GDT: Trades & Free Agency Thread - Off-Season Early Edition

[freshwind]

revisionist history astounds me

dubas did not cave on nyander, willie was poised to sit the year until HE called dubas with 15 minutes to the deadline

marner offered to sign 8.5 for 8 after year 2? good for him, he had 69 points and was a -1 that year ... posters here would have crucified lou/dubas if the leafs had done that deal ..
what does willie get if marner got that deal? willie had 61 points and was +20 ..... maybe willie should get at least the same after that year? you could argue it fairly decently either way

hindsight is wonderful

lou wouldn't cave? zaitsev 7 years? marleau 3 years? his isle contracts?

 

[SeaOfBlue]

So much shade being thrown at Lou for spending 2nds for Boyle and Plekanec but I'd like to hear more about spending so much for Nick freaking Foligno, who might not be returning.

I don't see many people praising him for it right now, do you?

In fact, it was the one move where most Dubas critics liked it and most of his "supporters" disliked it from the beginning. Of course his critics are using it as a negative again because that is what they do.

 

[Kurtz]

revisionist history astounds me

dubas did not cave on nyander, willie was poised to sit the year until HE called dubas with 15 minutes to the deadline

marner offered to sign 8.5 for 8 after year 2? good for him, he had 69 points and was a -1 that year ... posters here would have crucified lou/dubas if the leafs had done that deal ..
what does willie get if marner got that deal? willie had 61 points and was +20 ..... maybe willie should get at least the same after that year? you could argue it fairly decently either way

hindsight is wonderful

lou wouldn't cave? zaitsev 7 years? marleau 3 years? his isle contracts?

Mitch should have been bridged, like Point. It was obvious at the time, and it's a shame we never even considered it. But what's done is done, I don't see the point of talking about it every day for years.

He's $2m/year overpaid. Consider that $2 mil of bad salary. I can't think of any other bad deals we have on our roster other than Phil's $1m buyout. Most teams in the league would kill to only have $3 mil of bad salary on their roster.

 

[Burnie97]

Well in regards to what I was saying earlier... I'd still want Hyman back at around 4. Thing is he seems like he wants a lot of years so if that's the case he'll be gone. I'm good with 4 years. Otherwise I want Saad or Coleman then.

Also I was just listening to Geoff Baker. I think he's the beat writer for Seattle now. He's thinking that Kraken are taking Kerfoot forsure. Wouldn't be terrible but the 3C spot needs to be filled with a really good defensive hard nosed guy then. Coleman also plays C no? May be hard to get him though.

 

[dubplatepressure]

So much shade being thrown at Lou for spending 2nds for Boyle and Plekanec but I'd like to hear more about spending so much for Nick freaking Foligno, who might not be returning.

Yes, we clearly need to vocalize our dissatisfaction with Dubas MORE...

 

[Jozay]

Well in regards to what I was saying earlier... I'd still want Hyman back at around 4. Thing is he seems like he wants a lot of years so if that's the case he'll be gone. I'm good with 4 years. Otherwise I want Saad or Coleman then.

Also I was just listening to Geoff Baker. I think he's the beat writer for Seattle now. He's thinking that Kraken are taking Kerfoot forsure. Wouldn't be terrible but the 3C spot needs to be filled with a really good defensive hard nosed guy then. Coleman also plays C no? May be hard to get him though.

None of those top American free agents are coming to Canada.

Seravelli on his podcast made the point that historically top american Fa's dont sign in Canada, now with covid, it'll probably make it even harder.

 

[McSnypsky]

Well in regards to what I was saying earlier... I'd still want Hyman back at around 4. Thing is he seems like he wants a lot of years so if that's the case he'll be gone. I'm good with 4 years. Otherwise I want Saad or Coleman then.

Also I was just listening to Geoff Baker. I think he's the beat writer for Seattle now. He's thinking that Kraken are taking Kerfoot forsure. Wouldn't be terrible but the 3C spot needs to be filled with a really good defensive hard nosed guy then. Coleman also plays C no? May be hard to get him though.

I've been hearing that Coleman is a Texas guy and that he'll probably end up there, NHL players are starting to think they can win and pay less taxes so that rules out all of Canada!

 

[Jozay]

So much shade being thrown at Lou for spending 2nds for Boyle and Plekanec but I'd like to hear more about spending so much for Nick freaking Foligno, who might not be returning.

Horrible trade man.

Just awful.

 

[Kurtz]

I've been hearing that Coleman is a Texas guy and that he'll probably end up there, NHL players are starting to think they can win and pay less taxes so that rules out all of Canada!

Yea, Coleman is a Texas guy with a Texas wife. If he can't come back to Tampa, surely he's off to Dallas.

I think we have a chance at his line-mate though, who will be cheaper and is from here.

 

[Burnie97]

None of those top American free agents are coming to Canada.

Seravelli on his podcast made the point that historically top american Fa's dont sign in Canada, now with covid, it'll probably make it even harder.

Yeah more just wishful thinking on my part. It'd be great if a young guy like Robertson could have a break out year. That's the kind of thing they're going to basically need so close to the cap. Or gamble on a reclamation project like Gally.

I've been hearing that Coleman is a Texas guy and that he'll probably end up there, NHL players are starting to think they can win and pay less taxes so that rules out all of Canada!

I've heard Dallas too. It'd just be cool if we landed someone with some pedigree at a decent price but not looking likely.

 

[freshwind]

Mitch should have been bridged, like Point. It was obvious at the time, and it's a shame we never even considered it. But what's done is done, I don't see the point of talking about it every day for years.

He's $2m/year overpaid. Consider that $2 mil of bad salary. I can't think of any other bad deals we have on our roster other than Phil's $1m buyout. Most teams in the league would kill to only have $3 mil of bad salary on their roster.

can't say i disagree -- but if we believe the rumour of 8.5 for 8 the supposed bridge ask was 9 per for 3?
these guys really caused the team to be between a rock and a hard place .... tough internet guys say "let them sit" ... when is the last time a team made a 22 year old rfa sit the season?
in hindsight it may have worked out differently if there was no pandemic and 4 years at least of a flat cap ... in my mind today's circumstances would justify a change in the thinking of "we can and we will" ...... now the debate becomes who do you move LOL... and i ain't going there tonight ...

 

[Dreakmur]

If you can get Saad for the same price as Hyman you do that easily though.

If they come at the same price, Hyman is easily the better player.

 

[Antropovsky]

They dodged Clarkson but signed Lucic. But yea some teams/GM's never learn.

I imagine Lou would be all over Hyman too if the Islanders weren't ****ed cap wise.

Lou: Hyman i will give you 7 years...but if your play significantly declines... well you will have a glorious new children's book to write about a veteran hockey player who goes to a beauuutiful island, one most magnificent and full of wonder and joy.

 

[Brobust]

Mitch should have been bridged, like Point. It was obvious at the time, and it's a shame we never even considered it. But what's done is done, I don't see the point of talking about it every day for years.

He's $2m/year overpaid. Consider that $2 mil of bad salary. I can't think of any other bad deals we have on our roster other than Phil's $1m buyout. Most teams in the league would kill to only have $3 mil of bad salary on their roster.

One thing to consider about a Marner bridge is it would probably look like $8-9M/3 years with a killer QO and they'd have no leverage at the end of the deal. Meanwhile, Marner would be through back to back seasons playing at a 90 point pace and thinking he has a legitimate case to be the highest paid player in the NHL.

I don't think there's a winning scenario in the Marner negotiations.

The perfect way to play this would have been to negotiate in the summer of 2018, overpaid Nylander and signed Marner for $8.5M and Matthews for $12M. But those deals (except for Matthews) would be considered massive gambles at the time.

 

[ToneDog]

You understand that it's incredibly stupid to pay free agents for their past performance instead of future expectations, yes?

How do you expect a power foward with significant injury history to fare into his 30s?

So do u sign him if he accepts a discount?

 

[stickty111]

Horrible trade man.

Just awful.

Us Dubas fans knew it was. The Dubas critics loved it. Now that it didn't work out as expected, the Dubas critics are blaming Dubas again. It's cringe worthy but thats what the group is known for. Everybody with any logic knew we needed more offensive punch
Johnston said at the end of the year said if you put truth serum on Dubas, he would say he wished he went after Hall more.

 

[stickty111]

If you want to blame Dubas for contracts, fine understandable. Just don't say Lou would have done a better job because no he wouldn't. He was responsible for the Zaitsev and Marleau contracts. Those are on par with the awful Marner contract. Dubas had to clean up Lou's mess and it costed us Brown and a 1st. Lou's contract management with the Isles has been terrible too.
Both have been weak in this aspect.

 

[Kiwi]

So do u sign him if he accepts a discount?

No, I wouldn't screw my cap outlook for as much as half a decade on Hyman

I don't think the reward is worth the risk

 

[Dreakmur]

revisionist history astounds me

dubas did not cave on nyander, willie was poised to sit the year until HE called dubas with 15 minutes to the deadline

Just because Nylander’s camp made the phone call doesn’t mean Dubas didn’t give in. There’s no way he wanted to pay Nylander 7.5 million per season….

 

[tony135420]

If you want to blame Dubas for contracts, fine understandable. Just don't say Lou would have done a better job because no he wouldn't. He was responsible for the Zaitsev and Marleau contracts. Those are on par with the awful Marner contract. Dubas had to clean up Lou's mess and it costed us Brown and a 1st. Lou's contract management with the Isles has been terrible too.
Both have been weak in this aspect.

I would say the Marner contract is 1-1.5M over, whereas, the Marleau and Zaitsev contracts were negative value. At least Marner puts up points in the regular season.

 

[Dreakmur]

If you want to blame Dubas for contracts, fine understandable. Just don't say Lou would have done a better job because no he wouldn't. He was responsible for the Zaitsev and Marleau contracts. Those are on par with the awful Marner contract. Dubas had to clean up Lou's mess and it costed us Brown and a 1st. Lou's contract management with the Isles has been terrible too.
Both have been weak in this aspect.

4.5 for a good #4 defenseman is fine.

Marleau contract was only a problem once Tavares was signed.

 

[ToneDog]

No, I wouldn't screw my cap outlook for as much as half a decade on Hyman

I don't think the reward is worth the risk

Interesting but not sure 5x4m (discount) would screw the cap more that it has already has been. Muzz for example might be worse. No??

 

[Kiwi]

Interesting but not sure 5x4m (discount) would screw the cap more that it has already has been. Muzz for example might be worse. No??

I think a strong argument could be made we should be exposing Muzzin and his contract in the expansion draft, he's also dealing with injuries and an aggressive play style that aren't conducive to aging well

Also the last I looked a Hyman hometown discount was 5M*8 so your numbers are fantasy land

 

[Brobust]

Interesting but not sure 5x4m (discount) would screw the cap more that it has already has been. Muzz for example might be worse. No??

Maybe I'm reading this wrong but it looks like defensive defensemen age very well. Muzzin and Brodie should both age well.

 

[ToneDog]

I think a strong argument could be made we should be exposing Muzzin and his contract in the expansion draft, he's also dealing with injuries and an aggressive play style that aren't conducive to aging well

Also the last I looked a Hyman hometown discount was 5M*8 so your numbers are fantasy land

Obviously his discount is not good enough but at the right price I would resign him is what my point is. He is a good player.