GDT: Trades & Free Agency Thread - Off-Season Early Edition

[bossram]

How anyone can watch the playoffs this year and not see what our team was lacking..... I did not see one other team pull back from a hit or not stand up for themselves or each other. The lack of intensity was loud and clear and the refusal or inability to sacrifice and go to to war for one another was soft compared to every other team in the playoffs. This team does not stick up for themselves or each other and in the playoffs that don't fly.

Goals. Goals were what was lacking against Montreal.

Honestly, I thought the Leafs showed a lot of pushback and "intensity" in games 5 and 6, storming back to take it to overtime (where they dominated the OT periods but lost because of incredibly bad mistakes from a couple individual plays). Those losses weren't anything to do with "sacrifice" or whatever. If they had zero willingness to "go to war", they could have just given up when the chips were already down.

It's just bizarre how many people like you continue saying, "Did you watch the games? They didn't have enough heart/grit/hardness/intensity/sacrifice!11!!@21!"

Like yes, I did watch the games. In game 7, they did not create nearly enough chances. In games 5 and 6, they did not get enough finish and had a few costly mistakes. Just incredibly bizarre the losses are attributed to some mystical qualities when what actually happened is pretty clear on the ice.

 

[Gabriel426]

As much as teams say they don't follow social media or insiders they all know what they say. If say DET was interested in Hyman and Dreger puts out Leafs are open to trading him before he hits UFA it might have been leaked by the agent before Dubas has a change to reach out to all the GM's

Having these insiders leak info is much better than Dubas calling other GMs and say, hey you team sure can use a Hyman, give me a 4th and you can start the process a few days earlier.

 

[bossram]

Tampa soft? now Ive heard everything. They are super talented but they hit as much as any other team and take it to other teams...initiate contact and drive the play...soft? yea ok.

They're soft in the sense that they don't go chasing hits or look to punish the other team physically.

Yes, they do initiate contact and take contact to make plays. A guy like Gourde is the best at this. He's 5'9. He's not a conventional bruiser. Yet everyone keeps suggesting they need bigger and "tougher" players to play "physical".

No, they don't. They need good players who can make plays and drive the game. Gourde is a fringe 1st line player. He's on Tampa's 3rd line. That's why they're an elite team. Not because of some mystical intangible qualities.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Honestly, I thought the Leafs showed a lot of pushback and "intensity" in games 5 and 6, storming back to take it to overtime

They can for short stretches in desperation. Players themselves say they're too easy to play against. Muzzin has said it a few times now. And in the biggest games of the year, namely games 7's, they fold. Total lack of compete

 

[ACC1224]

They can sign Hyman, lol.

I think you will be surprise where GMs and owners get their intel.

Where do you think they get it from?

 

[bossram]

They can for short stretches in desperation. Players themselves say they're too easy to play against. Muzzin has said it a few times now. And in the biggest games of the year, namely games 7's, they fold. Total lack of compete

Obviously, they do need to compete harder, coming out that flat in games 5-7 is unacceptable. But I wouldn't really say that's the real issue. They're just not that good of a team. They're not so good that even with some bad luck, they can still beat a team like Montreal.

I don't really want to ascribe some intangible factor to the loss because narratives are often built on randomness/variance. I mean, the Leafs absolutely dominated the OTs in games 5 and 6 and probably deserved a goal for their efforts there. If some random bounce goes in for them, the narrative is completely different. The narrative is completely different if John Tavares isn't gone for all but 10 minutes.

Like, why isn't the narrative with Vegas that they didn't compete hard enough? They got outplayed by a team that was vastly inferior on paper. It just seems bizarre to me that we throw around all these, what are essentially made up stories, when there are other easily attributable factors to point to first.

 

[ACC1224]

As much as teams say they don't follow social media or insiders they all know what they say. If say DET was interested in Hyman and Dreger puts out Leafs are open to trading him before he hits UFA it might have been leaked by the agent before Dubas has a change to reach out to all the GM's

I would assume the agent would just call Detroit himself instead of hoping they follow Dreger.

 

[Jozay]

Holy f***.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Holy f***.

So he effectively said I want money and security. Good for him, but he also knew that it was not going to happen with the Leafs.

 

[dubplatepressure]

Holy f***.

Because signing high-mileage turning-30 wingers to long term contracts always works out, right?

Seriously do not understand why GMs continue to do this to themselves.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

Holy f***.

That has disaster written all over it.

Great player and an amazing person but those knees are one semi-major injury away from turning him into a massive liability. All of his skill comes in the dirty areas of the ice and once those knees go, he'll become an AHLer.

Signing Hyman for 7-8 years is asking for trouble.

 

[Cor]

Hyman leaving is Easier to swallow if it’s an obscene contract AND we get an asset in a sign/trade or rights trade

 

[TheBigFour]

Hyman wants the “josh Anderson” contract.
5.5 x 7

 

[BlueForever75]

Holy f***.

That is nuts. I like Hyman and all. Like what he brings to the team. But he has forgotten what his role is on the Leafs and any other team.

He is the furthest thing from a skilled player and doesnt warrant the term or dollars he is asking or looking for. He may find a suitor but it wont be one that is in contention for a Stanley Cup because their payrolls like ours already has its cap dollars earmarked for the skilled and star like players.

Hyman points and stats are inflated because of playing with who he has been playing with. He isnt a power forward and he isnt a skilled player. He is a tweener that will only get the contract he is looking for because other players made him.

Good luck on getting what is being rumored but I am very happy that Dubas and company are walking away from this ask. Good on them. Hope is that they can work out a trade for his rights.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

They can for short stretches in desperation. Players themselves say they're too easy to play against. Muzzin has said it a few times now. And in the biggest games of the year, namely games 7's, they fold. Total lack of compete

There is more than one way to interpret all of that. I highly doubt they come into a Game 7 and think "I am not going to try hard or compete to win". If that was their attitude, they never would have made it to the NHL in the first place, or had the kind of success they've had to this point in their careers.

Our guys compete. They are just incapable of eliminating stupid plays out of their games. It's either a terrible giveaway, a bad penalty, or a terrible goal given up by a goalie which resulted from a complete lack of focus. We could be in control for much of the game, but then have one terrible mistake end up in the back of our net. I am sure a lot of that sounds familiar to people, because that pretty much defined all of our losses in the Habs series.

 

[Torontonian]

Don't mind the Leafs going after Kemper, don't like the cap hit of 4.5m. Toronto needs a lower cap hit on the 1b option to be able to upgrade the top 9.

I don't think the yotes are the type of team to ever retain on a contract either.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Like, why isn't the narrative with Vegas that they didn't compete hard enough?

Because Vegas is known to compete hard and has accomplished more in a few years than the Leafs have in decades. They lost to an under-dog, it happens.
The Leafs are known to be easy to play against, easy to defend - just hit them hard, and wait for them to make mistakes. They're not that good of a team because of the cap allocation - all on Dubas

 

[Budz]

Don't mind the Leafs going after Kemper, don't like the cap hit of 4.5m. Toronto needs a lower cap hit on the 1b option to be able to upgrade the top 9.

I don't think the yotes are the type of team to ever retain on a contract either.

Campbell would have to go the other way or Arizona retains salary.

 

[Menzinger]

That has disaster written all over it.

Great player and an amazing person but those knees are one semi-major injury away from turning him into a massive liability. All of his skill comes in the dirty areas of the ice and once those knees go, he'll become an AHLer.

Signing Hyman for 7-8 years is asking for trouble.

He's probably got 2-3 years left of good performance; though even then his last two playoff performances have both shown his body has trouble keeping up with the rigors of season.

Any deal that has term longer than 4 years and a high cap hit is going to be ugly

 

[Gabriel426]

Where do you think they get it from?

I think these so called insiders is part of their sources and it works both ways.

 

[ShaneFalco]

There is more than one way to interpret all of that. I highly doubt they come into a Game 7 and think "I am not going to try hard or compete to win". If that was their attitude, they never would have made it to the NHL in the first place, or had the kind of success they've had to this point in their careers.

Our guys compete. They are just incapable of eliminating stupid plays out of their games. It's either a terrible giveaway, a bad penalty, or a terrible goal given up by a goalie which resulted from a complete lack of focus. We could be in control for much of the game, but then have one terrible mistake end up in the back of our net. I am sure a lot of that sounds familiar to people, because that pretty much defined all of our losses in the Habs series.

They don't lay down and roll over and mistakes are def part of it, but they just don't bring the game 7 intensity. We hear it all the time, "didn't start on time", "didn't dictate the play" and the PP - just sad. Then yes, the stupid over the glass penalties, a soft goal, and they're toast.

“We all know we have the skill,” Marner said Wednesday. “But we don't have the work ethic every single night (with) every single guy buying in. Skill only takes you so far and then the work ethic takes you to a whole other level. That's something that we need to be consistently better with.
-Marner in 2020 'It's unacceptable': Maple Leafs look in the mirror after ugly effort

Muzzin this year - The teams that go the farthest play the hardest and they grind teams down,” said Muzzin. “We have to learn from this and take it going forward that we need to do that more. “We can't be easy to play against or it won't get done in the playoffs.”
Maple Leafs left searching for answers after another opening-round playoff exit

 

[ryno23]

I would assume the agent would just call Detroit himself instead of hoping they follow Dreger.

Agent can't call Detroit as the player is under contract to Toronto. Well I am sure there is *wink* *wink* conversations between agents and other teams but it's not legal

 

[613Leafer]

Hyman wants the “josh Anderson” contract.
5.5 x 7

He should probably find a time machine then because Anderson signed that at age 26.

 

[The Podium]

Mirtle and Siegal mentioned the same thing on the latest Leaf report.

However, only makes sense for the Leafs if we acquire him after expansion, and Coyotes may look to move him before the roster freeze and list submission on Saturday

Vegas has enough cap space to eat Keumpers salary and are exempt from the expansion draft. Bet they are somehow involved in a delayed three-way deal before and after the ED.

 

[613Leafer]

They don't lay down and roll over and mistakes are def part of it, but they just don't bring the game 7 intensity. We hear it all the time, "didn't start on time", "didn't dictate the play" and the PP - just sad. Then yes, the stupid over the glass penalties, a soft goal, and they're toast.

“We all know we have the skill,” Marner said Wednesday. “But we don't have the work ethic every single night (with) every single guy buying in. Skill only takes you so far and then the work ethic takes you to a whole other level. That's something that we need to be consistently better with.
-Marner in 2020 'It's unacceptable': Maple Leafs look in the mirror after ugly effort

Muzzin this year - The teams that go the farthest play the hardest and they grind teams down,” said Muzzin. “We have to learn from this and take it going forward that we need to do that more. “We can't be easy to play against or it won't get done in the playoffs.”
Maple Leafs left searching for answers after another opening-round playoff exit

The Muzzin quote is the most meaningful IMO. It's a guy who has won it all multiple times before, and himself plays "playoff style hockey".

Looks like he recognized there were still problems and was trying to motivate the group to buy-in more to that style of play. Unfortunately they didn't, and here we are.