Trades & Free Agency Thread: Off-season Edition

[Sypher04]

Interesting to hear Blake Coleman’s name out there as someone Brad has interest in. Not surprised he would obviously, given he signed the player in Calgary, but he had a much better year last year than I realized on a pretty bad Calgary team.

 

[LaPlante94]

An individual contract is not based on what round your team got to.

Chicago was plenty deep. He was just on a team that got PPs, in an era when PPs were handed out like candy, and he didn't have a brain dead coach.

A 20.6% bigger contract for 20.8% higher ES production, 25.5% higher PP production, plus PKing and an extra year seems more than reasonable.

Apparently nothing was taken into consideration for his contract negotiations except that 1 90 point season. 2 60 point seasons, no playoff success and no awards.


Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Nylander, Rielly over Toews, Kane, Sharp, Keith, Havlat. 1st 2 years he was in the league they got more PPs but their PP was never anything special and never went over 20%. He had Denis Savard as his coach for 1 season and had Quennville for 1 before signing his deal while we had Babcock. Saying he's a brain dead coach just because you don't like him doesn't make it true.

So now players get paid more because of just 5v5 production eh? Not total production? 6 points at 5v5 and 1 year got him that much more. Sounds like we had some great negotiators.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Apparently nothing was taken into consideration

That's obviously not true. We've just gone over a ton. You just don't like that it shows that the contract was perfectly reasonable compared to your chosen comparable.

1st 2 years he was in the league they got more PPs but their PP was never anything special

Yes, Marner was a better PP player.

So now players get paid more because of just 5v5 production eh?

I literally went over all 3 game states. A 20.6% bigger contract for 20.8% higher ES production, 25.5% higher PP production, plus PKing and an extra year.

 

[DougGilmour93]

A couple Marner trade ideas…
(Teams that were reportedly interested)
1
To Dallas … Marner
To Leafs … Marchment (cap reasons) + Stankoven + Harley (RFA)

2
To Utah…Marner
To Leafs…Crouse + McBain + Valimaki (cap reasons) + Lamoureux

Thoughts…

 

[ULF_55]

Interesting to hear Blake Coleman’s name out there as someone Brad has interest in. Not surprised he would obviously, given he signed the player in Calgary, but he had a much better year last year than I realized on a pretty bad Calgary team.

Jeez, this flashed before my eyes.

On this day in 2016, the Leafs trade Dion Phaneuf in blockbuster trade with Senators

On this day in 2016, the Toronto Maple Leafs pulled off a blockbuster...

theleafsnation.com

Flames traded for a top 6 center, and Stajan was on a 61 point pace.

There is your revenge of the Flames, trading Blake Coleman to the Leafs coming off a fluke 54 point season.

 

[LaPlante94]

That's obviously not true. We've just gone over a ton. You just don't like that it shows that the contract was perfectly reasonable compared to your chosen comparable.

Yes, Marner was a better PP player.

I literally went over all 3 game states. A 20.6% bigger contract for 20.8% higher ES production, 25.5% higher PP production, plus PKing and an extra year.

You say it's not true when players get paid for just one good season after I said they do. Marner has 2 60-70 point seasons and 1 94 point season. Kinda proves what I said or else he would've been paid more like that 60-70 point player like Reinhart recently was or somewhere in the middle. You say other factors go into contract negotiations and 5v5 production was 1 of your examples and Marner had 6 more 5v5 points over his ELC but had 6 fewer points total. Said he was a better PP player while he had 20 less PP points and blamed the NHL giving PPs out like candy back then and a brain dead coach but the NHLs scoring increasing since those days has no negative on Marners production at all I guess. 6 more points 5v5, less PPs and 1 year of PKing on a bottom half of the league PK that couldn't hit 80% and 1 more year on his contract got him 2% more when he probably only deserved .2% more at best.

 

[Dreakmur]

Based on your logic, Marner was underpaid compared to Kane, because the gap between 94 points and 72 points is bigger than the cost gap. But players don't get paid based on just one season, and I showed you how Marner's entire pre-signing period compares. 6th best in the entire cap era (for which he received the 10th biggest post-ELC contract), and consistent with your chosen comparable.

Marner had 55 more ES points at time of signing. He had 0.631 ES points per game compared to Kane's 0.516, and 2.56 ES points per 60 compared to Kane's 2.12. But what I actually showed you was every single game state. A 20.6% bigger contract for 20.8% higher ES production, 25.5% higher PP production, plus PKing and an extra year.

He was a better PP player. He had 1 less PP point (69 compared to 70). The difference is, Marner did it in 575 PP minutes, and Kane did it in 740 PP minutes, meaning Marner produced better on the PP (7.19 > 5.67).

If you want to adjust for league scoring levels across eras, that would mean a 20.6% bigger contract for 12.8% higher ES production, 21.0% higher PP production, plus PKing and an extra year. Still reasonable.

Dubas signed great contracts! Such bad luck we kept losing!

 

[Killswitch]

Jeez, this flashed before my eyes.

On this day in 2016, the Leafs trade Dion Phaneuf in blockbuster trade with Senators

On this day in 2016, the Toronto Maple Leafs pulled off a blockbuster...

theleafsnation.com

Flames traded for a top 6 center, and Stajan was on a 61 point pace.

There is your revenge of the Flames, trading Blake Coleman to the Leafs coming off a fluke 54 point season.

2 things about that. He definitely wouldn't get the same usage here and we're paying for that fluke season, not the regular ones

 

[The Masters]

I can't get hyped about next season.

 

[ULF_55]

2 things about that. He definitely wouldn't get the same usage here and we're paying for that fluke season, not the regular ones

No interest unless it for something like Kampf.

 

[ER89]

A couple Marner trade ideas…
(Teams that were reportedly interested)
1
To Dallas … Marner
To Leafs … Marchment (cap reasons) + Stankoven + Harley (RFA)

2
To Utah…Marner
To Leafs…Crouse + McBain + Valimaki (cap reasons) + Lamoureux

Thoughts…

Sure why not.

Idc at this point I'm down for change for the sake of it.

 

[Magic Man]

David Kampf + Nicholas Robertson for Blake Coleman

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Leafs trade Tavares, Robertson, Liljegren, 1st (2024), Stolarz
Columbus trades Jenner, Laine, Merzlikins

Leafs trade Marner, Merzlikins, Minten, McCabe, 1st (2026), 1st (2027)
Islanders trade Sorokin, Pulock

Laine(8.7)/Matthews(13.5)/Nylander(11.5)
Knies(1)/Jenner(3.75)/Cowan(1)
McMann(1)/Domi(3.75)/Jarnkrok(2)
Reaves(1.35)/Kampf(2.5)/Dewar(1)

Reilly(7.5)/Pulock(6)
OEL(3.5)/Tanev(4.5)
Benoit(1)/Timmons(1)
*Hakanpaa(1.5)

Sorokin(8.25)
Woll (1)

Total = 85.8 (2.2 remaining)

 

[ULF_55]

David Kampf + Nicholas Robertson for Blake Coleman

and Cole Schwindt

​

 

[ULF_55]

Leafs trade Tavares, Robertson, Liljegren, 1st (2024), Stolarz
Columbus trades Jenner, Laine, Merzlikins

Leafs trade Marner, Merzlikins, Minten, McCabe, 1st (2026), 1st (2027)
Islanders trade Sorokin, Pulock

Laine(8.7)/Matthews(13.5)/Nylander(11.5)
Knies(1)/Jenner(3.75)/Cowan(1)
McMann(1)/Domi(3.75)/Jarnkrok(2)
Reaves(1.35)/Kampf(2.5)/Dewar(1)

Reilly(7.5)/Pulock(6)
OEL(3.5)/Tanev(4.5)
Benoit(1)/Timmons(1)
*Hakanpaa(1.5)

Sorokin(8.25)
Woll (1)

Total = 85.8 (2.2 remaining)

What year is it?
Leafs have already used their 2024 pick, and don't have one until 2026.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

What year is it?
Leafs have already used their 2024 pick, and don't have one until 2026.

Oops.

Just throw something else in. Danford instead of the pick maybe. Or one of the 1st's going in the Islanders trade.

It's boring in the summer.

I'm just passing time with these fantasy proposals to give us all something to talk about and see what ways they can improve the team still.

I'm not a big fan of the goaltending and defense still. Would like to see another 1RHD brought in to push everyone on that side down a slot. And the combination of Woll and Stolarz doesn't give much confidence.

I would really like to see them with a true Vezina caliber quality goaltender just once in my lifetime.

 

[ULF_55]

Leafs trade Tavares, Robertson, Liljegren, 1st (2024), Stolarz
Columbus trades Jenner, Laine, Merzlikins

Leafs trade Marner, Merzlikins, Minten, McCabe, 1st (2026), 1st (2027)
Islanders trade Sorokin, Pulock

Laine(8.7)/Matthews(13.5)/Nylander(11.5)
Knies(1)/Jenner(3.75)/Cowan(1)
McMann(1)/Domi(3.75)/Jarnkrok(2)
Reaves(1.35)/Kampf(2.5)/Dewar(1)

Reilly(7.5)/Pulock(6)
OEL(3.5)/Tanev(4.5)
Benoit(1)/Timmons(1)
*Hakanpaa(1.5)

Sorokin(8.25)
Woll (1)

Total = 85.8 (2.2 remaining)

Leafs trade: marner, Tavares, Robertson, McCabe, Stolarz, Liljegren, Minten, Danford, 1st. 2026, 1st. 2027

Leafs get: Laine (?dump?), Jenner, Pulock, Sorokin

 

[ULF_55]

Oops.

Just throw something else in. Danford instead of the pick maybe. Or one of the 1st's going in the Islanders trade.

It's boring in the summer.

I'm just passing time with these fantasy proposals to give us all something to talk about and see what ways they can improve the team still.

I'm not a big fan of the goaltending and defense still. Would like to see another 1RHD brought in to push everyone on that side down a slot. And the combination of Woll and Stolarz doesn't give much confidence.

I would really like to see them with a true Vezina caliber quality goaltender just once in my lifetime.

Real targets Pulock and Sorokin?

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Real targets Pulock and Sorokin?

Exactly.

But needed to balance the cap and try to backfill a few spots.

I figure CLB would go for it cause it gets them out of the Laine contract a year early and gives them some assets for a rebuild.

Islanders I figured it was an overwhemling offer with Merzlikins as Sorokin's replacement, and they can have Hildeby too I guess, though I rather like him.

 

[Sypher04]

Make a trade for a third line center: Gourde/Colton/Jenner, someone like that.
Graduate some youth like Cowan and maybe Minten (who I think may be better off developing in the NHL than the AHL)

Knies - Matthews - Domi
Cowan - Tavares - Marner
McMann - Gourde/Colton/Jenner - Nylander
Holmberg - Minten - Jarnkrok

If you can do this while having enough cap to keep Kampf as 4C then fine, do that.
I would be good with this forward group to start the season, especially in conjunction with new coaching & an upgraded and more versatile defense.
Tweak around the edges of the bottom 6 from there

 

[Fogelhund]

Oops.

Just throw something else in. Danford instead of the pick maybe. Or one of the 1st's going in the Islanders trade.

It's boring in the summer.

I'm just passing time with these fantasy proposals to give us all something to talk about and see what ways they can improve the team still.

I'm not a big fan of the goaltending and defense still. Would like to see another 1RHD brought in to push everyone on that side down a slot. And the combination of Woll and Stolarz doesn't give much confidence.

I would really like to see them with a true Vezina caliber quality goaltender just once in my lifetime.

I like the idea of improving the team. But that's not what happened here.

 

[Fogelhund]

Make a trade for a third line center: Gourde/Colton/Jenner, someone like that.
Graduate some youth like Cowan and maybe Minten (who I think may be better off developing in the NHL than the AHL)

Knies - Matthews - Domi
Cowan - Tavares - Marner
McMann - Gourde/Colton/Jenner - Nylander
Holmberg - Minten - Jarnkrok

If you can do this while having enough cap to keep Kampf as 4C then fine, do that.
I would be good with this forward group to start the season, especially in conjunction with new coaching & an upgraded and more versatile defense.
Tweak around the edges of the bottom 6 from there

Obtaining a good 3C would be great, and those are some interesting names there. Having said that, how on earth do we convince teams to trade us their C's, when they need them, and it would create a huge hole in their lineups? These are teams who couldn't afford to lose a C.

 

[Sypher04]

Obtaining a good 3C would be great, and those are some interesting names there. Having said that, how on earth do we convince teams to trade us their C's, when they need them, and it would create a huge hole in their lineups? These are teams who couldn't afford to lose a C.

Well, I think Columbus isn't close to being good, so I think for the right price there'd be very few pieces there that aren't available. With Jenner being 31 right now, if we offer them something that fits their timeline better, I think it could be done.

Gourde & Colton I think are the more complex. And I agree with you.
What I would say is Gourde has 1 year left, so there'd probably have to be some indication he doesn't plan to extend for them to get on board, especially as a team that struggled offensively. We'd need retention as well, which further complicates things.

Colton I think is a numbers game. Colorado doesn't have clarity on Landeskog and Nichuskin right now, but if both are able to return this year they are going to be WAY over the cap.
IF, and big IF, Colton was made available I think it's probably a deadline move to be honest. 3 years left at 4M he'd be a huge addition, but he's also be the most expensive to acquire and Colorado would not be looking to take any cap back which makes it tight.

 

[SprDaVE]

Make a trade for a third line center: Gourde/Colton/Jenner, someone like that.
Graduate some youth like Cowan and maybe Minten (who I think may be better off developing in the NHL than the AHL)

Knies - Matthews - Domi
Cowan - Tavares - Marner
McMann - Gourde/Colton/Jenner - Nylander
Holmberg - Minten - Jarnkrok

If you can do this while having enough cap to keep Kampf as 4C then fine, do that.
I would be good with this forward group to start the season, especially in conjunction with new coaching & an upgraded and more versatile defense.
Tweak around the edges of the bottom 6 from there

Seems way too late to be able to do that without really overpaying. Quite a few teams want to dump cap so not many teams want our crap either without a sweetener. Maybe Treliving is cooking up something but I think we're at the point of what you see is what you get. Dewar re-signed at some point, go into training camp and hope a few options can outplay expectations.

The only wild card for a roster move is Robertson and finding a good trade there but I still expect him to be back with the Leafs.

 

[weems]

Make a trade for a third line center: Gourde/Colton/Jenner, someone like that.
Graduate some youth like Cowan and maybe Minten (who I think may be better off developing in the NHL than the AHL)

Knies - Matthews - Domi
Cowan - Tavares - Marner
McMann - Gourde/Colton/Jenner - Nylander
Holmberg - Minten - Jarnkrok

If you can do this while having enough cap to keep Kampf as 4C then fine, do that.
I would be good with this forward group to start the season, especially in conjunction with new coaching & an upgraded and more versatile defense.
Tweak around the edges of the bottom 6 from there

Our center position will be very interesting to watch.
If Tavares starts to decline even more, it becomes a potentially worrying situation.
We really need Minten to hit longterm, even if it's just as a strong all around 3C.