GDT: Trades & Free Agency Thread - Off-Season Early Edition

[rumman]

I'm just growing tired man. How the hell did we become the softest team on planet earth

 

[rumman]

The guys that have walked for nothing over the years....... wow

No advance stats on asset management?

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

I think other options were worth exploring, but none of them were good. You are pretty much throwing darts up against the dart board, which he did (he did more than switch up the 2nd line; he was constantly switching up the bottom 6), except with his top line. He probably knew Marner was not going to get anything done away from Matthews + Tavares and at least the top line was generating opportunities.

He didn't even try with Marner, though. At the very least, he could've moved Marner away from the Danault line and let him carry the 3rd line against a lesser matchup. Nylander did that with his line

 

[SeaOfBlue]

That Defense core is too soft once again. Not gonna change anything

Our defense was one of the few bright spots in our series against the Habs. Was no different against the Blue Jackets either.

We have guys who play hard but smart defense back there while also moving the puck. In fact, Holl, one of the guys with some snarl, was probably our biggest liability back there outside of Sandin... And you don't see me putting Sandin in our lineup again.

We were the best team in the playoffs at keeping Montreal out of the high danger areas, and nobody in the entire playoffs did better than us in that regard overall. That is where being big and physical is the most helpful, and our "soft" defense was one of the better ones in the NHL in that regard. Even going up against the likes of Josh Anderson.

Liljegren would be a solid addition to our defense, and is not a soft player himself. Add one UFA who can replace what Bogosian brought (you will see that most of my suggestions fit that bill) and we are in a good spot for next year.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

He didn't even try with Marner, though. At the very least, he could've moved Marner away from the Danault line and let him carry the 3rd line against a lesser matchup. Nylander did that with his line

Marner's issues had nothing to do with anything Danault's line was doing. Our top line was caving that line in. Marner's issues was with Marner.

Keefe did not throw his hands up and give up, but this is one where throwing the lines in the blender or trying to give a core player bottom 6 matchups was not going to solve things.

 

[Cor]

Remember Justin Holl?

Lilly is better than he was when he started on our shut down pair

but you also have Dermott and Hakanpaa below him in case, and you can flip as needed

There is a percentage of the fanbase who still view Liljegren as a small thin offensive d-man still. Yet, in reality, dude has insanely bulked up, and is incredibly solid in the corners/net front. His transition game and ability to deny zone entries would work extremely well with Muzzin.

I really want Liljegren with Muzzin this season. Will there be some errors in the early part of the season? Yup, but that is development. If we don't have any intention of having Liljegren on the team this year, we might as well trade him. He's got nothing left to learn in the AHL, and it'll stunt his development.

 

[Torontonian]

No, I take it you don't watch the game's hotshot.

Never said our defense being soft was the sole reason we lost. But it played a huge factor. Sure we didn't score enough goals, but how about the softies we let in in front of our net because we couldn't clear people away from in front of our net or the board battles we lost in the defensive end before giving up our goals? All because we were scared to crosscheck people down to the ice?

Hockey ain't about just goals. This team is too easy too play against.

Agree to disagree, I thought out D played fine the entire series, I don't think having big strong dman were the difference in winning and losing, Sandin, a rookie had a tough game 5 that lead to two direct giveaways to goals (only 20 games played in the NHL) aswell as the awful give away from chucky in OT. Game six there was a couple of scramble goals in front of the net on the PK and got out manned, plus that OT winning goal in game was a soft one, and in game seven, the first goal was soft as butter with a simple shot from the circle.

The D was good enough this year to be able to make it to the third round. It came down solely on the forwards not being able to score.

 

[bossram]

No, I take it you don't watch the game's hotshot.

Never said our defense being soft was the sole reason we lost. But it played a huge factor. Sure we didn't score enough goals, but how about the softies we let in in front of our net because we couldn't clear people away from in front of our net or the board battles we lost in the defensive end before giving up our goals? All because we were scared to crosscheck people down to the ice?

Hockey ain't about just goals. This team is too easy too play against.

They did allow some net-front goals. But again, if you're losing 2-1, the bigger problem is you scored 1 goal.

Crosschecking guys isn't really "clearing the crease". They're still there and just get back up. Often crosschecking forwards in front of the net is a last-ditch effort because the defender was too late to react.

You need to effectively box-out forwards. This is why Brodie is arguably the team's best net-front defensive player, despite being the least physical (and looking at the Isolated Impact heatmaps from HockeyViz, it's definitely clear that Brodie is superior to Muzzin, Bogosian, and Holl at preventing net-front chances).

So yeah, finding a defensemen who can prevent net-front chances would be nice. But for most of the "big and tough" guys who have that reputation, it's just a myth.

It would also be nice to score more than 1 goal in a game 7. That could help too.

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

Marner's issues had nothing to do with anything Danault's line was doing. Our top line was caving that line in. Marner's issues was with Marner.

Keefe did not throw his hands up and give up, but this is one where throwing the lines in the blender or trying to give a core player bottom 6 matchups was not going to solve things.

Well since it never happened, we'll never know. But maybe a temporary split could've gotten Matthews and/or Marner going. The fact that it wasn't even considered is disappointing

 

[bossram]

View attachment 453006

It's kind of strange criticism saying the Leafs were "too soft", when they lost to Montreal because they couldn't score.

Half the board, and all of of the MSM, were praising Dubas for getting "tough, character guys" like Bogosian, Simmonds, and Foligno. Now you're all walking it back again. Just bizarre.

 

[Smif]

Not surprising. Dubas is basically gambling his job at this point though running the big 4 with very few changes to the roster.

I'm fine staying the course, I think our division could be a lot weaker this year.

Tampa - losing a lot of players due to salary.
Boston - 4 of their top players (Marchand, Bergeron, Krejci, Rask) are now 33 to 36 years old.
Montreal - not sold they're legit.
Florida - Tough to gauge if their a legit team or not.
Buffalo - LOL
Ottawa - Couple years away still, IMO.

 

[rumman]

It's kind of strange criticism saying the Leafs were "too soft", when they lost to Montreal because they couldn't score.

Half the board, and all of of the MSM, were praising Dubas for getting "tough, character guys" like Bogosian, Simmonds, and Foligno. Now you're all walking it back again. Just bizarre.

I’ll give you Bogo, but Simmons, Folino, Thorton, didn’t make the team tougher, they made it older and slower with nary a increase in toughness. And btw what exactly am I “walking back?”

 

[WTFMAN99]

I'm fine staying the course, I think our division could be a lot weaker this year.

Tampa - losing a lot of players due to salary.
Boston - 4 of their top players (Marchand, Bergeron, Krejci, Rask) are now 33 to 36 years old.
Montreal - not sold they're legit.
Florida - Tough to gauge if their a legit team or not.
Buffalo - LOL
Ottawa - Couple years away still, IMO.

Tampa - Losing players, still have best D and G in the league, probably gonna find a way to lose 1, maybe 2 forwards.

Boston - Getting older but always good

Montreal - Competitive

Florida - Compeittive

Ottawa - Getting better, play us hard

BUF/DET - Not really anything.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Well since it never happened, we'll never know. But maybe a temporary split could've gotten Matthews and/or Marner going. The fact that it wasn't even considered is disappointing

He probably considered it, but then thought "well Mitch and Zach not going to do better away from Auston" and "they are generating opportunities so it has to go in at some point".

The latter did not happen obviously. For other coaches, it did happen.

 

[Martin Skoula]

It's kind of strange criticism saying the Leafs were "too soft", when they lost to Montreal because they couldn't score.

Half the board, and all of of the MSM, were praising Dubas for getting "tough, character guys" like Bogosian, Simmonds, and Foligno. Now you're all walking it back again. Just bizarre.

Don't forget Dubas is obsessed with adding small offensive defensemen like Bogo, Muzzin, Brodie, Holl, Hutton. He's also apparently an idiot for letting Barrie walk.

 

[rumman]

Don't forget Dubas is obsessed with adding small offensive defensemen like Bogo, Muzzin, Brodie, Holl, Hutton. He's also apparently an idiot for letting Barrie walk.

He’s a idiot for trading for Barrie in the first place, that’s for damn sure.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Tampa - Losing players, still have best D and G in the league, probably gonna find a way to lose 1, maybe 2 forwards.

Boston - Getting older but always good

Montreal - Competitive

Florida - Compeittive

Ottawa - Getting better, play us hard

BUF/DET - Not really anything.

I am not really sure how competitive Montreal will be outside of Covid... Florida is a major question mark now that they are in a tougher division and Boston looked like age was starting to catch up with them a lot more often last year. They were playing in a division that suited them well too... With the likes of Tampa, Florida, and the Leafs, they may have a lot more trouble.

Our division is still strong, but outside of the obvious (Tampa), there should be no excuse as to why the Leafs cannot win even if they run back much of the same team... Just like the last 3 years when they should have won every single series.

 

[Smif]

Tampa - Losing players, still have best D and G in the league, probably gonna find a way to lose 1, maybe 2 forwards.

Boston - Getting older but always good

Montreal - Competitive

Florida - Compeittive

Ottawa - Getting better, play us hard

BUF/DET - Not really anything.

Tampa is going to lose their entire 3rd line plus someone else.

Goodrow - Gourde - Coleman, gone.

Still good though, yes.

 

[ACC1224]

It's kind of strange criticism saying the Leafs were "too soft", when they lost to Montreal because they couldn't score.

Half the board, and all of of the MSM, were praising Dubas for getting "tough, character guys" like Bogosian, Simmonds, and Foligno. Now you're all walking it back again. Just bizarre.

The criticism is that they don't play hard enough, not that they're too soft.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I am not really sure how competitive Montreal will be outside of Covid... Florida is a major question mark now that they are in a tougher division and Boston looked like age was starting to catch up with them a lot more often last year. They were playing in a division that suited them well too... With the likes of Tampa, Florida, and the Leafs, they may have a lot more trouble.

Our division is still strong, but outside of the obvious (Tampa), there should be no excuse as to why the Leafs cannot win even if they run back much of the same team... Just like the last 3 years when they should have won every single series.

Boston losing Kase and likely going to change up their top 6-9 forward group, it's still good. Might catch them on some nights though due to age of the group but still very good.

I don't want to say "should have won" - should/deserve aren't in the vocabulary in sports. You earn things. Leafs haven't earned shit yet with this group which is why there isn't a ton of optimism with them, only they can change the narrative.

Tampa is going to lose their entire 3rd line plus someone else.

Goodrow - Gourde - Coleman, gone.

Still good though, yes.

Speculation and we have no idea until we know but if they could convince Stamkos to depart or Johnson+ other forward...maybe they can keep parts intact but their core, that delivers will mostly be in tact. It's a damned good team.

 

[Smif]

Well they clearly didn't play like it in the Montreal series. Soft as butter.

Especially Justin holl. How are you 6'3 and still get constantly ragdolled on the ice. Embarrasing

I've never once in my life seen Holl get ragdolled, what are you talking about?

 

[Cor]

Tampa is going to lose their entire 3rd line plus someone else.

Goodrow - Gourde - Coleman, gone.

Still good though, yes.

2nd line**

 

[ryno23]

He’s a idiot for trading for Barrie in the first place, that’s for damn sure.

Wasn't his first choice. Brodie was his 1st choice but Kardi vetoed the trade with his NTC. Barrie was a backup choice.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Tampa is going to lose their entire 3rd line plus someone else.

Goodrow - Gourde - Coleman, gone.

Still good though, yes.

I imagine Johnson will be gone too. Probably will pay Seattle to take him.

I think they move Palat instead of Gourde, and that will likely cover the cost to get Seattle to take Johnson off of their hands. Only one year left on his deal makes him a lot easier to move.

Formulate a bottom 6 out of Barre-Boulet, Gourde, Stephens, Joseph, Smith, Colton, Maroon, Ryfors, Katchouk, Raddysh, and bargain bin UFA's + sign a cheap backup and defensive depth in UFA as well. That will likely take up most of their money but whatever they have left goes towards replacing Palat.

 

[Cor]

I imagine Johnson will be gone too. Probably will pay Seattle to take him.

I think they move Palat instead of Gourde, and that will likely cover the cost to get Seattle to take Johnson off of their hands. Only one year left on his deal makes him a lot easier to move.

Formulate a bottom 6 out of Barre-Boulet, Gourde, Stephens, Joseph, Smith, Colton, Maroon, Ryfors, Katchouk, Raddysh, and bargain bin UFA's + sign a cheap backup and defensive depth in UFA as well. That will likely take up most of their money but whatever they have left goes towards replacing Palat.

I had a dream we acquired Palat from them.

No idea what the return was, but for some reason there was a massive introductory presser because we acquired him, and everyone was losing their shit like Palat was the god of hockey coming to the mecca of hockey lmao