Amateur Scouting Mark Hunter wasn't also owner of the London Knights, the outcome could have been different.

The best time to get these elite top pairing Dmen is to draft them, as trying to trade for them later becomes far more difficult.

PS. At time of draft I suggested if the Leafs want a Dman take Provorov, and if they want a centre take Barzal, but don't draft Marner as he is not a primary building block player you want to build around particularly come playoff time

Hanifin was rated ahead and drafted ahead of both Prov and Wer also, so, iif anything we'd have drafted Hanifin

 

[mydnyte]

He's the guy I would fire Dubas for and bring in this instant.

Boudreau/Gallant as HC.

I'd feel great.

older poor career playoff losing coaches are better than our younger who can still learn from his mistake coach why?

 

[mydnyte]

Marner is great playmaker nobody would argue that, but every player is a result of their circumstances.

Case in point:

In 2017-18 Matt Barzal in 82 games put up 85 points on 22 goals and 63 assists and won the Calder as rookie of the year, simply by having Tavares on this team, not even on his line, while playing PP together.

Marner that same year in 82 games produced 22 goals 47 assists 69 points .. Barzal had nearly as many assists as Marner did points that season playing with Kadri as both players finished with 22 goals each.

Now swap JT from NYI to TO, and the points flip also accordingly as now Marner rides shotgun with JT and his points go from 69 to 94 points. While Barzal now assumes #1C role and goes from 85 to 62 points.

The players abilities didn't change their surroundings as in Tavares changed.

Barzal is a Center, and never faced the #1 D pairings, or forward matchups, that helped inflate his totals too.
With Tavares gone, he becomes the primary focus, and as a result, his points dropped.

 

[WTFMAN99]

older poor career playoff losing coaches are better than our younger who can still learn from his mistake coach why?

Gallant with an expansion team has a finals appearance and a loss in round 1, if anything that finals appearance screwed him because expectations were nuts. Also won 2 QMJHL titles along with WC Gold for Canada just recently.

Boudreau, 2 AHL titles along with 2 final appearances. Numerous 2nd and 3rd round appearances.

Keefe - Favoured to win against both CBJ and MTL...lost. AHL title

 

[leafsfan5]

That is the kind of trade that could put the team back on track but Philly has to add a bit more before I make that deal 2 for 2.

For me I prefer Marner + Rielly for Jones + Foudy + Korpisalo and a pick if the Jackets return seems light.

I do agree with that, I'd try and get another piece as well if I could. The difference between Marner/Konency is greater than Provorov/Rielly including contracts imo. But as a foundation I like it