Trades & Free Agency Thread - Too Soon Off-Season Edition

[Brobust]

He had a bad year. Not sure that constitutes as "struggling" but worth noting that he has only really had one high end quality year.

If Farabee is off of the table, then it would probably need to be Marner + Rielly for Provorov + Konecny and Philly adds some cap and other assets to balance things off. It would have to be a major shakeup for both teams. For example:


LD Ivan Provorov
RW Travis Konecny
LW James Van Riemsdyk
C Morgan Frost
2021 1st round pick (14th overall)


RW Mitch Marner
LD Morgan Rielly
LW Pierre Engvall

View attachment 445337

The only reason to reacquire JVR is if you want to reunite him with Marner at 5v5 and PP.

 

[BlueForever75]

If Leafs management had better talent evaluation skills, and understood a top pairing Dman has more far value then a small skilled non physical winger they could just have drafted Provorov back in 2015 themselves where Marner went #4 and Provorov #7 to Philly and Zach Werenski #8.

If Leafs director of Amateur Scouting Mark Hunter wasn't also owner of the London Knights, the outcome could have been different.

The best time to get these elite top pairing Dmen is to draft them, as trying to trade for them later becomes far more difficult.

PS. At time of draft I suggested if the Leafs want a Dman take Provorov, and if they want a centre take Barzal, but don't draft Marner as he is not a primary building block player you want to build around particularly come playoff time

See what I dont get is that we are stating that Marner alone should be able to get us players like Provorov and Konecny from the Flyers in a deal. But yet we are saying that we made the worst choice the Marner draft by selecting him instead of Provorov or Werenski?

With deals being proposed doesnt it show that we made the right selection cause we are getting the player that people say we should have drafted plus another asset in Konecny?

Marner is far from a bust. He is a top 10 player in the NHL hands down. He plays in every situation and is an asset to our team and any team trying to acquire him. Yes he was shutdown this playoffs and those of past seasons. But it doesnt make him a garbage player.

As a Leaf fan I am indifferent in the whole situation. When first knocked out I wanted him out of town. But watching the playoffs since, there is no reason Marner cannot succeed in this league with our team. With that being said, if we can acquire a Provorov and Konecny for Marner I would do the deal in a heartbeat. Marner would be missed dont get me wrong, but those 2 pieces do more for the Leafs then Marner alone.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Marner and Rielly for Provorov and Giroux. One locked up and one UFA each.

I couldn't see them trading Giroux.

 

[BlueForever75]

Marner and Rielly for Provorov and Giroux. One locked up and one UFA each.

No thank you hard pass. Massive overpayment from the Leafs side. Remember Marner is the best player in the deal and can be debated that Reilly is the best dman in the deal.

Marner for both of those players with a prospect or pick from our side going there as well. Maybe I think about it. But your deal is totally off base.

 

[Rare Jewel]

He's the guy I would fire Dubas for and bring in this instant.

Boudreau/Gallant as HC.

I'd feel great.

What about McPhee?

Obvious connection to Boudreau as well.

 

[WTFMAN99]

What about McPhee?

Obvious connection to Boudreau as well.

I like Gorton more.

I was mind blown when he was fired.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

The only reason to reacquire JVR is if you want to reunite him with Marner at 5v5 and PP.

Well in this case it is because he is a cap dump, but we can use him for a couple of years in our top 6 and to have a real net front presence on the PP. He should still be able to score goals, especially if he is playing with either of our top 6 centers.

It's a longshot deal because the Leafs have to really love all of those pieces to consider moving Rielly and Marner, especially together. None of them come close to Marner individually, so Philly is going to need to overpay a fair bit to make up for it.

 

[Rare Jewel]

I like Gorton more.

I was mind blown when he was fired.

He's made some good moves. The Zibanejad trade sticks out particularly.


But what's gone on in LV under McPhee I find as impressive.

 

[ER89]

Marner+Holl for Provorov, JVR, Patrick?

JVR would help the PP.

I typed the first thing that came to mind, I would need to actually look at Flyers roster more.

All day

 

[WTFMAN99]

He's made some good moves. The Zibanejad trade sticks out particularly.


But what's gone on in LV under McPhee I find as impressive.

I found he was kinda reverting to stupid McPhee, he did that Forsberg for Erat trade.

Then he did 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks for Tatar only to turn around, trade Tatar +Suzuki for Paccioretty. That's a top prospect, they're thin at centre. Patches has worked out in Vegas but it still wasn't a pretty series of events.

 

[dubplatepressure]

Well in this case it is because he is a cap dump, but we can use him for a couple of years in our top 6 and to have a real net front presence on the PP. He should still be able to score goals, especially if he is playing with either of our top 6 centers.

It's a longshot deal because the Leafs have to really love all of those pieces to consider moving Rielly and Marner, especially together. None of them come close to Marner individually, so Philly is going to need to overpay a fair bit to make up for it.

When I hear JVR and Netfront Presence I immediately recall all the cursing I used to do at him for not standing in front of the net, but off to the side. I'd still be interested in bringing him back though - solid winger.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I found he was kinda reverting to stupid McPhee, he did that Forsberg for Erat trade.

Then he did 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks for Tatar only to turn around, trade Tatar +Suzuki for Paccioretty. That's a top prospect, they're thin at centre. Patches has worked out in Vegas but it still wasn't a pretty series of events.

He has made a ton of really good teams, but he never won anything.

Washington faced the same struggles we have been facing, but for a lot longer.

Did well with Vegas, but they have not won anything either.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

When I hear JVR and Netfront Presence I immediately recall all the cursing I used to do at him for not standing in front of the net, but off to the side. I'd still be interested in bringing him back though - solid winger.

He averages almost 10 PP goals a season in his career. I think it works for him. He gets open, which is something our guys don't do when they are in front of the net. They battle hard and they get right in there but they spend way too much time engaging with defenders and not enough time being a useful player.

7 mill is too much for him at 32, but he is still pacing 25 goals and 50+ points a year. He'd probably put up more with us too.

 

[Rare Jewel]

I found he was kinda reverting to stupid McPhee, he did that Forsberg for Erat trade.

Then he did 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks for Tatar only to turn around, trade Tatar +Suzuki for Paccioretty. That's a top prospect, they're thin at centre. Patches has worked out in Vegas but it still wasn't a pretty series of events.

Loosing Suzuki could sting, but having Glass (and Morozov) still eases it.

Also possibly winning a cup could sooth it as well.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Loosing Suzuki could sting, but having Glass (and Morozov) still eases it.

Also possibly winning a cup could sooth it as well.

Morozov I believe was a McCrimmon pick technically, I might be wrong. I remember really liking him

 

[Rare Jewel]

He has made a ton of really good teams, but he never won anything.

Washington faced the same struggles we have been facing, but for a lot longer.

Did well with Vegas, but they have not won anything either.

I mean his finger prints are all over the '18 Caps no? Much the same way Tallon in Chicago.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I mean his finger prints are all over the '18 Caps no? Much the same way Tallon in Chicago.

Yes and no. It's not like Yzerman in Tampa or anything, but I guess Backstrom + Ovechkin came from him. It just came from him like 15 years before they actually won anything.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

He's the guy I would fire Dubas for and bring in this instant.

Boudreau/Gallant as HC.

I'd feel great.

I don't think Gorton was fired for failure to do his job as much as the comments about the Wilson hit and Parros being incompetent.

 

[Rare Jewel]

Morozov I believe was a McCrimmon pick technically, I might be wrong. I remember really liking him

I would imagine he too has had say in a lot of their moves.

He almost came to Toronto at one point as well.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I don't think Gorton was fired for failure to do his job as much as the comments about the Wilson hit and Parros being incompetent.

Apparently Davidson and Gorton distanced themselves from the comment, I guess the owner didn't like that.

I would imagine he too has had say in a lot of their moves.

He almost came to Toronto at one point as well.

I never knew that about McPhee, I knew Poile nearly came to Toronto back in the day but he had a choice between NSH and TOR, chose NSH.

My preference is still Gorton but I understand others have their person.

 

[Mess]

See what I dont get is that we are stating that Marner alone should be able to get us players like Provorov and Konecny from the Flyers in a deal. But yet we are saying that we made the worst choice the Marner draft by selecting him instead of Provorov or Werenski?

With deals being proposed doesnt it show that we made the right selection cause we are getting the player that people say we should have drafted plus another asset in Konecny?

Marner is far from a bust. He is a top 10 player in the NHL hands down. He plays in every situation and is an asset to our team and any team trying to acquire him. Yes he was shutdown this playoffs and those of past seasons. But it doesnt make him a garbage player.

As a Leaf fan I am indifferent in the whole situation. When first knocked out I wanted him out of town. But watching the playoffs since, there is no reason Marner cannot succeed in this league with our team. With that being said, if we can acquire a Provorov and Konecny for Marner I would do the deal in a heartbeat. Marner would be missed dont get me wrong, but those 2 pieces do more for the Leafs then Marner alone.

With all due respect its Leaf fans that are suggesting Provorov and Konecny for Marner. I don't think that is remotely possible.

Konecny was Philly's leading scorer in 2019-20 and in 349 games he has 94 goals while Marner in 355 games has 103. Marner simply piles up more assists because of better supporting cast playing wing with the Rocket Richard winner.

Provorov is Philly's #1 Dman and they play him 25 minutes a night making $6,750,000 why would they want to trade him even straight up for Marner? How often do you see elite top pairing Dmen get traded as this is what all team covet and are looking for to build around.

Philly also understands your very logic that their own 2 players Provorov and Konecny do more for their own team then Marner would alone. The very reason you want to make the trade is the same reason Philly would not. If you look at this from Philly's standpoint instead of the Leafs would you trade your #1 Dman and one of your best scoring forwards with 3 X straight years of 24 goals for Marner?

The only way this trade would make any sense is strictly from a Cap hit perspective and $$ in and $$ out where Provorov @ $6.75 mil + Konecny @ $5.5 mil offset Marners $10.96 mil. Then 2 productive players using similar cap space compared to 1 isn't a good trade because add Provorov + Konecny points and production together and >> Marner.

 

[WTFMAN99]

With all due respect its Leaf fans that are suggesting Provorov and Konecny for Marner. I don't think that is remotely possible.

Konecny was Philly's leading scorer in 2019-20 and in 349 games he has 94 goals while Marner in 355 games has 103. Marner simply piles up more assists because of better supporting cast playing wing with the Rocket Richard winner.

Provorov is Philly's #1 Dman and they play him 25 minutes a night making $6,750,000 why would they want to trade him even straight up for Marner? How often do you see elite top pairing Dmen get traded as this is what all team covet and are looking for to build around.

Philly also understands your very logic that their own 2 players Provorov and Konecny do more for their own team then Marner would alone. The very reason you want to make the trade is the same reason Philly would not. If you look at this from Philly's standpoint instead of the Leafs would you trade your #1 Dman and one of your best scoring forwards with 3 X straight years of 24 goals for Marner?

It's probably closer to straight up or small pluses from each side to further meet needs. Flyers don't have an age appropriate dynamic forward like Marner but have a wealth of D in Sanheim, Myers, Ghost, Hagg with York on the way. They haven't had success at this point so they're likely trying to see what their options are. A Marner acquisition is probably one of the few that makes the Provorov conversation occur.

 

[Rare Jewel]

Yes and no. It's not like Yzerman in Tampa or anything, but I guess Backstrom + Ovechkin came from him. It just came from him like 15 years before they actually won anything.

Carlson, Kuznetsov, Holtby, Wilson etc...

I think it is quite similar to Yzerman and Tallon. He was there a while though.

 

[Rare Jewel]

I never knew that about McPhee, I knew Poile nearly came to Toronto back in the day but he had a choice between NSH and TOR, chose NSH.

My preference is still Gorton but I understand others have their person.

I was talking about McCrimmon.


I'm not sure about McPhee.

 

[ToneDog]

With all due respect its Leaf fans that are suggesting Provorov and Konecny for Marner. I don't think that is remotely possible.

Konecny was Philly's leading scorer in 2019-20 and in 349 games he has 94 goals while Marner in 355 games has 103. Marner simply piles up more assists because of better supporting cast playing wing with the Rocket Richard winner.

Provorov is Philly's #1 Dman and they play him 25 minutes a night making $6,750,000 why would they want to trade him even straight up for Marner? How often do you see elite top pairing Dmen get traded as this is what all team covet and are looking for to build around.

Philly also understands your very logic that their own 2 players Provorov and Konecny do more for their own team then Marner would alone. The very reason you want to make the trade is the same reason Philly would not. If you look at this from Philly's standpoint instead of the Leafs would you trade your #1 Dman and one of your best scoring forwards with 3 X straight years of 24 goals for Marner?

The only way this trade would make any sense is strictly from a Cap hit perspective and $$ in and $$ out where Provorov @ $6.75 mil + Konecny @ $5.5 mil offset Marners $10.96 mil. Then 2 productive players using similar cap space compared to 1 isn't a good trade because add Provorov + Konecny points and production together and >> Marner.

One poster said none of those Flyers come close to Marner individually, so Philly is going to need to overpay a fair bit to make up for it. So one of you is wrong and IMO it is the one who overrates the overpaid winger.