Trades & Free Agency Thread: Off-season Edition

[SprDaVE]

""

Great news. He's been really damn good.

 

[Skullz]

It's pretty obvious that he's not.

If Florida loses Barkov and Tkachuk, they lose. Heck, if they just lose Bobrovsky, they lose.

Is it? The playoffs would disagree with you there. The superior skating ability and shot threat enable 88 to thrive in the post-season even as it gets tighter.

Marner not so much, say what you will, and I've heard all the arguments before, the speed and structure of the playoffs do not lend themselves well to his game. He is still an outstanding player, but to proclaim him as obviously better than Nylander is something I take umbridge with.

When the games have mattered the most, it has consistently been Willy who has played well; be it statwise or eye-test wise.

 

[ACC1224]

Is it? The playoffs would disagree with you there. The superior skating ability and shot threat enable 88 to thrive in the post-season even as it gets tighter.

Marner not so much, say what you will, and I've heard all the arguments before, the speed and structure of the playoffs do not lend themselves well to his game. He is still an outstanding player, but to proclaim him as obviously better than Nylander is something I take umbridge with.

When the games have mattered the most, it has consistently been Willy who has played well; be it statwise or eye-test wise.

Playoffs
43 points in 51 Games, +1
50 points in 57 Games, +10

Regular Season
528 points in 603 Games, +24
639 points in 576 games, +110

Both can be better in the playoffs.

 

[stickty111]

Is it? The playoffs would disagree with you there. The superior skating ability and shot threat enable 88 to thrive in the post-season even as it gets tighter.

Marner not so much, say what you will, and I've heard all the arguments before, the speed and structure of the playoffs do not lend themselves well to his game. He is still an outstanding player, but to proclaim him as obviously better than Nylander is something I take umbridge with.

When the games have mattered the most, it has consistently been Willy who has played well; be it statwise or eye-test wise.

Mitch Marner Playoffs
Games 1-4:
39 points in 36 games= 1.08 PPG

Games 5-7:
9 points in 21 games= 0.43 PPG

William Nylander Playoffs
Games 1-4:
26 points in 33 games= 0.79 PPG

Games 5-7:
17 points in 21 games= 0.81 PPG

As the series goes along and the games get more important, Marner falls off heavily while Nylander remains consistent.
It really isn't close

 

[notDatsyuk]

It really was just Marner, they wouldn’t have moved JT. I think it’s irrelevant. They chose to keep Marner. Marner also didn’t say he wouldn’t waive.

You originally said "players' so I went with that, but I agree they likely wouldn't move JT even if it was possible.

According to everything I've heard, Marner's agent very clearly said he wouldn't waive, so they didn't have a choice.

We'll have a better idea of their intent for both after this season.

 

[hamzarocks]

We have a 2nd round pick this year

I hope we can use that + Niemela at the deadline to add a strong 3C or top 4D who has 2 playoff runs left.

Jack McBain or Nick Bjugstad could be options at the deadline for the 3C role

Top4D could be a Connor Murphy or Will Borgen if they are made available

 

[Dekes For Days]

Is it? The playoffs would disagree with you there. The superior skating ability and shot threat enable 88 to thrive in the post-season even as it gets tighter. Marner not so much, say what you will, and I've heard all the arguments before, the speed and structure of the playoffs do not lend themselves well to his game. He is still an outstanding player, but to proclaim him as obviously better than Nylander is something I take umbridge with. When the games have mattered the most, it has consistently been Willy who has played well; be it statwise or eye-test wise.

Yes, it is obvious. Marner has been the better player in both the regular season and playoffs; both statwise and eye-test wise.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I've always been a stack one PP guy, give your best players the full 2 minutes.

Part of the issue is that we stack the top unit, but still don't play it the full 2 minutes. You either have to stack both players and time, or split both players and time.

 

[Fogelhund]

You originally said "players' so I went with that, but I agree they likely wouldn't move JT even if it was possible.

According to everything I've heard, Marner's agent very clearly said he wouldn't waive, so they didn't have a choice.

We'll have a better idea of their intent for both after this season.

This is the quote, that everything comes from.

“The focus for Marner is on honoring the remaining year of his contract and seeing where things go from there,” LeBrun writes.

Read into that what you might.

 

[Skullz]

Yes, it is obvious. Marner has been the better player in both the regular season and playoffs; both statwise and eye-

Yes, it is obvious. Marner has been the better player in both the regular season and playoffs; both statwise and eye-test wise.

He has been a ghost in games 5-7. This is well documented.

 

[TheDoldrums]

We should really extend Knies before playing him with Matthews/Marner

 

[ULF_55]

Mitch Marner Playoffs
Games 1-4:
39 points in 36 games= 1.08 PPG

Games 5-7:
9 points in 21 games= 0.43 PPG

William Nylander Playoffs
Games 1-4:
26 points in 33 games= 0.79 PPG

Games 5-7:
17 points in 21 games= 0.81 PPG

As the series goes along and the games get more important, Marner falls off heavily while Nylander remains consistent.
It really isn't close

Where does lie the Captain?

 

[rumman]

This is the quote, that everything comes from.

“The focus for Marner is on honoring the remaining year of his contract and seeing where things go from there,” LeBrun writes.

Read into that what you might.

best scenario for everyone involved is for 16 to play out his contract and negotiate in the off season, after all he doesn't want to play anywhere else, right?

 

[Dekes For Days]

He has been a ghost in games 5-7. This is well documented.

No, he hasn't. Some people have just worked to cut and paste together a really misleading picture without actually understanding it.
Of our core 4 in elimination games, Marner has contributed to the 2nd most goals for and 2nd fewest goals against. He's just picked up point credit on a couple less goals.
All playoff games are worth the same anyway, and overall, Marner has been better.

 

[Skullz]

No, he hasn't. Some people have just worked to cut and paste together a really misleading picture without actually understanding it.
All playoff games are worth the same anyway, and overall, Marner has been better.

Yes, he has, as anyone with access to stats can tell. Look at the data on his shot selection in the playoffs, simply becomes more of a peripheral player, which matches the eye test. And no, Game 1 is not the same as Game 7. There's a reason there's an aura around players such as Justin Williams and Patrick Kane. It is unfair to compare Marner and others to them, I agree, but it is easier to score in Game 1 than Game 7 typically.

I typically really respect your opinion, but vis-a-vis Marnear you are rarely rational.

We should really extend Knies before playing him with Matthews/Marner

5 by 8?

 

[WTFMAN99]

If Woll has gotten over the durability issues of the past and Stolarz is solid, I see a lot of teams asking for Hildeby in a trade. They were asking last year according to Friedman and I had heard from people I trust that the Samsonov/Murray year that teams (including Florida) were asking about Woll. Goaltending is such a volatile position and a few teams did miss out on Askarov, I know Hildeby isn't in that universe for caliber of prospect but if he has a strong AHL season, teams will take note.

I know we have a 2nd round pick this year but other assets are likely going to be Hildeby, Robertson, Hirvonen and maybe Liljegren depending on how it works out with him and Berube.

I believe next year that Cowan, Minten, Grebyonkin and possibly Niemela are making the jump to the NHL.

Following that Chadwick, Danford and Ahkymatov are probably in the "next wave" conversation.

 

[TMLAM34]

If Woll has gotten over the durability issues of the past and Stolarz is solid, I see a lot of teams asking for Hildeby in a trade. They were asking last year according to Friedman and I had heard from people I trust that the Samsonov/Murray year that teams (including Florida) were asking about Woll. Goaltending is such a volatile position and a few teams did miss out on Askarov, I know Hildeby isn't in that universe for caliber of prospect but if he has a strong AHL season, teams will take note.

I know we have a 2nd round pick this year but other assets are likely going to be Hildeby, Robertson, Hirvonen and maybe Liljegren depending on how it works out with him and Berube.

I believe next year that Cowan, Minten, Grebyonkin and possibly Niemela are making the jump to the NHL.

Following that Chadwick, Danford and Ahkymatov are probably in the "next wave" conversation.

And why would you move off of Hildeby? For once, we have some solid goaltending prospects. Would be foolish to move any of them before they show what they can do in the NHL.

 

[stickty111]

Where does lie the Captain?

The post was about Marner and Nylander. Matthews wasn't mentioned

 

[WTFMAN99]

And why would you move off of Hildeby? For once, we have some solid goaltending prospects. Would be foolish to move any of them before they show what they can do in the NHL.

If Woll is healthy, playing well and Stolarz is good and we're looking to add a big piece, he could very well be someone that is asked for in a trade.

 

[Roo]

best scenario for everyone involved is for 16 to play out his contract and negotiate in the off season, after all he doesn't want to play anywhere else, right?

Absolutely. I don't think there was ever a chance he would re-sign before or during the regular season. That would be too much of a PR nightmare for the team. In this case, you can see how he (and JT) do under Berube, and how the team performs before you make the call. If he wants to be here he will be here, assuming the coach and management want the same.

 

[rumman]

Absolutely. I don't think there was ever a chance he would re-sign before or during the regular season. That would be too much of a PR nightmare for the team. In this case, you can see how he (and JT) do under Berube, and how the team performs before you make the call. If he wants to be here he will be here, assuming the coach and management want the same.

Let’s hope Tre can stay patient……..

 

[SprDaVE]

If Woll has gotten over the durability issues of the past and Stolarz is solid, I see a lot of teams asking for Hildeby in a trade. They were asking last year according to Friedman and I had heard from people I trust that the Samsonov/Murray year that teams (including Florida) were asking about Woll. Goaltending is such a volatile position and a few teams did miss out on Askarov, I know Hildeby isn't in that universe for caliber of prospect but if he has a strong AHL season, teams will take note.

I know we have a 2nd round pick this year but other assets are likely going to be Hildeby, Robertson, Hirvonen and maybe Liljegren depending on how it works out with him and Berube.

I believe next year that Cowan, Minten, Grebyonkin and possibly Niemela are making the jump to the NHL.

Following that Chadwick, Danford and Ahkymatov are probably in the "next wave" conversation.

You always need 3 goalies at the minimum that are capable. If Woll shows great growth and Hildeby is pushing for a roster spot, you trade Stolarz in the off-season. It's never that simple though so we'll see how it unfolds.

Hildeby will be cheap for a bit and trading him would be very unwise. Of course it's all dependant on a great return maybe.

 

[WTFMAN99]

You always need 3 goalies at the minimum that are capable. If Woll shows great growth and Hildeby is pushing for a roster spot, you trade Stolarz in the off-season. It's never that simple though so we'll see how it unfolds.

Hildeby will be cheap for a bit and trading him would be very unwise. Of course it's all dependant on a great return maybe.

For me, it would require a need being filled.

2C or top 4 defenseman that can be around for more than 1 season is something that would probably convince me to do so, Muzzin is an example or how Vegas got Hanifin and extended him.