Trades & Free Agency Thread: Off-season Edition

[conFABulator]

Honestly i not sure Geekie is a really player than Holmberg ( for me hes overrated) and anyway Geekie looking more like a Boston top 6 foward rhan a bottom 6. Geekie scored 41% of his pts playing with Pastrnak ( team high at 5v5 and on pp)... Not really what i called a bottom 6 player. top boston 6 right now without any change would be pastrnak, marchand, lindholm, coyle, zacha and Geekie.

So right now Boston bottom 6 is frederick, poitras, brazeau, beecher, jones, kastelic ( from dailyfaceoff) vs holmberg, mcmann, jarnkrok, kampf, dewar, reaves... sorry you cant say Boston bottom 6 is better when basically 83% of Boston bottom 6 would struggling to get a spot in the leafs line up...

Thanks for this. It's insightful and seems accurate. I am not sure what discussion I am joining here and don't want to take it where it wasn't going, but here is my question...

Shouldn't the Leafs try to build a top nine this year? If one of our playoff performance gaps is lack of depth scoring shouldn't we aim for three scoring lines and two PP units. Shouldn't we be focused on creating three as scoring lines with one of the core four on each of them.

We choose nine from Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares, Domi, Knies, McMann, Holmberg, Jarnkrok, Robertson, Cowan, Grebenkin, Minten and Steeves. That a 14 guys and keeps Kampf, Dewar and Reaves on a low minute fourth line...possibly swap Reaves out for Jarnkrok or Holmberg if they don't crack the top nine and we have a useful fourth line with 3 PKers on it.

Knies Matthews Domi
Robertson Holmberg Nylander
McMann Tavares Marner

Something like this? Maybe no one gets 69 goals this year but 7 or 8 get 20+, maybe even two fifty goal+ guys. If Nylander can play C it opens up a lot more possibilities too.

Isn't this what balance looks like?

 

[conFABulator]

I poured through the Athletic's top 200 U23 player rankings and one center stood out to me as a long-term fit for the Leafs that could be available: Sillinger.

Sillinger was ranked 79th - 1 behind Zary and 1 ahead of Perfetti. What stood out to me about Sillinger's profile was the emphasis on physicality.

"Tier: Middle of the lineup player

Skating: Below NHL average
Puck skills: Above NHL average
Hockey sense: NHL average
Compete: High-end

Sillinger had a productive season in the NHL despite not getting a ton of power-play time for Columbus. Sillinger is a skilled center who can provide offense, but what makes him truly appealing is his physical play. He plays with an edge and isn't afraid to throw around his body. He has a scoring touch, even if the natural offense in his game is a minor question in terms of whether he'll be a big-time scorer who makes a ton of plays. His foot speed is also not great. He is a player coaches will want to play a lot due to his compete, but as a second, I don't know if I see more than a 3C on a contender or a 2C on a bottom feeder."

Sillinger may be the odd man out in Columbus with them drafting Lindstrom. He is their 3rd ranked U23 center behind Fantilli and Lindstrom. He ranks behind Johnson who they no longer count as a C. CBJ just signed Monahan who will be a long-term C there. Jenner will most likely retire there at this point and play 3C until then. Voronkov centered their best line this year. Kuraly is a better fit as 4C. Sillinger is running out of room on the roster.

He turned 21 this May and has already played 220 NHL games. His results have been objectively poor. He has lost his minutes every single season. At 21 his career isn't a write-off because he continually loses his minutes. He has plenty of time to mature and he could probably benefit from stronger linemates (his most common line mates were Texier and Marchenko). Sillinger will be 21 for the entirety of the next NHL season, the same age Knies was this season.

I think he would be an ideal buy-low candidate because of his physical drive. Physical point producing C's are very rare in the NHL and the Leafs have been looking for one since Kadri left.

I could see him being moved for an early 2nd+ or a late 1st from a contender. The Leafs don't really have either of those assets but I could see them putting together a package of Carolina's 2nd and Florida's 2nd once the Robertson to Carolina move is finalized or even Robertson+FLA 2nd.

I would play him at 2/3C with either of Marner or Nylander on the wing.

Thanks, thorough and well thought out.

Sorry to condense it all down to one question. Is Sillinger better than Holmberg for us right now? Holmberg is a late bloomer and appears to have upside he might be unlocking. He has some chemistry with our top nine guys and could be a top 3C with Nylander or Marner on his line. He has produced the same ppg as Sillinger in fewer minutes per night, with linemates that aren't offensively gifted.

Knies Matthews Domi
Robertson Tavares Marner
McMann Holmberg Nylander

Those second and third line could contribute 150 goals.

 

[thusk]

Thanks for this. It's insightful and seems accurate. I am not sure what discussion I am joining here and don't want to take it where it wasn't going, but here is my question...

Shouldn't the Leafs try to build a top nine this year? If one of our playoff performance gaps is lack of depth scoring shouldn't we aim for three scoring lines and two PP units. Shouldn't we be focused on creating three as scoring lines with one of the core four on each of them.

We choose nine from Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares, Domi, Knies, McMann, Holmberg, Jarnkrok, Robertson, Cowan, Grebenkin, Minten and Steeves. That a 14 guys and keeps Kampf, Dewar and Reaves on a low minute fourth line...possibly swap Reaves out for Jarnkrok or Holmberg if they don't crack the top nine and we have a useful fourth line with 3 PKers on it.

Knies Matthews Domi
Robertson Holmberg Nylander
McMann Tavares Marner

Something like this? Maybe no one gets 69 goals this year but 7 or 8 get 20+, maybe even two fifty goal+ guys. If Nylander can play C it opens up a lot more possibilities too.

Isn't this what balance looks like?

The point of discussion is team like exemple Boston are able to take any player and still get succes with their depht whatever whos playing there. Leafs whatever who are there, did we ever saw a bottom 6 being good under keefe? Its the same with the D, since Keefe is the leafs coach, leafs are amount the worst team from scoring coming from the D. So at the end, it's pretty hard to don't say than Keefe system didn't killed secondary scoring.

If Berube is able to simplify the offensive strategy, leafs will probably get more secondary scoring from bottom 6 AND D and the pressure will be less for core 4.

 

[Americanadian]

Thanks, thorough and well thought out.

Sorry to condense it all down to one question. Is Sillinger better than Holmberg for us right now? Holmberg is a late bloomer and appears to have upside he might be unlocking. He has some chemistry with our top nine guys and could be a top 3C with Nylander or Marner on his line. He has produced the same ppg as Sillinger in fewer minutes per night, with linemates that aren't offensively gifted.

Knies Matthews Domi
Robertson Tavares Marner
McMann Holmberg Nylander

Those second and third line could contribute 150 goals.

I worry about Holmberg’s offense. I believe in Nylander driving his own line but I don’t think he can create with McMann-Holmberg. Sillinger brings additional offense at the cost of defense. His upside is also much higher. There’s a good chance, at 25, that this is the best version of Holmberg.

 

[Americanadian]

Honestly i not sure Geekie is a really player than Holmberg ( for me hes overrated) and anyway Geekie looking more like a Boston top 6 foward rhan a bottom 6. Geekie scored 41% of his pts playing with Pastrnak ( team high at 5v5 and on pp)... Not really what i called a bottom 6 player. top boston 6 right now without any change would be pastrnak, marchand, lindholm, coyle, zacha and Geekie.

So right now Boston bottom 6 is frederick, poitras, brazeau, beecher, jones, kastelic ( from dailyfaceoff) vs holmberg, mcmann, jarnkrok, kampf, dewar, reaves... sorry you cant say Boston bottom 6 is better when basically 83% of Boston bottom 6 would struggling to get a spot in the leafs line up...

If I were to make two lines out of those 12 players it would probably be:

Frederic-Poitras-Jarnkrok
McMann-Dewar-Brazeau

I don’t think Boston’s bottom 6 is worse than Toronto’s.

 

[conFABulator]

I worry about Holmberg’s offense. I believe in Nylander driving his own line but I don’t think he can create with McMann-Holmberg. Sillinger brings additional offense at the cost of defense. His upside is also much higher. There’s a good chance, at 25, that this is the best version of Holmberg.

Yes, the offense is a wild card for Holmberg, but it is a chance worth taking, as an aside I am very big on this bring a year where we develop our own you and cheaper players.

We have seen flashes of skill and creativity form Holmberg, what we haven't seen is what he can do if he gets an opportunity for minutes with skilled linemates. His per minute production was pretty good last year and he never really got a chance, the numbers would show that given more ice time and better line mates and he could score 40 ES points next year. He is also pretty defensively sound.

If it doesn't work then we make a TDL move but I don't like us moving picks to fill a gap we may already have an in house solution for.

 

[Americanadian]

Yes, the offense is a wild card for Holmberg, but it is a chance worth taking, as an aside I am very big on this bring a year where we develop our own you and cheaper players.

We have seen flashes of skill and creativity form Holmberg, what we haven't seen is what he can do if he gets an opportunity for minutes with skilled linemates. His per minute production was pretty good last year and he never really got a chance, the numbers would show that given more ice time and better line mates and he could score 40 ES points next year. He is also pretty defensively sound.

If it doesn't work then we make a TDL move but I don't like us moving picks to fill a gap we may already have an in house solution for.

If you believe that Holmberg is a solution then I completely understand that line of thinking.

I am not yet convinced that he’s a solution on a scoring line. I’d be happy to have him prove me wrong.

 

[Legion34]

I don't think Iginla the son will be half the player his father was..........

A 300 goal middle weight fighter is still pretty good. I would take half of iggy

 

[conFABulator]

If you believe that Holmberg is a solution then I completely understand that line of thinking.

I am not yet convinced that he’s a solution on a scoring line. I’d be happy to have him prove me wrong.

I am not convinced of this at all, but I do think this is the year to see what we have with Knies, McMann, Holmberg, Robertson, Liljegren, Benoit and possibly Steeves.

Our future success depends on develop a next layer from within. Sillinger could fit the mold too, I don't love acquiring someone with so many questions when we have the above group and Cowan, Minten and Grebenkin.

 

[thusk]

If I were to make two lines out of those 12 players it would probably be:

Frederic-Poitras-Jarnkrok
McMann-Dewar-Brazeau

I don’t think Boston’s bottom 6 is worse than Toronto’s.

frederic yes...

Poitras didn't impress me at all and still have a lot to prove... Most of thing he did last year was against trash team

-Against playoff team averaging 0 goal/ game and 0,28 pts game ( 23 pts from 82 game)
-against non playoff team ... 0,26 goal/game and 0,48 pts/gam (47 from 82 gm)

Personally i taking Kampf ( i dont understand why dewar is in front of him at the same time...) all night long before Poitras and between holmberg and Poitras look more like a coin toss until at this moment ( but could certainly be a different story a half-season)

Brazeau the only player hes maybe better in the line up is Reaves... that's it

 

[thusk]

Yes, the offense is a wild card for Holmberg, but it is a chance worth taking, as an aside I am very big on this bring a year where we develop our own you and cheaper players.

We have seen flashes of skill and creativity form Holmberg, what we haven't seen is what he can do if he gets an opportunity for minutes with skilled linemates. His per minute production was pretty good last year and he never really got a chance, the numbers would show that given more ice time and better line mates and he could score 40 ES points next year. He is also pretty defensively sound.

If it doesn't work then we make a TDL move but I don't like us moving picks to fill a gap we may already have an in house solution for.

And like i said, simplify and get the D involve the game for bottom 6 will just help every player in the bottom 6 offensively. Keefe system was extremwley passive and it's pretty hard for a limited skill player to shine offensively playing 3v5 against player who at least as good than good

 

[tokyoite]

marner isnt draisatl period.
the former doesnt deserve a mega contract.

 

[Puckstuff]

You’d need prime Bob Gainey at 2C to make Nylander AND Robertson work.

Robertson and Nylander are both fast and good on the rush. They have worked well together. They just need a stable defensive minded playmaking C, and that's the opposite of Tavares who is more of a shoot first center who generates offense through the cycle.

Knies Matthews Domi - 80-90 goals
Robertson_____Nylander - 70-80 goals
McMann Tavares Marner - 70-80 goals

 

[TMLAM34]

Sillinger would be a perfect addition. Robertson, Holmberg and a 2nd?

Knies - Matthews - Domi
Grebenkin - Tavares - Marner
McMann - Sillinger - Nylander
Dewar - Kampf - Jarnkrok
Reaves

 

[notdoneyet]

Sillinger would be a perfect addition. Robertson, Holmberg and a 2nd?

Knies - Matthews - Domi
Grebenkin - Tavares - Marner
McMann - Sillinger - Nylander
Dewar - Kampf - Jarnkrok
Reaves

5.4 million on a fourth line isn’t where we should be investing our cap.
IMHO both Jarnkrok and kampf are redundant
On our team.
They will only get higher in the lineup in case of injury and for their price we can plug in some Marlies to help with those injuries.

 

[-DeMo-]

Sillinger would be a perfect addition. Robertson, Holmberg and a 2nd?

Knies - Matthews - Domi
Grebenkin - Tavares - Marner
McMann - Sillinger - Nylander
Dewar - Kampf - Jarnkrok
Reaves

with the passing of Gaudreau(RIP) and trading away Laine I don't see that columbus team being very good at all, and will probaby be 3-4 years away from competing, i don't see why they would move a 21 year old center at this point unless he has asked to be move, and nothing in that offer really helps them.

with the recent events imo it's more likely someone like Jenner is available now or maybe not today but I would think 100% at the deadline assuming he's healthy.

 

[OVO16]

Our forward group is butter cup soft, now that I'm looking at it.

I know bertuzzi wasn't a known "hitter" per say but his gritty presence on the top 6 was nice to have

 

[ACC1224]

Our forward group is butter cup soft, now that I'm looking at it.

I know bertuzzi wasn't a known "hitter" per say but his gritty presence on the top 6 was nice to have

I think we're going to see more grit from Knies this season. He's going to turn into a legit old school power forward.

 

[SprDaVE]

Our forward group is butter cup soft, now that I'm looking at it.

I know bertuzzi wasn't a known "hitter" per say but his gritty presence on the top 6 was nice to have

Knies and McMann are not really "soft" and provide the same level of greasiness as Bertuzzi. Not sure he was the line between soft and not.

 

[Fogelhund]

with the passing of Gaudreau(RIP) and trading away Laine I don't see that columbus team being very good at all, and will probaby be 3-4 years away from competing, i don't see why they would move a 21 year old center at this point unless he has asked to be move, and nothing in that offer really helps them.

with the recent events imo it's more likely someone like Jenner is available now or maybe not today but I would think 100% at the deadline assuming he's healthy.

Jenner is the heart of that team... unless he asks out, I don't see them moving on from him. He'd be a really nice, but costly 3C to add to this team. Given JT's decline now, and into the future, I don't know if obtaining a 3C is the right direction, though I do like Jenner's game a lot. He also plays a rugged game, and hasn't played a full season in years. At 30, that isn't a situation that is going to get much better.

The situation there, is that they now have Monahan, Jenner, Voronokov, Sillinger, Johnson and Fantilli looking for reps at C... unless some of them end up as wingers full time. If any of these players desire to play C, and get played at wing, they may ask out...

With the very unfortunate loss of Gaudreau, if they were looking to make a move, it is more likely they would be looking at a Marner type acquisition. They have $23 million in cap room right now, and are actually BELOW the cap floor. I would imagine that they would be granted a special exemption though, given the situation. I'm not going to pretend to put together a trade on this one... it's tricky for sure, though we know Jiricek was frustrated with his usage, and could be someone to ask for.

Our forward group is butter cup soft, now that I'm looking at it.

I know bertuzzi wasn't a known "hitter" per say but his gritty presence on the top 6 was nice to have

It depends on who ends up in our top 6. Knies, McMann, Tavares all had more hits than Bertuzzi last year. Matthews about the same number.

 

[ULF_55]

Knies and McMann are not really "soft" and provide the same level of greasiness as Bertuzzi. Not sure he was the line between soft and not.

Did Bertuzzi really have a truly snotty reputation, or was that wishful thinking?

I think they kept the better snot.

 

[SprDaVE]

Did Bertuzzi really have a truly snotty reputation, or was that wishful thinking?

I think they kept the better snot.

He was involved in scrums and whatever but he was on his ass everytime he was touched around the net. He could not stay on his skates. I wouldn't call him soft because he was blocking shots and getting involved but hardly a tough player.

His name I think puts some subconscious toughness attached to his name. If he was Joe Nylander not sure he'd be seen the same.

 

[ULF_55]

He was involved in scrums and whatever but he was on his ass everytime he was touched around the net. He could not stay on his skates. I wouldn't call him soft because he was blocking shots and getting involved but hardly a tough player.

His name I think puts some subconscious toughness attached to his name. If he was Joe Nylander not sure he'd be seen the same.

Are you referring to Bertuzzi or Domi.

I wondered about the "Misc" stats for Bertuzzi so went there to see if there was support/evidence of ...

The stats aren't flattering to his "toughness / grit".

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

 

[Fogelhund]

Are you referring to Bertuzzi or Domi.

I wondered about the "Misc" stats for Bertuzzi so went there to see if there was support/evidence of ...

The stats aren't flattering to his "toughness / grit".

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

He was referring to Bertuzzi.

 

[SprDaVE]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1831340785280626977