GDT: Trades & Free Agency -- Off-season edition

[JKG33]

Tin foil hat theory i've sorta read on here before...

Shanny was hired to self sabotage the leafs while still making them money (so it doesn't look "too obvious") and in return he climb the corporate ladder. Future NHL commish is what he's aiming for. If he can defeat the immortal Bettman. Showdown of the century.

I do love a good conspiracy lmao

 

[TMLAM34]

Interesting, but that top 4 is real expensive and real soft. Maybe someone cheaper and meaner instead of Pesce could work. I don't remember if Zadorov can play the right side, but if so, he'd be swell.

Think it would need to be someone other than Zadorov, otherwise you’re left with only one right handed defenceman. Chatfield could be an option. Rielly - Chatfield.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

That won't be cheap, we have to be moving cap out if that's the plan

If you dump Jarnkrok/Kampf/Reaves it is easily doable. We have $20M as it stands today. Fix the defense first (you can go 10% over that cap in the summer if you need too). and then figure out that part later.

 

[hamzarocks]

If you trade Rielly you're right back in the same position of needing another top pair guy

I did a cap friendly and had 3M in cap savings left with this defense

Skeji (7.5Mx 7) - Theodore (5.25M x 1) -
McCabe (2M x 1) - Montour (6.5M x 7)
Benoit (1.3ishM x 2) - Demelo/Tanev/Walker/Zadorov (4.5M x 4 - can go up to 5.5M since we have 3.1M in space with 21 player roster)

Forward lines were:

Bert - Matthews - Domi
Knies - Tavares - Nylander
Tomasino - Drury - Robertson
Jarnkrok - Holmberg - McMann

Thompson
Woll

Trades:

1. Marner for thompson + theodore

2. Rielly to Carolina for Jack drury + 2024 1st + 2024 3rd

3. Lilijgren for Tomasino + 2024 3rd

4. Kamp to CBJ(any team wanting a 4C) for 2025 4th and 2026 6th

your right if we trade rielly for equal cap in than we cant add 2 top 4D on top of Theodore.

I dealt for a late 1st and Drury (3C level player as soon as next year)

We can add a #2D in Skeji, #3D in Montour & #4D in Demelo/Tanev/Walker/Zadorv under this build model

Our goalies if we dealt marner under this trade would be quite good and cost less then 2M which is incredible for next year

 

[conFABulator]

I may not be adding anything new here, perhaps summarizing some posters I have agreed with and my own thoughts as well.

This team needs a change. Adding a new GM (last year) and a new coach is a very good start. I do believe that Berube is a good add and the type of coach we need.

Our roster has holes in it. We need middle six C, a couple of top four D, and a G. Across the board we need to think about grit, penalty killing, and playoff performers.

Yes, we have cap space but not enough to fill all of this holes.We need to move salary out. The two obvious candidates are Marner and Tavares.

I really don't believe moving out JT is an option. I don't think they ask our captain and hometown boy to waive his NMC. I do believe he gives us a honey of a hometown discount on the next deal and I think it would be wise to sign that this July 1st. 3 x $2.5m?

There is no such hometown discount coming from Marner. We ask/force him to waive and we move him this off-season. I won't dream up trades in this thread, so I will go to a tried and true scenario of Marner to Seattle for Wright and Larsson (or Oleksiak). It gives us a F (prospect), a top four D, and $6M in cap space.

Adding another F (Wright) would add to a glut we have, even with Marner out. We really need to consider moving out Kampf and Jarnkrok. Call that another $4.5M in space.

I will stop her, because the rest would be me making up what we can do from here. My point is this, if we do the above (Marner, Kampf and Jarnkrok out) and resign Liljegren ($2.5M), Dewar ($950K), and Robertson ($1.1M) we find ourselves in the following position:

FORWARDS
Matthews
Nylander
Tavares
XXXXX
Knies
XXXXX
McMann
Robertson
Wright
Jarnkrok
Holmberg
Dewar
XXXXX (13th)

DEFENCE
Rielly
XXXXX
Larsson/Oleksiak
XXXXX
McCabe
Benoit
Liljegren

GOALIE
Woll
XXXXX
XXXXX

Let's say we fill the 13 F position from within with Cowan or Minten or Grebenkin or Hirvonen or Steeves. This would leave us with $25M in cap space for:

Top 9 F
Top 9 F
Top 4 D
Top 4 D
2A/1B G
3 G

That's enough to go shopping, right? That's enough change, right? This is why we have to move Marner, right? Even for a less than awesome return, right?

How would you shop for the XXXXX's?

Me?

Domi @ $3.5M
Bertuzzi or Debrusk @ $5M
Skjei @ $7M
Roy/Tanev @ $5M
Brossoit/Stolarz @ $3M
Jones @ $850K

Sure I have opinions, but I don’t live in the past, I’m pretty old and have plenty of regrets, but they’re in the past, I don’t dwell on what could have been if I had did things differently……….

That's fair and I appreciate the position and perspective. I don't like living in the past either, would much rather look forward myself.

 

[conFABulator]

I did a cap friendly and had 3M in cap savings left with this defense

Skeji (7.5Mx 7) - Theodore (5.25M x 1) -
McCabe (2M x 1) - Montour (6.5M x 7)
Benoit (1.3ishM x 2) - Demelo/Tanev/Walker/Zadorov (4.5M x 4 - can go up to 5.5M since we have 3.1M in space with 21 player roster)

Forward lines were:

Bert - Matthews - Domi
Knies - Tavares - Nylander
Tomasino - Drury - Robertson
Jarnkrok - Holmberg - McMann

Thompson
Woll

Trades:

1. Marner for thompson + theodore

2. Rielly to Carolina for Jack drury + 2024 1st + 2024 3rd

3. Lilijgren for Tomasino + 2024 3rd

4. Kamp to CBJ(any team wanting a 4C) for 2025 4th and 2026 6th

your right if we trade rielly for equal cap in than we cant add 2 top 4D on top of Theodore.

I dealt for a late 1st and Drury (3C level player as soon as next year)

We can add a #2D in Skeji, #3D in Montour & #4D in Demelo/Tanev/Walker/Zadorv under this build model

Our goalies if we dealt marner under this trade would be quite good and cost less then 2M which is incredible for next year

That's really interesting and well done. I think Montour gets more, but as you say we have the room to pay a million more.

 

[Legion34]

At the time of the trade I'd take Stone quite easily over present day Marner. The dude is a leader and built for playoff hockey. I agree about the other 2 forwards though.

That's probably still on the high end of an ask but it's not terrible like some of the others. I just don't see a high end prospect and a good roster player being a part of a package together. I think itll be one or the other with a late 1st and mid prospect type add, like most other UFA to be trades.

Eichel was also a center on top of being of RFA age (with a nice long term contract at a fair cap hit).

Teams aren't going to be lining up to pay a winger $11+m AND give up quality roster pieces to do it

Eichel was a 10 million dollar malcontent who came off of 2 goals and demanding an contentious neck surgery n

Frank has his opinion.

From what I gather it is without evidence, just pure conjecture.

Doesn't impact my opinion, which is without evidence, other than his team saying he intends to be in Toronto to honour his contractual obligations. Which the team has as well.

Frank is generally pretty good.
He knew lehner was done. New all the Arizona stuff.

He tends to tell it how it is a doesn’t hedge.

 

[TheDoldrums]

I really don’t like Theodore being the main piece in a Marner trade. Offensive LHD with no physicality, turning 29 this summer and about to get expensive. What about that makes sense for our long term success or team composition?

If we have to deal with Vegas I’d rather have Roy, Whitecloud and their 1st. Those two are cost controlled for a combined 7 years, allows us to spend a lot more over the next few years whereas Theodore would eat up a ton of cap on his next deal. Then we let Wes Clark cook with another 1st or use both to move up for an impact prospect.

 

[ER89]

I did a cap friendly and had 3M in cap savings left with this defense

Skeji (7.5Mx 7) - Theodore (5.25M x 1) -
McCabe (2M x 1) - Montour (6.5M x 7)
Benoit (1.3ishM x 2) - Demelo/Tanev/Walker/Zadorov (4.5M x 4 - can go up to 5.5M since we have 3.1M in space with 21 player roster)

Forward lines were:

Bert - Matthews - Domi
Knies - Tavares - Nylander
Tomasino - Drury - Robertson
Jarnkrok - Holmberg - McMann

Thompson
Woll

Trades:

1. Marner for thompson + theodore

2. Rielly to Carolina for Jack drury + 2024 1st + 2024 3rd

3. Lilijgren for Tomasino + 2024 3rd

4. Kamp to CBJ(any team wanting a 4C) for 2025 4th and 2026 6th

your right if we trade rielly for equal cap in than we cant add 2 top 4D on top of Theodore.

I dealt for a late 1st and Drury (3C level player as soon as next year)

We can add a #2D in Skeji, #3D in Montour & #4D in Demelo/Tanev/Walker/Zadorv under this build model

Our goalies if we dealt marner under this trade would be quite good and cost less then 2M which is incredible for next year

i would f***ing j i z z for days if we nabbed skjei AND theodore.

Days.....

Call a doctor after 4 hours? No

days.....

I really don’t like Theodore being the main piece in a Marner trade. Offensive LHD with no physicality, turning 29 this summer and about to get expensive. What about that makes sense for our long term success or team composition?

If we have to deal with Vegas I’d rather have Roy, Whitecloud and whatever futures they have left.

well when paired with mcnabb he was allowed to essentially dominate and create in the o zone and then he isn't a tyson barrie on the d zone.

Pair him with mccabe and boom. Although thats two leftys so who knows if they're comfy playing the other side.

 

[weems]

I really don’t like Theodore being the main piece in a Marner trade. Offensive LHD with no physicality, turning 29 this summer and about to get expensive. What about that makes sense for our long term success or team composition?

I can understand not wanting him as the main piece coming back but all I've heard since the season ended was how deficient we are at moving the puck from the back end and our total lack of offense from the D?

I would say his offensive skillset definitely fits a current team need.

 

[ER89]

I can understand not wanting him as the main piece coming back but all I've heard since the season ended was how deficient we are at moving the puck from the back end and our total lack of offense from the D?

I would say his offensive skillset definitely fits a current team need.

yep like look pesce and roy would help the backend A LOT.

But id imagine our scoring problems in the playoffs would persist.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Interesting to hear a rumour with actual names linked to Marner in a trade.

 

[JKG33]

Eichel was a 10 million dollar malcontent who came off of 2 goals and demanding an contentious neck surgery

Tell me how you'd feel if your employer tried to dictate what kind of neck surgery you can/can't have

 

[Legion34]

Tell me how you'd feel if your employer tried to dictate what kind of neck surgery you can/can't have

I don’t disagree. What I’m saying is any suspected attitude issues for Marner applied 10 fold for Eichel.

 

[JKG33]

I don’t disagree. What I’m saying is any suspected attitude issues for Marner applied 10 fold for Eichel.

Nah, one of them had a legitimate reason to quit on their team. The other demanded an overpayment, pouted to get a coach fired, and has been a diva his whole career.

What Friedman said on that Leafs podcast this morning was telling, about how Keefe had to handle Marner differently from Nylander & Matthews, because Marner is a thin skinned p***y

 

[Legion34]

Nah, one of them had a legitimate reason to quit on their team. The other demanded an overpayment, pouted to get a coach fired, and has been a diva his whole career.

What Friedman said on that Leafs podcast this morning was telling, about how Keefe had to handle Marner differently from Nylander & Matthews, because Marner is a thin skinned p***y

Ummmm when ? He quit on the team
For years. His post season pressers were legendary.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

Theodore + Thompson would be an excellent return for Marner.

I hope he can pull off something like that.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Tell me how you'd feel if your employer tried to dictate what kind of neck surgery you can/can't have

Buffalo is a f***ing mess.

They have some great young assets but until that ownership changes they aren't winning shit. The most under-the-radar ownership hellstorm in the league.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Nah, one of them had a legitimate reason to quit on their team. The other demanded an overpayment, pouted to get a coach fired, and has been a diva his whole career.

What Friedman said on that Leafs podcast this morning was telling, about how Keefe had to handle Marner differently from Nylander & Matthews, because Marner is a thin skinned p***y

Eichel got multiple coaches fired and played GM before the neck became a problem, if you want to tell me he’s better than Marner and the character issues ended up being overblown I won’t argue but at the time of the trade he had a much more publicly toxic reputation with more baggage than Marner did. The only real upside he had over Marner at the time of the trade was contract length but that was a coin flip on whether it would be an asset or an anchor.

 

[ULF_55]

What Friedman said on that Leafs podcast this morning was telling, about how Keefe had to handle Marner differently from Nylander & Matthews, because Marner is a thin skinned p***y

Yeah, he strongly stated his opinion that marner is emotionally glass.
Matthews is strong, but Nylander is way above Matthews as far as thick skin goes.
Not sure I completely agree, I think it isn't thick skin so much as trying to hit fog with a bat.

Had some opinions on what the Leafs are trying to do this summer, 2 defenders who'd probably be 2nd. pairing.

My interpretation on what he said about Domi and Bertuzzi is Domi being the better fit, and maybe more doable long term.

 

[Americanadian]

If you trade Rielly you're right back in the same position of needing another top pair guy

It depends who they find in UFA.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Yeah, he strongly stated his opinion that marner is emotionally glass.
Matthews is strong, but Nylander is way above Matthews as far as thick skin goes.
Not sure I completely agree, I think it isn't thick skin so much as trying to hit fog with a bat.

Had some opinions on what the Leafs are trying to do this summer, 2 defenders who'd probably be 2nd. pairing.

My interpretation on what he said about Domi and Bertuzzi is Domi being the better fit, and maybe more doable long term.

Sounds like Domi would be re-signed as long as he doesn’t price himself out.

Not sure how I feel about Theodore as the big piece for Marner. Not a bad return I suppose as long as Theodore can be re-signed for a reasonable amount.

While Theodore-Rielly offers excellent puck movement and offense, it doesn’t leave some issues in the defensive end.

 

[Kiwi]

What the hell am I reading?

Coaches treat players differently so that they can get the best out of them

Some guys need a bit of tough love every now and then to help them stay focused
Just like some guys need a softer touch to get the best out of them

People are different, they need different things to motivate and help them progress

Marner isn't a bad person because he doesn't react to tough love like Nylander does, there's nothing wrong with a coach treating guys differently to help improve everybody's performance

That's just good coaching

 

[BertCorbeau]

Maybe a plan would be to get Theodore, move Liljegren and sign Pesce? Bring in someone like Carrier or Tanev?

Rielly-Pesce
Theodore-Carrier/Tanev
Benoit-McCabe

 

[TMLAM34]

Even though Theodore alone wouldn’t be enough for Marner, getting Thompson would be really good. Allows us to put more money into the blueline this year and then when JT’s contract comes off the books, re-sign both Thompson and Woll.