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Trades & Free Agency Thread - Too Soon Off-Season Edition

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LaPlante94 said:
Kapanen got 3.6 here for being a 20 goal guy and 40 point player so I don't expect Hyman to get much more than that especially when he's been playing with Matthews his entire career pretty much. He was on pace for a career year this season but if Dubas lets his agent use that as a way to ask for more than 4 mil then Shanahan or someone has to step in to slap him or something.
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Hyman has been a 30 goal pace player the last two seasons.
 
Avilaj07 said:
Personally I believe Dubas is afraid to trade Marner, and I think it's solely on the case of keeping Matthews happy. All we've heard was how much these 2 want to play together and how they're best friends etc etc. They don't really seem like team first guys to be honest. Dubas might be afraid that if he trades Marner, well then that means bye bye Matthews at the end of his contract. If that is the case, I'd trade both of them right now because it just shows they care more about themselves then the team.
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I'd trade Marner, then once he's had time to digest it, talk to Matthews and find out if he wants to be here long term or not. If the answer isn't a firm yes then trade him also.

I'm sure I will get a ton of grief, you don't trade players of that caliber blah blah blah but we're not winning with these guys as it is now, it's highly doubtful we'll ever win with these contracts, at least not until the cap goes up which probably won't be for several years. Then there's always the chance that another couple years of losing (very possible considering how tough our division is) will make Matthews want to leave anyway as the pressure will be extremely unpleasant by then.

I say this because I just think someone has to go for the simple reason that the team would be better with two forwards who play a playoff type game with the combined salary of Marner. If anyone thinks we can win with half our cap spent on these four guys then I understand they won't agree with me. And Marner's overpaid in terms of cap, that's always been the case, I just keep adjusting the amount he's overpaid by as his performance goes up and down and after these playoffs, it's at a low point. In real dollars he's a bargain though so he's worth a lot to a team that cares more about real dollars then cap space. That's what it comes down to forme - Marner's worth more to a number of other teams than he is to us.
 
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To Toronto-
Hayton
Garland
Chychrun
1st Round Pick

To Arizona-
Matthews

To Toronto-
Seth Jones

To Columbus-
Marner

To Toronto-
1st Round Pick
A Level Prospect

To Team-
Morgan Rielly
 
Avilaj07 said:
To Toronto-
Hayton
Garland
Chychrun
1st Round Pick

To Arizona-
Matthews

To Toronto-
Seth Jones

To Columbus-
Marner

To Toronto-
1st Round Pick
A Level Prospect

To Team-
Morgan Rielly
Click to expand...
There is shaking up the core and then there is this lool.

Marner for Seth Jones is a bad deal for leafs even if extended, they should be adding a young skilled potential top 9 winger

Matthews isn't being dealt with this year and that is too little. If we deal him it's for a monster haul which that is not. Yotes don't even own their 2021 1st, Hayton is a disappointment, and Garland can be acquired probably for a 1st+amirov type package at the highest

Rielly if we get Jones should be kept and paired with him giving us a top 5 elite NHL pair. We should re-up Rielly and getting Jones gives us an unmatchable top 4 on defense
 
Gary Nylund said:
I'd trade Marner, then once he's had time to digest it, talk to Matthews and find out if he wants to be here long term or not. If the answer isn't a firm yes then trade him also.

I'm sure I will get a ton of grief, you don't trade players of that caliber blah blah blah but we're not winning with these guys as it is now, it's highly doubtful we'll ever win with these contracts, at least not until the cap goes up which probably won't be for several years. Then there's always the chance that another couple years of losing (very possible considering how tough our division is) will make Matthews want to leave anyway as the pressure will be extremely unpleasant by then.

I say this because I just think someone has to go for the simple reason that the team would be better with two forwards who play a playoff type game with the combined salary of Marner. If anyone thinks we can win with half our cap spent on these four guys then I understand they won't agree with me. And Marner's overpaid in terms of cap, that's always been the case, I just keep adjusting the amount he's overpaid by as his performance goes up and down and after these playoffs, it's at a low point. In real dollars he's a bargain though so he's worth a lot to a team that cares more about real dollars then cap space. That's what it comes down to forme - Marner's worth more to a number of other teams than he is to us.
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I agree with your post pretty much but Do you think the two of them will say they don’t like it here just had to go to another team they might be accountable all the here is for the paycheque and soak up the sun get the hell off our team if you have no intention but draining this team dry Time to put on your big boy pants no more playing PS five And getting drunk and run around in your underpants And trying to hide it from the team I cut both of these guys slack for more than a couple years they’re not advancing they’re only getting worse a few years ago we had the Muskoka five at least they had hart
 
Gary Nylund said:
I'd trade Marner, then once he's had time to digest it, talk to Matthews and find out if he wants to be here long term or not. If the answer isn't a firm yes then trade him also.

I'm sure I will get a ton of grief, you don't trade players of that caliber blah blah blah but we're not winning with these guys as it is now, it's highly doubtful we'll ever win with these contracts, at least not until the cap goes up which probably won't be for several years. Then there's always the chance that another couple years of losing (very possible considering how tough our division is) will make Matthews want to leave anyway as the pressure will be extremely unpleasant by then.

I say this because I just think someone has to go for the simple reason that the team would be better with two forwards who play a playoff type game with the combined salary of Marner. If anyone thinks we can win with half our cap spent on these four guys then I understand they won't agree with me. And Marner's overpaid in terms of cap, that's always been the case, I just keep adjusting the amount he's overpaid by as his performance goes up and down and after these playoffs, it's at a low point. In real dollars he's a bargain though so he's worth a lot to a team that cares more about real dollars then cap space. That's what it comes down to forme - Marner's worth more to a number of other teams than he is to us.
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This team is to top heavy and lacks that next tier talent. You go from all the money to 700-1 million.

One players is close to 3 Kadri level players on the team.
Even three 5 million players vs. one 11 million

For example
Matthews 11 - Nylander 7
Tavares 11 - Kadri 5
Kadri 4/5

Rielly - Kadri 4/5
Muzzin - Brodie

Cap balance. Now you can fill in with the Brown 2 mil types, ELC and million dollar Spezza/Perry/Bogo types
 
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Trapper said:
This team is to top heavy and lacks that next tier talent. You go from all the money to 700-1 million.

One players is close to 3 Kadri level players on the team.
Even three 5 million players vs. one 11 million

For example
Matthews 11 - Nylander 7
Tavares 11 - Kadri 5
Kadri 4/5

Rielly - Kadri 4/5
Muzzin - Brodie

Cap balance. Now you can fill in with the Brown 2 mil types, ELC and million dollar Spezza/Perry/Bogo types
Click to expand...

Another example is swap out Marner and our 3 worst/cheapest forwards and replace instead with 4 guys with roughly the same value as Kerfoot. The cap hits roughly balance for us to be able to do that and now we have a top 9 consisting of Matthews, Tavares, Nylander, Hyman and 5 guys with the approx. value of a Kerfoot. Then our fourth line could have been Spezza, Galyenchuk and Engvall or whatever.

It's amazing how much how much quality depth you can buy for the price of one Marner.
 
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Gary Nylund said:
Another example is swap out Marner and our 3 worst/cheapest forwards and replace instead with 4 guys with roughly the same value as Kerfoot. The cap hits roughly balance for us to be able to do that and now we have a top 9 consisting of Matthews, Tavares, Nylander, Hyman and 5 guys with the approx. value of a Kerfoot. Then our fourth line could have been Spezza, Galyenchuk and Engvall or whatever.

It's amazing how much how much quality depth you can buy for the price of one Marner.
Click to expand...
I'd rather have the hard to get elite talented player, than a bunch of easy to get middling players
 
Avilaj07 said:
To Toronto-
Hayton
Garland
Chychrun
1st Round Pick

To Arizona-
Matthews

To Toronto-
Seth Jones

To Columbus-
Marner

To Toronto-
1st Round Pick
A Level Prospect

To Team-
Morgan Rielly
Click to expand...

Incoming decades of darkness if any of these trades happen.

How the f*** do you come up with trades where we get less for our stars than the Avs got for Duchene?
 
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Gary Nylund said:
Even without Marner we still have 3 elite forwards.
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...and i remember when we had none, so, call me selfish, i'd like to add more elite players, not get rid of them.
I deal one away for an unproven 'future' star, or, a different style star, but, not for lesser quantity.

I still remember how PO'd i was when we traded away Lanny Mcdonald and later Sittler, even though he wasnt a star anymore.
 
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ultimately, I just hope Dubas learned a lot from this year and has a smarter approach for this offseason. Players like Thornton and Simmonds can't and won't make our star players magically better through leadership and experience, but players like Galchenyuk can pick up some slack and produce. He may as well get players who can actually contribute rather than players who offer nothing with the hopes they will force others to step up. It won't work
 
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mydnyte said:
...and i remember when we had none, so, call me selfish, i'd like to add more elite players, not get rid of them.
I deal one away for an unproven 'future' star, or, a different style star, but, not for lesser quantity.

I still remember how PO'd i was when we traded away Lanny Mcdonald and later Sittler, even though he wasnt a star anymore.
Click to expand...

Those were terrible trades, pissed me off too. Different situation though. Elite players are nice but if you don't win with them, what good are they?
 
I doubt we're going to trade Marner, but I think a package around 2nd OA from Seattle would be interesting. Could flip that pick for a pretty darn good player, or use the cap space to go hard after Hamilton.

If we can't re-sign Hyman I wonder what kind of money Saad would be looking for. Wouldn't give him the 6m again, but if he's looking for 4m I think that could be a good fit.

If we trade Matthews I'm deleting my account becoming a Bruins fan.
 
ToneDog said:
Given our cap situation, I figure one way to improve the team is to sign a UFA (free asset) that allows you to trade another player for assets. For example sign Hamilton and trade Rielly. Sign Schwartz and trade Nylander.
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That doesn't improve the team, that keeps them, where they are at
 
Gary Nylund said:
I'd trade Marner, then once he's had time to digest it, talk to Matthews and find out if he wants to be here long term or not. If the answer isn't a firm yes then trade him also.

I'm sure I will get a ton of grief, you don't trade players of that caliber blah blah blah but we're not winning with these guys as it is now, it's highly doubtful we'll ever win with these contracts, at least not until the cap goes up which probably won't be for several years. Then there's always the chance that another couple years of losing (very possible considering how tough our division is) will make Matthews want to leave anyway as the pressure will be extremely unpleasant by then.

I say this because I just think someone has to go for the simple reason that the team would be better with two forwards who play a playoff type game with the combined salary of Marner. If anyone thinks we can win with half our cap spent on these four guys then I understand they won't agree with me. And Marner's overpaid in terms of cap, that's always been the case, I just keep adjusting the amount he's overpaid by as his performance goes up and down and after these playoffs, it's at a low point. In real dollars he's a bargain though so he's worth a lot to a team that cares more about real dollars then cap space. That's what it comes down to forme - Marner's worth more to a number of other teams than he is to us.
Click to expand...

Trading Matthews is obviously insane in the sense that we'll likely not see a player of that ilk for quite some time. But if we can't win with him and he has his sights set on elsewhere in three years it becomes somewhat palatable. If, for example, we trade him to Arizona after his signing bonus is paid for their 2022 & 2023 unprotected firsts + Dvorak, we're likely still a round one & done team just like now, but with two potential lottery tickets and 7 million in cap space.

I'd rather fire management and give it one more shot with Matthews while moving Marner though.
 
I think you have to move Marner just to free up the cap space. That, or you somehow land those depth players we need (ie., Schwartz, Coleman, Granlund, Haula etc) on the cheap, like 1-2 mil per player which is just not happening for a couple of those probably.

I think the team needs a wake-up call and moving out some salary would be the right call here.
 
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