Trades & Free Agency Thread: Off-season Edition

[Peasy]

I just listened to his podcast that was posted 18 hours ago. He does 4 minutes on Marner. He never said this.

This was in the sdpn podcast. He says he thinks the most likely thing that happens is Marner walks at the end of the year.

 

[Dion TheFluff]

obviously would have preferred to trade him but walking him to FA might not be the worst thing. I think it would be awfully hard to win with 2 11 mil plus wingers on your roster.

assuming the cap goes up another 4 mil and we move on from JT and Marner, it'll give us oodles of cap space to resign McCabe (4.5 - 5 mil) and Knies long term (5 - 6 mil) and address other areas of the lineup, especially if we move on from Kampf, Liljegren, Jarnkrok and waive Reaves and Hakanpaa

Knies 5.0 Matthews 13.25 Nylander 11.5
Domi 3.75 _____ Cowan .905
McMann 1.35 Holmberg 1.5? _____
_____ _____ _____

Rielly 7.5 _____
McCabe 4.5 Tanev 4.5
OEL 3.5 Benoit 1.35

Woll 3.67
Stolarz 2.5

Would leave 27 mil to acquire a long term D partner for Rielly, a new 2nd line center and to revamp the bottom 6.

 

[Legion34]

This was in the sdpn podcast. He says he thinks the most likely thing that happens is Marner walks at the end of the year.

That’s an unforgivable and fireable offence. If the leafs decide that they are going to “run it back” to just let him walk. That’s a nightmare.

The idea that Tre would walk 2 star wingers to ufa and get nothing back is insane to me.

But CJ tends to be right. So that’s just crazy

 

[Americanadian]

Cap friendly wasn’t proven wrong. It was literally just bought by a billion dollar organization and has been used by multiple teams.

The idea that a random internet poster knows more is laughable.

Agents. GMs players accountants openly state and acknowledge how big of an issue it is.

Take 2 minutes to google.


You making up your own market valuations doesn’t change the reality

Friendly tax climates give top NHL teams a recruiting edge - InvestmentNews

For many past champions, the absence of a state income tax is a valuable bargaining chip when it comes to luring free agents.

www.investmentnews.com

So you’re saying there is no way to avoid paying the income tax stated on cap friendly? Likewise - because a website purchased by a team due to their knowledge of the CBA, we’re to assume they are CPA’s as well? We’re to assume that multiplying a number by a percentage was so complex that the capitals organization had to pay them so they could do as much for their organization?

 

[Legion34]

obviously would have preferred to trade him but walking him to FA might not be the worst thing. I think it would be awfully hard to win with 2 11 mil plus wingers on your roster.

assuming the cap goes up another 4 mil and we move on from JT and Marner, it'll give us oodles of cap space to resign McCabe (4.5 - 5 mil) and Knies long term (5 - 6 mil) and address other areas of the lineup, especially if we move on from Kampf, Liljegren, Jarnkrok and waive Reaves and Hakanpaa

Knies 5.0 Matthews 13.25 Nylander 11.5
Domi 3.75 _____ Cowan .905
McMann 1.35 Holmberg 1.5? _____
_____ _____ _____

Rielly 7.5 _____
McCabe 4.5 Tanev 4.5
OEL 3.5 Benoit 1.35

Woll 3.67
Stolarz 2.5

Would leave 27 mil to acquire a long term D partner for Rielly, a new 2nd line center and to revamp the bottom 6.

Look at ufa and tell me who is there worth having?
It’s a night mare option.

We need to try to IMO get at least a 2nd line c prospect (wright) for Marner if he is going.
If rantanen signs (likely) there is nothing there

 

[Legion34]

So you’re saying there is no way to avoid paying the income tax stated on cap friendly? Likewise - because a website purchased by a team due to their knowledge of the CBA, we’re to assume they are CPA’s as well? We’re to assume that multiplying a number by a percentage was so complex that the capitals organization had to pay them so they could do as much for their organization?

First. They hired the Gavin wealth management group to make the income tax calculator.

Another wealth management person was quoted in the article I sent

No. What I am saying is that there is no reason to suggest that it would be easier to pay less taxes starting at 39% as compared to 54-56%

Players in Florida have accountants too.
Again. quoted interviewed professionals including agents/gms/media all say it.
And the results prove it

Look at where all the top ufas signed. Florida. Nashville. Tampa. Seattle. Boston (44%)

Look at all the contracts that all these teams get players to sign for.

What else could you possibly need?
How much evidence have you provided other than conjecture on your opinion on market values and an anonymous poster?

 

[Brobust]

That’s an unforgivable and fireable offence. If the leafs decide that they are going to “run it back” to just let him walk. That’s a nightmare.

The idea that Tre would walk 2 star wingers to ufa and get nothing back is insane to me.

But CJ tends to be right. So that’s just crazy

This is nonsensical. It makes no sense. They're not going to ask him to consider a trade but they're also going to walk him to UFA?

 

[Legion34]

This is nonsensical. It makes no sense. They're not going to ask him to consider a trade but they're also going to walk him to UFA?

We need something back. The idea that you can’t break up the core. But we will just let him walk? Crazy

Even go to Vegas for karlson/hague.
Get something back that can help.

It’s the worst option I don’t see how it’s possible

 

[SprDaVE]

This is nonsensical. It makes no sense. They're not going to ask him to consider a trade but they're also going to walk him to UFA?

We need something back. The idea that you can’t break up the core. But we will just let him walk? Crazy

Even go to Vegas for karlson/hague.
Get something back that can help.

It’s the worst option I don’t see how it’s possible

Nothing is ever easy with the Leafs, they screw themselves before they even know it too. Letting him walk is so dumb but I'm sure it will be seen as the likely scenario and they'll pump themselves that they tried everything they could, and then sign a bunch of crappy contracts to make themselves look good.

 

[4thline]

Look at ufa and tell me who is there worth having?
It’s a night mare option.

We need to try to IMO get at least a 2nd line c prospect (wright) for Marner if he is going.
If rantanen signs (likely) there is nothing there

If you're letting Marner walk it shouldn't be to find a substitute 11+m winger, should be to reallocate cap.

 

[ER89]

I just listened to his podcast that was posted 18 hours ago. He does 4 minutes on Marner. He never said this.

Nvm got clickbaited then

 

[Brobust]

Nothing is ever easy with the Leafs, they screw themselves before they even know it too. Letting him walk is so dumb but I'm sure it will be seen as the likely scenario and they'll pump themselves that they tried everything they could, and then sign a bunch of crappy contracts to make themselves look good.

If that's the case then it's probably best to tune out until they go back into a rebuild.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

So....anyone offering anything of value for any of: Kampf, Jarnkrok, Lilejgren, Robertson?

 

[Fogelhund]

So....anyone offering anything of value for any of: Kampf, Jarnkrok, Lilejgren, Robertson?

Assuming they are even available.

 

[Americanadian]

First. They hired the Gavin wealth management group to make the income tax calculator.

I’ll trust a wealth management firm for this all day. I’m reading cap friendly though and there are a list of assumptions which most likely don’t apply to half the league such as “all players are assumed to be residents to their local region”. That immediately changes the calculation.

What I am saying is that there is no reason to suggest that it would be easier to pay less taxes starting at 39% as compared to 54-56%

No one is saying that. All I’m saying is I’m not going to use it as an excuse for poor management and greedy players.

And the results prove it. Look at where all the top ufas signed. Florida. Nashville. Tampa. Seattle. Boston (44%) Look at all the contracts that all these teams get players to sign for.

Would you have wanted the Leafs to sign any of Marchessault, Stamkos, Stephenson, Skjei, Montour, Zadorov, Lindholm to the contracts they got? The only safe bet there is Skjei and LD is arguably the most abundant position in the league therefore he had limited suitors. Who else could afford 7M for a LD and had the positional hole?

What else could you possibly need?
How much evidence have you provided other than conjecture on your opinion on market values and an anonymous poster?

None of the subjective comparables you provided have really convinced me that this is the reason the Leafs players make more and they can’t fill out a competitive roster.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Looking at our roster and the free agent list next season, I think we really missed the boat not trying to find a way to sign Lindholm.

We're going to have to hope one of Minten, Domi, or Quillan, somehow develop into second line centers because there aren't a lot of top 6 centers available next offseason that are under the age of 30.

There's Draisaitl, who i don't really see him leaving Edmonton to come here, and a bunch of guys 32 and older like Crosby, Backstrom, Nelson, and Bjugstad. It probably means we end up bringing JT back (albeit at a home-town discount).

 

[Dekes For Days]

I would love to know how Marner is an elite PKer when our PK has been terrible every playoffs.

Our PK hasn't been terrible every playoffs, and Marner is far from the issue when it has struggled.

Nobody cares that he's number 2 in production on our team. He's not #1 and he's not a C.

You should care that he's a top producer and player on the team. More than just the highest producing center on your team matters.

Or in our case, games 4-7.

Not that it matters which are higher/lower scoring, but that's not even true. Game 1 is our 2nd lowest scoring game after game 7. Your claims about production effects are wrong.

No, we're blaming a high paid player who can't push us over the hump

You're blaming an individual for something that isn't an individual issue, and even more odd, you're focusing on the guy primarily in charge of the thing we tend to do quite well, and not the guys who primarily do the thing we're struggling with.

We blame depth, goaltending ad defence every year we fail and moving Marner helps us improve all of that.

People here blame whatever fits their narrative, and then make suggestions that don't fix anything, and often hurt the team. Moving Marner doesn't improve anything. It gives opportunity to address something, which Treliving has shown he will waste. And even if it was addressed, it still wouldn't improve the team overall. Opening holes to close other holes doesn't advance you ahead.

Vegas scored around 25 goals on Bobrovsky last year in the finals. Colorado did the same the year before against Vasilevsky. Tampa Bay scored around 20 against Price in their matchup. These excuses only happen to us and it's what separates us from actual winners.

You mean elite goalie runs don't last forever? Wow, what a surprise! Not to mention that all of your numbers are wrong.
Toronto scored 16 goals against Price. That's the same as Tampa (16), and more than Vegas (13) and Winnipeg (6).
Toronto scored 22 goals against Vasilevsky. That's more than Colorado (20), New York (14), and Florida (3).
Toronto scored 10 goals against Bobrovsky, and while Vegas got to see the implosion side of Bobrvosky after he didn't play for like 10 days, Carolina (6) still scored less than us.
I'm not sure why you're attempting to misrepresent us as the only one that has experienced this.
Even if your argument was accurate, the only thing it would say is that we're slightly worse than cup-winners.

We're better by being a deeper team and not so reliant on 1 line.

We're not reliant on 1 line, but removing Marner would help turn us into that. Cup winners aren't made by overpaying depth.

Only 1 team wins it all, but we can't even win a series. Why is this always ignored when trying to defend this core.

Ignored? It's like this board's catchphrase. People love to pretend it means way more than it does, and then what they actually ignore is all other information and context. We're not accumulating series here. This isn't Pokemon, trying to catch them all. Unless you win 4 series in one season, all it means is that you lost in a slightly different way.

We beat them by getting rid of that good depth and defence you said we had.

No we didn't. What are you even talking about?

Who were these players who got more?

Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, McDavid, Matthews, Kovalchuk, Vanek, Nash, and Heatley. Behind everybody who earned more than him. Behind a few who didn't earn more than him. Ahead of those he earned more than. In other words, a reasonable contract.

 

[1specter]

If that's the case then it's probably best to tune out until they go back into a rebuild.

Might already be best to tune out until Shanahan is gone at minimum, the culture of this team is poison. I'm afraid you're right though and the damage is done that can't be reversed until they start all over again..

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

It's a wasted opportunity but I'm OK letting Marner walk (given we have no choice) rather than resigning him to a 8 year 13+ million deal.

For that money we could get 2 players, who while not as individually talented as Mitch, could have a larger impact to the roster.

For example, you could sign home province boys Konecny for 7 million and Sam Bennett for 5 million and arguably be much better off, adding grit and scoring on two different lines.

 

[Antropovsky]

I predicted Colorado or Fla would be in on Bodqvist. Sure enough, Brannstrom went to Colorado and Bodqvist to Fla. Thought there was a chance Bodqvist would go to Fla after Jesper signed there.

They are always after the young, talented free wallets.

 

[Antropovsky]

Apparently CJ said that it's more likely that Marner walks next year. If that's the case wtf is this front office doing by not putting pressure.

Greed... Marner knows the Leafs have the linemates for him to produce and the cap will likely go up next offseason. He also has his Toronto endorsements and his charity/tax write off, which employ his family as well. Also his value is at an all time low... he can work this season to rebuild it...wear his heart on his sleeve for one season and really cash out, before avoiding contact again afterwards.

Its more profitable for him to wait.

 

[Phion Keneuf]

I’d call up Anaheim to see if they’d trade Vatrano (upcoming UFA) for Robertson+ (Jarnkrok?).

He’d be a solid fit in the top 6 LW

 

[BertCorbeau]

That’s an unforgivable and fireable offence. If the leafs decide that they are going to “run it back” to just let him walk. That’s a nightmare.

The idea that Tre would walk 2 star wingers to ufa and get nothing back is insane to me.

But CJ tends to be right. So that’s just crazy

Just horrendous and inexcusable

 

[LeafSteel]

Looking at our roster and the free agent list next season, I think we really missed the boat not trying to find a way to sign Lindholm.

We're going to have to hope one of Minten, Domi, or Quillan, somehow develop into second line centers because there aren't a lot of top 6 centers available next offseason that are under the age of 30.

There's Draisaitl, who i don't really see him leaving Edmonton to come here, and a bunch of guys 32 and older like Crosby, Backstrom, Nelson, and Bjugstad. It probably means we end up bringing JT back (albeit at a home-town discount).

Agreed.

Was very much hoping to add Lindholm as our 2C and slot Tavares as 3C. We would have been strong down the middle for years to come.

Instead, we remain weak at Centre, with Tavares playing too high up for this season, and our biggest rival got stronger where they were previously weaker.

Just another example of how being unable to move on from Marner weakens our team, with cap space being limited.

 

[OVO16]

Does Pittsburgh have interest in Nick Robertson now that wes clark and dubas are both there?

What could a potential trade look like?