Trades & Free Agency Thread - Too Soon Off-Season Edition

[Avilaj07]

People keep mentioning how Matthews disappeared in the playoffs but I put that on Marner and Hyman. Keefe's biggest problem was keeping Matthews and Marner together and not putting a hot Nylander with Matthews.

With Montreal knowing Marner doesn't shoot and with Hyman's lack of ability to finish, they constantly had 2-3 guys attached to Matthews making it nearly impossible for him to get any chances. Putting Nylander with Matthews would've instantly gave him more space since Nylander can shoot with the best of them as well as set up. My ideal lineup after game 5 would've been,

Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Kerfoot-Spezza-Marner

Those were the 6 guys we should've played majority of the game with the remaining 6 getting minimal minutes.

Keefe takes a lot of the blame for not adjusting

 

[Brobust]

• Forward logic: 3 lines that can create offence. Auston's line matches up and is a 2-way line while Tavares/Nylander and Marner/Schwartz feast. The 4th line is a do nothing line that just forechecks and plays hard.
• Defence logic: The defence is a bit of a question mark, but there's one guy on each pair who can defend well.
• Goalie logic: I don't care about who the backup is. But the budget should be $2.5M or less.
• Cap wise: made sure everything expires by Matthews re-sign time. Fingers crossed.

 

[Cor]

Context is important, thanks!

Did they mention that keeping these core players is only in question because of the poor internal cap structure?

Does Dangle still endorse Dubas?

Dangle/Wylde spoke that, regardless of the result, the cap structure imagined when Matthews and Marner signed their deals, being a rising cap allowing them to make additions within the growth, is no longer possible. To them, the possibility of moving Marner seemed more like a cap management decision, more than anything else.

They didn’t really speak much too Dubas this episode tbh, other than that, there seems to be a disrespect from the players towards Dubas. He gave them the big deals, he brought in the defensive help, he found a new goalie, he brought in physicality, he brought in veteran leadership, he did the big deadline stock up…. And Matthews/Marner repay him by doing nothing, again.

I imagine they’ll speak more about Dubas himself with CJ on tomorrow’s episode. CJ’s post-season episodes usually go through the organization top to bottom.

 

[I am Canadian]

Looks like Hyman might be gone. I’m actually ok with it.......I don’t think giving 5 x 5 to a 29 year old with 2 knee injuries is a great idea in a flat cap world. I would like a change up. But if there isn’t one then ultimately dubas has tons of options on forwards for 3.5 million and under

have a core of.

marner. Matthews xxxxxx
Robertson. Tavares. Nylander
Xxxxx. Xxxxxx. Miky
Xxxxx. Brooks. Spezza.

rielly. Brodie
Muzz. Holl.
Sandin. Lilly.

Campbell
3 million backup.

That leaves 13.5 million for 1 and 4 forwards.
If we could get Bogo back that would be 12.5

you have
-granlund
-haula
-goodrow
-Coleman
-martinook
-McGinn
-Tatar
-foligno.
-nash
-gally

to pick from. Just off the top of my head. There are lots of options to move around the core in tbr flat cap. Although I still think a marner trade is inevitable

Did you take into account the extra forward and defenseman on the roster? Additionally, would need to find space for next year as well to re-sign Rielly unless you were comfortable with letting him walk.

 

[Cor]

The harsh reality is that Zach Hyman is likely to get overpaid this year.

I would love for him to stay, but if the number starts with a 5, we simply need to avoid it

Tampa Bay can’t afford to bring back Blake Coleman, and he’d be a great target to bring in, who will likely be at a lower cap hit.

 

[Legion34]

Did you take into account the extra forward and defenseman on the roster? Additionally, would need to find space for next year as well to re-sign Rielly unless you were comfortable with letting him walk.

i did 12 f 7 d and 2 goalies. We would be able to add another forward in a few games.

multiple forwards at 1.5-3.5 would be possible. Providing kerf is expansion fodder

 

[horner]

Haven’t even looked at the UFA class but shuffling/changing the blueline might be the only way to really redistribute money if they’re not moving any of the 4 forwards.

I think Rielly is pretty under appreciated by this fanbase. People seem to overlook all the good he does and focus solely on mistakes not realizing that across the league, the top d that move and make plays with the puck most also commit the most turnovers and mistakes.

The balance for me with Rielly has always been a big net positive and I think they’ll really miss him if/when he’s gone.

Mo 5.5 * 5

Not a top pairing dman

Dosn't skate the way he did with hainsey

No shot from the point.

He is an average dman

Personally I would trade him.

Use those assets for a Brodie type of dman

 

[sxvnert]

Bare bones leafs cap after removing ($3,500,000 Kerfoot, $1,250,000 Engvall, $5,000,000 Rielly)

Matthews 11,640,250
Tavares 11,000,000
Marner 10,903,000
Nylander 6,962,366
Mikheyev 1,645,000
Brooks 725,000
Spezza 700,000
43,575,616

Muzzin 5,625,000
Brodie 5,000,000
Holl 2,000,000
Sandin 894,167
13,519,167

Campbell 1,650,000

Kessel 1,200,000
$59,945,783 - 12 players
Cap Space: $21,554,217

Adding a few prospects from the Rielly trade & internally (Sandin, Robertson), not resigning Hyman for 5m still doesn't leave enough room to ice a superior team to this season.

My guess is Rielly is sacrificed this season (for nhl ready prospects) and one of Nylander or Marner next summer (again for nhl ready prospects) . Campbell will also be seeking a significant pay raise if he becomes the new #1 next summer.

 

[Brobust]

Listening to the Steve Dangle Podcast,they are discussing dealing Rielly and replacing with Sandin.

Would open up space to sign Hyman to a 4x4.5M, backup goalie for 2M and would leave around 4-5M for a top 6 forward after re-upping Bogosian, Spezza.

I really don't think this adds much, but grasping at straws for actual changes without moving Marner or Nylander. I would be open for dealing Marner for the right deal.

I wouldn't pay attention to that podcast anymore.

Both Steve Dangle and Jesse Blake have been infected with the Sportsnet brain worm.

 

[Pi]

We lost to a team that will struggle for 5th place in our division next year. Can't get over that lol.

Wonder what new way we'll find to lose next year.

Maybe we get a reverse heartbreak next year? Down 3-0, tied up to 3-3 and then our typical Game 7 performance.

This team needs changes. I would actively be looking to trade Marner+ for Eichel.

 

[Pi]

The harsh reality is that Zach Hyman is likely to get overpaid this year.

I would love for him to stay, but if the number starts with a 5, we simply need to avoid it

Tampa Bay can’t afford to bring back Blake Coleman, and he’d be a great target to bring in, who will likely be at a lower cap hit.

I like Zach but his numbers in the playoffs are atrocious for a guy who plays with 2 stars.

Maybe the reason that Boston's top line and Colorado's top line are always better than ours is because they don't hesitate to load up their three stars on one line.

It's time to put Matthews and Marner on the same line with Tavares and make 91 a winger on that line as he's capable of winning board battles and getting the puck back.

You may ask what about the second line? Well look at who centers Boston or Colorado's second line. It's a huge drop off from Bergeron or MacKinnon.

Either Kerfoot or Nylander centers the second line. I had no issues with Kerfoot Nylander and Galchenyuk as a line.

 

[Pi]

Not surprised. Dangle is a fool and most often has absolutely no idea what he’s talking about.

Sandin is a long way from an NHL top 4 d man. We just watched him hurt his team far more than he helped them against Montréal despite being mostly sheltered and used in an offensive role.

Many have said it but it’s really hard for a d man to play good defense in the NHL when they’re a below average skater and don’t have physical size or strength to compensate.

I like Sandin, but he hasn’t even proven he’s a full time NHL’er, never mind someone who can fill Morgan Rielly’s shoes.

Rielly to me wasn't part of the future because of cap issues. This playoff series was one of his best.

We need a PMD and Sandin is not that right now and who knows if he will be that in the future. No one on our team can skate with the puck like Rielly. He's definitely worth keeping. It seems like he's been with us forever and yet he's just going to be 28 when we sign him.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Tbh, I think we should keep Rielly. He seems to be one of the few guys that gives a shit and steps up his play. Every year he's out best defenseman in the playoffs. I'd rather completely shift our team focus from an offensive group to a defensive group. Maintain a strong top-four and run a less top-heavy offensive group. Balance the lines with a variety of styles. Go for more of a Carolina Hurricanes approach.

 

[wingman75]

Listening to the Steve Dangle Podcast,they are discussing dealing Rielly and replacing with Sandin.

Would open up space to sign Hyman to a 4x4.5M, backup goalie for 2M and would leave around 4-5M for a top 6 forward after re-upping Bogosian, Spezza.

I really don't think this adds much, but grasping at straws for actual changes without moving Marner or Nylander. I would be open for dealing Marner for the right deal.

While I get that discussion might make sense, Rielly is an elite elite skater. A lot of what he is able to do is because of that. No question Sandin's IQ is a ton higher... but I think when you look at each player in their entirery, Rielly is a LOT better than Sandin... I am not sure I see Sandin's skating improving enough to consider him a replacement for Rielly. In fact, I think that would be a disaster...

 

[sxvnert]

Rielly for prospects in 2021 (UFA in 2022)
Nylander for prospects in 2022 (UFA in 2024)
Matthews for prospects in 2023 before his NMC kicks in (UFA in 2024)
Marner for prospects in 2024 (UFA in 2025)

The freed up cap space along the way can be used on UFAs while putting those prospects directly into the lineup. A savvy enough GM could make this rebuild on the fly work.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Rielly to me wasn't part of the future because of cap issues. This playoff series was one of his best.

We need a PMD and Sandin is not that right now and who knows if he will be that in the future. No one on our team can skate with the puck like Rielly. He's definitely worth keeping. It seems like he's been with us forever and yet he's just going to be 28 when we sign him.

I still find it hilarious that I am reading that Sandin should take over 1PP duties from Rielly next year after watching him in the playoffs. Sandin is not an NHL defenseman right now, never mind one who can handle that kind of responsibility.

Sandin needs a ton of work on his skating. We kept him around to give him a chance at the NHL and to work on his skating and it still needs a lot of work, so I can't imagine how bad it would have been if he went overseas to play instead of working on skill development.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Raptors won several playoff rounds including a trip to the conference finals but kept running into an all time great player on an all time great run with LeBron James and 9 straight finals appearances.

Leafs are losing to the worst team in the playoffs, or missing them altogether after losing in a play in where they were the much more talented team in both instances. 5 straight first round (or less) exits and 0-8 in games with a chance to close.

Raptors and Leafs share a building but the similarities end there. They couldn’t be more different from top to bottom.

Agreed. That Raptors team that won was more than the sum of their parts, while the Leafs are less. They were clearly not the most talented bunch, but they made their opponents work for every possession. They were a deep, defense first team, with a star who wanted to win despite not even wanting to play for the team and an executive that was willing to make tough choices for the betterment of the team. Meanwhile, the Leafs are a shallow, offense first team led by stars who say they love it here but will only play for top dollar, with an executive that won't make the tough choices for the betterment of the team.

 

[sparxx87]

Rielly to me wasn't part of the future because of cap issues. This playoff series was one of his best.

We need a PMD and Sandin is not that right now and who knows if he will be that in the future. No one on our team can skate with the puck like Rielly. He's definitely worth keeping. It seems like he's been with us forever and yet he's just going to be 28 when we sign him.

I think it’ll be another incredibly disappointing colossal failure if Morgan Rielly is a cap casualty while they pay Muzzin who turns 33 next year.

I like Muzzin but 2 straight years he’s hurt and again, turning 33. I’d sent him to Seattle before I’d give up Rielly, Brodie, Dermott and even Holl.

 

[ChuckWoods]

People keep mentioning how Matthews disappeared in the playoffs but I put that on Marner and Hyman. Keefe's biggest problem was keeping Matthews and Marner together and not putting a hot Nylander with Matthews.

With Montreal knowing Marner doesn't shoot and with Hyman's lack of ability to finish, they constantly had 2-3 guys attached to Matthews making it nearly impossible for him to get any chances. Putting Nylander with Matthews would've instantly gave him more space since Nylander can shoot with the best of them as well as set up. My ideal lineup after game 5 would've been,

Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Kerfoot-Spezza-Marner

Those were the 6 guys we should've played majority of the game with the remaining 6 getting minimal minutes.

Keefe takes a lot of the blame for not adjusting

Agreed, that line needed another established shooting threat as Montreal clearly had ONE focal point on that line.

Hence the countless opportunities for Hyman and Marner compared to Matthews quality chances.

Keefe failing to make that adjustment is confusing , but very telling as failing to adjust clearly showed his lack of trust in his depth being able to carry themselves if he went full nuclear and stacked line 1, or even slid Marner to line 2.

 

[Jozay]

I think it’ll be another incredibly disappointing colossal failure if Morgan Rielly is a cap casualty while they pay Muzzin who turns 33 next year.

I like Muzzin but 2 straight years he’s hurt and again, turning 33. I’d sent him to Seattle before I’d give up Rielly, Brodie, Dermott and even Holl.

Next offseason you trade Muzzin after his signing bonus is paid.

That 5.6 can be used to give Rielly, Campbell and Sandin their raises.

Just gotta see how much Rielly wants. If its reasonable maybe you can go forward with him. But if it's not, you probably look to trade Rielly this offseason.

 

[sparxx87]

Agreed. That Raptors team that won was more than the sum of their parts, while the Leafs are less. They were clearly not the most talented bunch, but they made their opponents work for every possession. They were a deep, defense first team, with a star who wanted to win despite not even wanting to play for the team and an executive that was willing to make tough choices for the betterment of the team. Meanwhile, the Leafs are a shallow, offense first team led by stars who say they love it here but will only play for top dollar, with an executive that won't make the tough choices for the betterment of the team.

Deep and balanced but lacking top 5-10 talent that’s critical in the NBA. Trade from position of strength with all star + recent top 10 pick + another 1st for top 5 player.

Leafs are in the complete opposite position.

 

[SeenSchenn2]

Yeah I like Hyman, but if you can find 2 guys at his expected caphit (4-5M) I think that's a huge W. Not sure what Blake Coleman will get, but obviously he'll want term too I think.

 

[ryno23]

I like Zach but his numbers in the playoffs are atrocious for a guy who plays with 2 stars.

Maybe the reason that Boston's top line and Colorado's top line are always better than ours is because they don't hesitate to load up their three stars on one line.

It's time to put Matthews and Marner on the same line with Tavares and make 91 a winger on that line as he's capable of winning board battles and getting the puck back.

You may ask what about the second line? Well look at who centers Boston or Colorado's second line. It's a huge drop off from Bergeron or MacKinnon.

Either Kerfoot or Nylander centers the second line. I had no issues with Kerfoot Nylander and Galchenyuk as a line.

I like your thinking but you do it the opposite way. You put Nylander up there and he plays off wing. JT has been know to carry plugs around to make them good guys like Matt Moulson in Long Island.

Marner - Matthews - Nylander
XXX - JT - Robertson
Hyman -Kerfoot - Mik
Spezza - Brooks - Joey Anderson

 

[Avilaj07]

One thing that stood out from the press conferences was just how comfortable Matthews and Marner were in knowing they're not going anywhere. As the highest paid players on the team, you would think there would be a fire within them but they just didn't seem to care. Shanahan stated that this team is lacking that killer instinct and that should instantly be directed to those 2.

Personally I would definitely move Marner in either a 1 for 1 trade (Marner for Seth Jones) or for multiple pieces (Marner for Konechny ++) and then look at moving Rielly. I love a Hyman but for what sounds like will be a $5 million + price tag, I really hope we decide to move on from that. I'd rather us look at someone who plays the same style but with a little bit more skill (Coleman, Palmeiri, etc)

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Hyman played on a torn ALC 1 playoffs and was clearly playing with another knee injury this playoffs. Wouldn't look at his production too closely as a result