Trades & Free Agency Thread - Too Soon Off-Season Edition

[Amadeus]

Just a group that's really hard to cheer for.

 

[hamzarocks]

This is not a predication as it seems the core will be kept as is. I think we are going to miss the playoffs next season with this core.

Matthews for Draisaitl, 2020 1st, 2021 1st
Nylander for Bennet, Lundell, Luostarinen
Robertson for Tomasino, Prokop

We need more salary cap and refill the prospect pool.

Luostarinen - Tavares - Tomasino
Bennett - Draisaitl - Marner
Hyman - Kundell - Spezza
Engvall - Brooks - Spezza

Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Liljegren
Sandin - Holl

Oilers wouldn't do Draisaitl for Matthews straight let alone the additions (you probably meant 2021 and 2022 1sts)

Draisaitl is better overall offensive talent than Matthews. Much better play maker and a bit worse goal scorer. He makes 3+ million less and is signed longer while having led his team to a serires victory once.

Oilers will build around 97 and 29 and if they fail to win then maybe in 2 years they deal one of them or one of them asks out.

 

[hockeywiz542]

LeBrun: What rival NHL executives are saying about how to fix the Maple Leafs - The Athletic

I solicited insight from rival NHL team executives in the aftermath of the Leafs’ collapse. And I can tell you they did so while having tremendous respect for the Leafs’ management group but understanding that it’s a business and GM Kyle Dubas and his group have to learn from this latest setback.

Or, not overreact.

As you will see, it’s not a uniform reaction.

Before I get to it, though, a thought of my own. I think what’s going to be most interesting is how the MLSE Board of Directors react to this setback. My sense is that the patience/status quo option is not going to be a welcome answer for the owners. Not when MLSE is dolling out millions in July 1 signing bonuses to some of these players and still paying Mike Babcock $5.875 million through June 2023 not to coach the Leafs.

While it may be that staying patient and believing in the Leafs’ core and not overreacting is actually the route to go hockey-wise, I’m not sure the people in suits at MLSE are going to go for that business-wise.

But I certainly could be wrong.

My point is that before you get into the hockey part of all this, you have to start at the very top and work your way down.

This will be the toughest offseason of Brendan Shanahan’s seven-year term as Leafs president. He’s done wonders for the culture of the franchise and how things get done now, a lot of credit to him for that. But it’s a results-oriented business.

......................

Team executive No. 3: Trade one of the big pieces up front for D/G help. All offense hasn’t worked.

I don’t think Kyle or Sheldon (Keefe) should lose their jobs. But I do think someone has to tell them that the plan hasn’t worked. You got to change things. Trade one of those (big salary) guys.

You already had $5 million in your budget allocated to a goalie which will be freed up.

Team executive No. 4: Step 1: Complete a brutally honest philosophical self assessment.

If you speak to senior people they will quietly tell you they have concerns about the Leafs’ philosophy of: Focusing only on high octane offense with the belief that if you outscore everyone you will win. It seems they would rather beat you 6-5 than 2-1 and we all know that’s not how you succeed in the playoffs. And, reduce their myopic obsession with analytics as being the defacto decision maker. Analytics are important but should only be one of several criteria evaluated in every decision. Both publicly and privately people know that analytics has a disproportionate influence and makes all the player personnel decisions.

Step 2: A complete re-think of their team-building strategy. Their approach has been to collect the highest profile, high-octane offensive players possible and assemble them at the top of the roster. This is both disruptive from a team chemistry perspective and a salary cap management perspective.

From there, they seek out players who they can wedge into their limited cap space to fill out the roster. This results in is a top-heavy lineup with little to no balance from a cap space perspective, a team make up perspective and a competitive perspective. They seem to view the non core players as completely interchangeable parts and we all know that isn’t reality when building a team capable of going deep in the playoffs and winning a Stanley Cup.

Step 3: They need to redistribute some of their cap space differently throughout their lineup. This will provide greater levels of roster stability, overall depth and a much better, balanced team built for playoff competitiveness.

Step 4: Assuming they reduce their dependency on analytics, they need to stop trading draft picks. Their best players were drafted by the Leafs (albeit they were all high picks) and in order to provide a long term, competitive team, they need to ensure they have a steady flow of young players into the organization.

It will take courage to do this because it flies in the face of much of what they have publicly proclaimed they believe in. However, their beliefs have not rendered the desired results and true leadership will have the balls to admit as much and alter their approach. You know the old saying “No guts, no glory.”

........................

My own final take: There was other feedback as well, but you get the picture. A lot of it goes back to teams who didn’t think the Leafs could make it work when they ended up with three players making $10+ million salaries in Mathews, Marner and John Tavares.

And it’s not just having three players making that much of the cap, but it’s the fact all three are forwards.

My initial feeling right now is to actually fight the urge to do something too drastic. That there’s so much risk in doing something you’re going to regret. I don’t think you win a Marner trade, for instance.

I go back to how long it took Alex Ovechkin and the Washington Capitals to finally get out of the second round and ultimately win the Cup. He was 32 when it happened.

The Lightning came under the Steve Yzerman/Julien BriseBois regime in 2010 and didn’t win the Cup until 2020.

I know Leafs fans don’t want to hear that. It’s been 17 years and counting now since they won a playoff series. Patience is running thin for a fan base that’s been kicked in the teeth for too long.

But the real question is how patient ownership is still willing to be.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

LeBrun: What rival NHL executives are saying about how to fix the Maple Leafs - The Athletic

I solicited insight from rival NHL team executives in the aftermath of the Leafs’ collapse. And I can tell you they did so while having tremendous respect for the Leafs’ management group but understanding that it’s a business and GM Kyle Dubas and his group have to learn from this latest setback.

Or, not overreact.

As you will see, it’s not a uniform reaction.

Before I get to it, though, a thought of my own. I think what’s going to be most interesting is how the MLSE Board of Directors react to this setback. My sense is that the patience/status quo option is not going to be a welcome answer for the owners. Not when MLSE is dolling out millions in July 1 signing bonuses to some of these players and still paying Mike Babcock $5.875 million through June 2023 not to coach the Leafs.

While it may be that staying patient and believing in the Leafs’ core and not overreacting is actually the route to go hockey-wise, I’m not sure the people in suits at MLSE are going to go for that business-wise.

But I certainly could be wrong.

My point is that before you get into the hockey part of all this, you have to start at the very top and work your way down.

This will be the toughest offseason of Brendan Shanahan’s seven-year term as Leafs president. He’s done wonders for the culture of the franchise and how things get done now, a lot of credit to him for that. But it’s a results-oriented business.

......................

Team executive No. 3: Trade one of the big pieces up front for D/G help. All offense hasn’t worked.

I don’t think Kyle or Sheldon (Keefe) should lose their jobs. But I do think someone has to tell them that the plan hasn’t worked. You got to change things. Trade one of those (big salary) guys.

You already had $5 million in your budget allocated to a goalie which will be freed up.

Team executive No. 4: Step 1: Complete a brutally honest philosophical self assessment.

If you speak to senior people they will quietly tell you they have concerns about the Leafs’ philosophy of: Focusing only on high octane offense with the belief that if you outscore everyone you will win. It seems they would rather beat you 6-5 than 2-1 and we all know that’s not how you succeed in the playoffs. And, reduce their myopic obsession with analytics as being the defacto decision maker. Analytics are important but should only be one of several criteria evaluated in every decision. Both publicly and privately people know that analytics has a disproportionate influence and makes all the player personnel decisions.

Step 2: A complete re-think of their team-building strategy. Their approach has been to collect the highest profile, high-octane offensive players possible and assemble them at the top of the roster. This is both disruptive from a team chemistry perspective and a salary cap management perspective.

From there, they seek out players who they can wedge into their limited cap space to fill out the roster. This results in is a top-heavy lineup with little to no balance from a cap space perspective, a team make up perspective and a competitive perspective. They seem to view the non core players as completely interchangeable parts and we all know that isn’t reality when building a team capable of going deep in the playoffs and winning a Stanley Cup.

Step 3: They need to redistribute some of their cap space differently throughout their lineup. This will provide greater levels of roster stability, overall depth and a much better, balanced team built for playoff competitiveness.

Step 4: Assuming they reduce their dependency on analytics, they need to stop trading draft picks. Their best players were drafted by the Leafs (albeit they were all high picks) and in order to provide a long term, competitive team, they need to ensure they have a steady flow of young players into the organization.

It will take courage to do this because it flies in the face of much of what they have publicly proclaimed they believe in. However, their beliefs have not rendered the desired results and true leadership will have the balls to admit as much and alter their approach. You know the old saying “No guts, no glory.”

........................

My own final take: There was other feedback as well, but you get the picture. A lot of it goes back to teams who didn’t think the Leafs could make it work when they ended up with three players making $10+ million salaries in Mathews, Marner and John Tavares.

And it’s not just having three players making that much of the cap, but it’s the fact all three are forwards.

My initial feeling right now is to actually fight the urge to do something too drastic. That there’s so much risk in doing something you’re going to regret. I don’t think you win a Marner trade, for instance.

I go back to how long it took Alex Ovechkin and the Washington Capitals to finally get out of the second round and ultimately win the Cup. He was 32 when it happened.

The Lightning came under the Steve Yzerman/Julien BriseBois regime in 2010 and didn’t win the Cup until 2020.

I know Leafs fans don’t want to hear that. It’s been 17 years and counting now since they won a playoff series. Patience is running thin for a fan base that’s been kicked in the teeth for too long.

But the real question is how patient ownership is still willing to be.

I do find it funny that scoring is probably the main reason we lost this year (and one last year too, although not nearly as prevalent as this year) yet people think that the problem is that we are spending too much on forwards. If anything, shouldn't we be spending more money on forwards?

The cap allocation structure would be more of a concern if our depth was hurting us. Our depth has been really good. We have been able to build a really strong defense too. It's just the fact that one of those big money forwards (Marner) is seriously struggling to perform up to the standards put at his feet and that is obviously not going to work if we want to win. Doesn't mean we shouldn't be paying big money to a core forward, it just means it should not be Marner.

 

[Dreakmur]

LeBrun: What rival NHL executives are saying about how to fix the Maple Leafs - The Athletic

I solicited insight from rival NHL team executives in the aftermath of the Leafs’ collapse. And I can tell you they did so while having tremendous respect for the Leafs’ management group but understanding that it’s a business and GM Kyle Dubas and his group have to learn from this latest setback.

Or, not overreact.

As you will see, it’s not a uniform reaction.

Before I get to it, though, a thought of my own. I think what’s going to be most interesting is how the MLSE Board of Directors react to this setback. My sense is that the patience/status quo option is not going to be a welcome answer for the owners. Not when MLSE is dolling out millions in July 1 signing bonuses to some of these players and still paying Mike Babcock $5.875 million through June 2023 not to coach the Leafs.

While it may be that staying patient and believing in the Leafs’ core and not overreacting is actually the route to go hockey-wise, I’m not sure the people in suits at MLSE are going to go for that business-wise.

But I certainly could be wrong.

My point is that before you get into the hockey part of all this, you have to start at the very top and work your way down.

This will be the toughest offseason of Brendan Shanahan’s seven-year term as Leafs president. He’s done wonders for the culture of the franchise and how things get done now, a lot of credit to him for that. But it’s a results-oriented business.

......................

Team executive No. 3: Trade one of the big pieces up front for D/G help. All offense hasn’t worked.

I don’t think Kyle or Sheldon (Keefe) should lose their jobs. But I do think someone has to tell them that the plan hasn’t worked. You got to change things. Trade one of those (big salary) guys.

You already had $5 million in your budget allocated to a goalie which will be freed up.

Team executive No. 4: Step 1: Complete a brutally honest philosophical self assessment.

If you speak to senior people they will quietly tell you they have concerns about the Leafs’ philosophy of: Focusing only on high octane offense with the belief that if you outscore everyone you will win. It seems they would rather beat you 6-5 than 2-1 and we all know that’s not how you succeed in the playoffs. And, reduce their myopic obsession with analytics as being the defacto decision maker. Analytics are important but should only be one of several criteria evaluated in every decision. Both publicly and privately people know that analytics has a disproportionate influence and makes all the player personnel decisions.

Step 2: A complete re-think of their team-building strategy. Their approach has been to collect the highest profile, high-octane offensive players possible and assemble them at the top of the roster. This is both disruptive from a team chemistry perspective and a salary cap management perspective.

From there, they seek out players who they can wedge into their limited cap space to fill out the roster. This results in is a top-heavy lineup with little to no balance from a cap space perspective, a team make up perspective and a competitive perspective. They seem to view the non core players as completely interchangeable parts and we all know that isn’t reality when building a team capable of going deep in the playoffs and winning a Stanley Cup.

Step 3: They need to redistribute some of their cap space differently throughout their lineup. This will provide greater levels of roster stability, overall depth and a much better, balanced team built for playoff competitiveness.

Step 4: Assuming they reduce their dependency on analytics, they need to stop trading draft picks. Their best players were drafted by the Leafs (albeit they were all high picks) and in order to provide a long term, competitive team, they need to ensure they have a steady flow of young players into the organization.

It will take courage to do this because it flies in the face of much of what they have publicly proclaimed they believe in. However, their beliefs have not rendered the desired results and true leadership will have the balls to admit as much and alter their approach. You know the old saying “No guts, no glory.”

........................

My own final take: There was other feedback as well, but you get the picture. A lot of it goes back to teams who didn’t think the Leafs could make it work when they ended up with three players making $10+ million salaries in Mathews, Marner and John Tavares.

And it’s not just having three players making that much of the cap, but it’s the fact all three are forwards.

My initial feeling right now is to actually fight the urge to do something too drastic. That there’s so much risk in doing something you’re going to regret. I don’t think you win a Marner trade, for instance.

I go back to how long it took Alex Ovechkin and the Washington Capitals to finally get out of the second round and ultimately win the Cup. He was 32 when it happened.

The Lightning came under the Steve Yzerman/Julien BriseBois regime in 2010 and didn’t win the Cup until 2020.

I know Leafs fans don’t want to hear that. It’s been 17 years and counting now since they won a playoff series. Patience is running thin for a fan base that’s been kicked in the teeth for too long.

But the real question is how patient ownership is still willing to be.

The question should be asked, what does it actually mean to “win a Marner trade”.

Are you going to get a player who is as good? No. Does that mean you lose the deal?

I think if you make the team better, you won the trade. Opening cap space should be considered an asset.

 

[ryno23]

LeBrun: What rival NHL executives are saying about how to fix the Maple Leafs - The Athletic

I solicited insight from rival NHL team executives in the aftermath of the Leafs’ collapse. And I can tell you they did so while having tremendous respect for the Leafs’ management group but understanding that it’s a business and GM Kyle Dubas and his group have to learn from this latest setback.

Or, not overreact.

As you will see, it’s not a uniform reaction.

Before I get to it, though, a thought of my own. I think what’s going to be most interesting is how the MLSE Board of Directors react to this setback. My sense is that the patience/status quo option is not going to be a welcome answer for the owners. Not when MLSE is dolling out millions in July 1 signing bonuses to some of these players and still paying Mike Babcock $5.875 million through June 2023 not to coach the Leafs.

While it may be that staying patient and believing in the Leafs’ core and not overreacting is actually the route to go hockey-wise, I’m not sure the people in suits at MLSE are going to go for that business-wise.

But I certainly could be wrong.

My point is that before you get into the hockey part of all this, you have to start at the very top and work your way down.

This will be the toughest offseason of Brendan Shanahan’s seven-year term as Leafs president. He’s done wonders for the culture of the franchise and how things get done now, a lot of credit to him for that. But it’s a results-oriented business.

......................

Team executive No. 3: Trade one of the big pieces up front for D/G help. All offense hasn’t worked.

I don’t think Kyle or Sheldon (Keefe) should lose their jobs. But I do think someone has to tell them that the plan hasn’t worked. You got to change things. Trade one of those (big salary) guys.

You already had $5 million in your budget allocated to a goalie which will be freed up.

Team executive No. 4: Step 1: Complete a brutally honest philosophical self assessment.

If you speak to senior people they will quietly tell you they have concerns about the Leafs’ philosophy of: Focusing only on high octane offense with the belief that if you outscore everyone you will win. It seems they would rather beat you 6-5 than 2-1 and we all know that’s not how you succeed in the playoffs. And, reduce their myopic obsession with analytics as being the defacto decision maker. Analytics are important but should only be one of several criteria evaluated in every decision. Both publicly and privately people know that analytics has a disproportionate influence and makes all the player personnel decisions.

Step 2: A complete re-think of their team-building strategy. Their approach has been to collect the highest profile, high-octane offensive players possible and assemble them at the top of the roster. This is both disruptive from a team chemistry perspective and a salary cap management perspective.

From there, they seek out players who they can wedge into their limited cap space to fill out the roster. This results in is a top-heavy lineup with little to no balance from a cap space perspective, a team make up perspective and a competitive perspective. They seem to view the non core players as completely interchangeable parts and we all know that isn’t reality when building a team capable of going deep in the playoffs and winning a Stanley Cup.

Step 3: They need to redistribute some of their cap space differently throughout their lineup. This will provide greater levels of roster stability, overall depth and a much better, balanced team built for playoff competitiveness.

Step 4: Assuming they reduce their dependency on analytics, they need to stop trading draft picks. Their best players were drafted by the Leafs (albeit they were all high picks) and in order to provide a long term, competitive team, they need to ensure they have a steady flow of young players into the organization.

It will take courage to do this because it flies in the face of much of what they have publicly proclaimed they believe in. However, their beliefs have not rendered the desired results and true leadership will have the balls to admit as much and alter their approach. You know the old saying “No guts, no glory.”

........................

My own final take: There was other feedback as well, but you get the picture. A lot of it goes back to teams who didn’t think the Leafs could make it work when they ended up with three players making $10+ million salaries in Mathews, Marner and John Tavares.

And it’s not just having three players making that much of the cap, but it’s the fact all three are forwards.

My initial feeling right now is to actually fight the urge to do something too drastic. That there’s so much risk in doing something you’re going to regret. I don’t think you win a Marner trade, for instance.

I go back to how long it took Alex Ovechkin and the Washington Capitals to finally get out of the second round and ultimately win the Cup. He was 32 when it happened.

The Lightning came under the Steve Yzerman/Julien BriseBois regime in 2010 and didn’t win the Cup until 2020.

I know Leafs fans don’t want to hear that. It’s been 17 years and counting now since they won a playoff series. Patience is running thin for a fan base that’s been kicked in the teeth for too long.

But the real question is how patient ownership is still willing to be.

This is such a bullshit article by Lebrun.

So who are these excecs? Cause if it was any team that didn't make the playoffs they can go F off they didn't make the playoffs.

Is it Holland cause he is one to talk with 2 big salaries?

This is simply Lebrun with 5 opinions and using "NHL exec" to hid his opinions.

 

[Gabriel426]

I do find it funny that scoring is probably the main reason we lost this year (and one last year too, although not nearly as prevalent as this year) yet people think that the problem is that we are spending too much on forwards. If anything, shouldn't we be spending more money on forwards?

The cap allocation structure would be more of a concern if our depth was hurting us. Our depth has been really good. We have been able to build a really strong defense too. It's just the fact that one of those big money forwards (Marner) is seriously struggling to perform up to the standards put at his feet and that is obviously not going to work if we want to win. Doesn't mean we shouldn't be paying big money to a core forward, it just means it should not be Marner.

Beside getting a Dman and Goalie, I agree with the rest of it.
It was mention that there need to re assess the team and use less analytics while also admitting that their vision is not working.
If Habs is the only team since 10mil plus contract to advance to the second round for the past 5-6yrs or so, having three of them won’t work. The moment Toews, Kane and Kopitar got paid 10mil a year their team either missed the playoffs or couldn’t past the first round and I think the Hawks was the reigning Champs the year before Toews and Kane started receiving 10mil paycheque and their bump were from 7.5mil to 10.5mil.
Marner is a start but it is still not a guarantee that Leafs will win a round or two, they might even be worse. Once thing I took from that is TB, it took Yzerman a long time to get everything right, such as drafting a 1G, hitting big in mid round picks-Cirilli and Point, not afraid of trading players, and taking a tough stance in resigning its stars. I just don’t think Dubas can do that. It is really playoffs series round or bust, bc I don’t think Dubas can pull a Bennings where he comes out and say we will be competitive in two years BS.

 

[Gabriel426]

The question should be asked, what does it actually mean to “win a Marner trade”.

Are you going to get a player who is as good? No. Does that mean you lose the deal?

I think if you make the team better, you won the trade. Opening cap space should be considered an asset.

Winning the Marner trade will be tricky bc unless the return package is pure GOLD, like a young Vas and Kuch or Point, we just won’t know. Having cap space will help but you are still gambling on UFAs.
Like I said in another post, trading Marner is tricky but it needs to be done to make the team better.

 

[Dreakmur]

Winning the Marner trade will be tricky bc unless the return package is pure GOLD, like a young Vas and Kuch or Point, we just won’t know. Having cap space will help but you are still gambling on UFAs.
Like I said in another post, trading Marner is tricky but it needs to be done to make the team better.

I’m not sure there are even may teams that would want him at the cap hit.

 

[Gabriel426]

I’m not sure there are even may teams that would want him at the cap hit.

I think his cap hit is more attractive than people think due to being low in real salary.
Just look at both Subban trades, GMs will make it happen regardless of cap.

 

[I am Canadian]

Listening to the Steve Dangle Podcast,they are discussing dealing Rielly and replacing with Sandin.

Would open up space to sign Hyman to a 4x4.5M, backup goalie for 2M and would leave around 4-5M for a top 6 forward after re-upping Bogosian, Spezza.

I really don't think this adds much, but grasping at straws for actual changes without moving Marner or Nylander. I would be open for dealing Marner for the right deal.

 

[Cor]

The question should be asked, what does it actually mean to “win a Marner trade”.

Are you going to get a player who is as good? No. Does that mean you lose the deal?

I think if you make the team better, you won the trade. Opening cap space should be considered an asset.

My opinion is that if we trade Nazem Kadri, it’ll be looked at like the Kadri deal.

People will most likely hate the deal initially. However over time, it’ll be better.

With the Kadri deal, we eventually turned his cap space into TJ Brodie (the guy we tried to trade Kadri for in the first place), and got Alex Kerfoot out of the deal, who really proved himself this year. Meanwhile, Kadri did the exact same crap we traded him for in the first place, again, because he’s a head case.

So initial deal = not great, but as of now, looking full picture, it’s worked out for us.

 

[Legion34]

Not to be a broken record. But I do think eventually marner will be the one to go. Not because of talent. His family seems to be way to thin skinned and it affects him. The social media ridiculousness aside.

-dad was selling marner paraphernalia in year 1
-dad wanted him out in year 2
-the agent contract fiasco
-the agent filling attacking people on social media.

I think if we do it should pull bandaid off now

1.) eichel could be had. Friends with Matty but injury questions.

2.) tkachuk plus Anderson could work.

3.) trade for seth Jones plus.

4.) heiskanen 1 for 1 but not sure if Dallas
Does that.

5.) would LA give up prospects? Would we go
For a futures package?

6,) would laf be enough from NYR?

My only marner options

 

[Trapper]

This is such a bullshit article by Lebrun.

So who are these excecs? Cause if it was any team that didn't make the playoffs they can go F off they didn't make the playoffs.

Is it Holland cause he is one to talk with 2 big salaries?

This is simply Lebrun with 5 opinions and using "NHL exec" to hid his opinions.

I don’t know who the execs are but we’ve been saying these things on this board long before this article came out.

 

[Cor]

Listening to the SDP, and Jesse Blake says something brilliant. The Raptors build to a championship should show us the regular season means nothing. Demar’s regular seasons meant nothing because the dude got drilled every year in the playoffs, and so Masai had to trade him because at some point, after so many failures, you need to do something

It’s not just the last 4 years, for the Leafs here, not including Washington which we weren’t even expected to make the playoffs anyway.

How many games to close out one series did they have? 1 against Boston in 2018. 2 against Boston in 2019. 1 last year. 3 this year.

7 games over the last 4 years. And most of those they lay EGGS. Zero compete.

These guys are 24/25 now. They aren’t rookies anymore. They have had their big contracts for a couple years now.

People thought Kadri was the DeMar moment? Oh no. Kadri was JV. Marner will be the DeMar trade.

 

[mydnyte]

This is such a bullshit article by Lebrun.

So who are these excecs? Cause if it was any team that didn't make the playoffs they can go F off they didn't make the playoffs.

Is it Holland cause he is one to talk with 2 big salaries?

This is simply Lebrun with 5 opinions and using "NHL exec" to hid his opinions.

'anonymous' sources are full of it, or are talking about the run and gun Leafs of years ago.
if anything, we played too conservative at the expense of our offense.

 

[sparxx87]

Listening to the Steve Dangle Podcast,they are discussing dealing Rielly and replacing with Sandin.

Would open up space to sign Hyman to a 4x4.5M, backup goalie for 2M and would leave around 4-5M for a top 6 forward after re-upping Bogosian, Spezza.

I really don't think this adds much, but grasping at straws for actual changes without moving Marner or Nylander. I would be open for dealing Marner for the right deal.

Not surprised. Dangle is a fool and most often has absolutely no idea what he’s talking about.

Sandin is a long way from an NHL top 4 d man. We just watched him hurt his team far more than he helped them against Montréal despite being mostly sheltered and used in an offensive role.

Many have said it but it’s really hard for a d man to play good defense in the NHL when they’re a below average skater and don’t have physical size or strength to compensate.

I like Sandin, but he hasn’t even proven he’s a full time NHL’er, never mind someone who can fill Morgan Rielly’s shoes.

 

[4thline]

Not surprised. Dangle is a fool and most often has absolutely no idea what he’s talking about.

Sandin is a long way from an NHL top 4 d man. We just watched him hurt his team far more than he helped them against Montréal despite being mostly sheltered and used in an offensive role.

Many have said it but it’s really hard for a d man to play good defense in the NHL when they’re a below average skater and don’t have physical size or strength to compensate.

I like Sandin, but he hasn’t even proven he’s a full time NHL’er, never mind someone who can fill Morgan Rielly’s shoes.

The only way Sandin can be looked at as a Mo replacement is if we were looking at a "Rielly by committee" approach that deconstructs what he brings to the team. ie. Sandin to be the PP QP and extra man/ offensive situation guy while playing sheltered and being mentored by Bogo and someone else brought in to be the minute muncher.

The initial counter to that is you lose Rielly's even strength offence, but Muzzin/Holl got similar offensive results in harder minutes.

I think it could work with the right steady top 4 guy with a good first pass. The downside is that it's a short term move that has us relying heavily on Sandin's progression long term. If he stagnates we get barren awfully quickly on the left side.

 

[Legion34]

Looks like Hyman might be gone. I’m actually ok with it.......I don’t think giving 5 x 5 to a 29 year old with 2 knee injuries is a great idea in a flat cap world. I would like a change up. But if there isn’t one then ultimately dubas has tons of options on forwards for 3.5 million and under

have a core of.

marner. Matthews xxxxxx
Robertson. Tavares. Nylander
Xxxxx. Xxxxxx. Miky
Xxxxx. Brooks. Spezza.

rielly. Brodie
Muzz. Holl.
Sandin. Lilly.

Campbell
3 million backup.

That leaves 13.5 million for 1 and 4 forwards.
If we could get Bogo back that would be 12.5

you have
-granlund
-haula
-goodrow
-Coleman
-martinook
-McGinn
-Tatar
-foligno.
-nash
-gally

to pick from. Just off the top of my head. There are lots of options to move around the core in tbr flat cap. Although I still think a marner trade is inevitable

 

[sparxx87]

The only way Sandin can be looked at as a Mo replacement is if we were looking at a "Rielly" by committee approach that deconstructs what he brings to the team. ie. Sandin to be the PP QP and extra man/ offensive situation guy while playing sheltered and being mentored by Bogo and someone else brought in to be the minute muncher.

The initial counter to that is you lose Rielly's even strength offence, but Muzzin/Holl got similar offensive results in harder minutes.

I think it could work with the right steady top 4 guy with a good first pass. The downside is that it's a short term move that has us relying heavily on Sandin's progression long term. If he stagnates we get barren awfully quickly on the left side.

Haven’t even looked at the UFA class but shuffling/changing the blueline might be the only way to really redistribute money if they’re not moving any of the 4 forwards.

I think Rielly is pretty under appreciated by this fanbase. People seem to overlook all the good he does and focus solely on mistakes not realizing that across the league, the top d that move and make plays with the puck most also commit the most turnovers and mistakes.

The balance for me with Rielly has always been a big net positive and I think they’ll really miss him if/when he’s gone.

 

[Cor]

Not surprised. Dangle is a fool and most often has absolutely no idea what he’s talking about.

Sandin is a long way from an NHL top 4 d man. We just watched him hurt his team far more than he helped them against Montréal despite being mostly sheltered and used in an offensive role.

Many have said it but it’s really hard for a d man to play good defense in the NHL when they’re a below average skater and don’t have physical size or strength to compensate.

I like Sandin, but he hasn’t even proven he’s a full time NHL’er, never mind someone who can fill Morgan Rielly’s shoes.

FYI, OP left out a lot of context.

Dangle was speaking in regards that Rielly may need to be moved since his contract is up at the end of next season and unless something drastic happens we won’t be able to keep him, this point coming off a discussion of how Hyman leaving for nothing will be heart breaking.

It was another 20 minutes later where Jesse Blake, not Dangle, in a discussion of young players coming in, and that Sandin will be a full timer next year, made mention that Sandin can help fill the Rielly role if Rielly is indeed moved out. Likely in the same context as some here speak to, of how Sandin can be our PP1 guy. Not necessarily filling the Even Strength role.

So it wasn’t a “trade Morgan Rielly because Sandin is just as good!” Thing

 

[sparxx87]

FYI, OP left out a lot of context.

Dangle was speaking in regards that Rielly may need to be moved since his contract is up at the end of next season and unless something drastic happens we won’t be able to keep him, this point coming off a discussion of how Hyman leaving for nothing will be heart breaking.

It was another 20 minutes later where Jesse Blake, not Dangle, in a discussion of young players coming in, and that Sandin will be a full timer next year, made mention that Sandin can help fill the Rielly role if Rielly is indeed moved out. Likely in the same context as some here speak to, of how Sandin can be our PP1 guy. Not necessarily filling the Even Strength role.

So it wasn’t a “trade Morgan Rielly because Sandin is just as good!” Thing

Context is important, thanks!

Did they mention that keeping these core players is only in question because of the poor internal cap structure?

Does Dangle still endorse Dubas?

 

[sxvnert]

Does Dangle still endorse Dubas?

The apologists will defend Dubas until their last dying breath. While this past disaster cant completely be pinned on him, the work done this summer to fix the real problems will.

Looks like Hyman might be gone. I’m actually ok with it.......I don’t think giving 5 x 5 to a 29 year old with 2 knee injuries is a great idea in a flat cap world. I would like a change up. But if there isn’t one then ultimately dubas has tons of options on forwards for 3.5 million and under

It will be a tough pill to swallow watching him walk for nothing but this is on Dubas for drafting 5'8 euros year after year leaving no backup in place. He did have an opportunity to pick up Bennett instead of Foligno though.

 

[horner]

I do find it funny that scoring is probably the main reason we lost this year (and one last year too, although not nearly as prevalent as this year) yet people think that the problem is that we are spending too much on forwards. If anything, shouldn't we be spending more money on forwards?

The cap allocation structure would be more of a concern if our depth was hurting us. Our depth has been really good. We have been able to build a really strong defense too. It's just the fact that one of those big money forwards (Marner) is seriously struggling to perform up to the standards put at his feet and that is obviously not going to work if we want to win. Doesn't mean we shouldn't be paying big money to a core forward, it just means it should not be Marner.

I agree Marner sucked but man to leave Mathews out if the conversation is where you loss me .
They both sucked ass.

 

[sparxx87]

Listening to the SDP, and Jesse Blake says something brilliant. The Raptors build to a championship should show us the regular season means nothing. Demar’s regular seasons meant nothing because the dude got drilled every year in the playoffs, and so Masai had to trade him because at some point, after so many failures, you need to do something

It’s not just the last 4 years, for the Leafs here, not including Washington which we weren’t even expected to make the playoffs anyway.

How many games to close out one series did they have? 1 against Boston in 2018. 2 against Boston in 2019. 1 last year. 3 this year.

7 games over the last 4 years. And most of those they lay EGGS. Zero compete.

These guys are 24/25 now. They aren’t rookies anymore. They have had their big contracts for a couple years now.

People thought Kadri was the DeMar moment? Oh no. Kadri was JV. Marner will be the DeMar trade.

Raptors won several playoff rounds including a trip to the conference finals but kept running into an all time great player on an all time great run with LeBron James and 9 straight finals appearances.

Leafs are losing to the worst team in the playoffs, or missing them altogether after losing in a play in where they were the much more talented team in both instances. 5 straight first round (or less) exits and 0-8 in games with a chance to close.

Raptors and Leafs share a building but the similarities end there. They couldn’t be more different from top to bottom.