GDT: Trades & Free Agency -- Off-season edition

[aingefan]

There’s an argument for that prespective in the bolded. It’s something I wrestle with a bit, but I don’t think the idea of trading a 1st for the right goaltender is at all wrong necessarily. We’ve tried bargain shopping on our goaltending a few times and it’s turned it roughly how one might expect for us.

As for the first paragraph, fully agree. Markstrom to me was a riskier proposition than the others would be, especially Saros. If we could bring in Saros, and get him extended I’m more than comfortable moving a 1st in that kind of move.



How close to NHL ready is this kid considered?

What exactly are the rules for kids who don’t sign with their teams?
I’m not clear on that. Some seem to re-enter the draft, others become free agents.
Can anyone clarify?

Ps, I think I remember McGroarty really rising at the draft and being picked earlier than expected, and liking the sounds of his profile.

 

[pspot]

If Florida loses

Ekblad, Knight and rights to Heponiemi for Marner and rights to Liljergen

Leafs get a big RHD , a young playmaker in Heponiemi and Knight who is a risk but only 23 and still has a high ceiling with a floor of next Campbell

Panthers get an elite playmaker to help their PP (they resign Montour)

 

[thusk]

There is a big difference between signing a bad defenseman, who is known to be bad, and two forwards, who have had mixed success.

Anybody paying any amount of attention, or who watched him at all, knew Klingberg was, and continues to be a terrible player defensively.

""

And you know we talked about a dman we talked about a d who rejected an 7M/8 year from contract from Dallas like 1 year before joining Toronto and Toronto signed him basically at half of this price and you still saying its an awful risk.

 

[Torontonian]

Vegas won the cup with Adin Hill only playing a total of 88 career NHL games. The idea that your team can only win a Stanley cup is if your goalie played 300 games or more is crazy. St. Louis won the cup in Binnington first NHL season.

Even if we traded for Saros, do you believe that the playoff would be any different, when our Powerplay was at 4%.

Both Vegas and St Louis insulated Hill and Binnington by having solid d-zone structure, and were not a mess like how Toronto is and has been. Wonder who the common d-man on both those teams are as well...

You can't fix this team in one off season, it's going to take a few off seasons to do, but you can fix it's d-core and goaltending situation this year and moving forward for the next 5 years by signing one or two of the top d-man and trading for Saros. And then work on the forwards next off season when you have more money to work with.

Talbot disappear? He played over 50 games and had better than average numbers

You also realize we can sign a good #3G to mitigate the risk of Woll and Stolarz/Brossoit

I wouldn't bet on a 36 year old Talbot who put up a 5.30 GA and .861 save% in the playoffs this year.

The team needs to stop putting band-aids solutions on big problems. They been doing it for 8 years now, and it hasn't worked.. Why do it again?

 

[Menzinger]

And you know we talked about a dman we talked about a d who rejected an 7M/8 year from contract from Dallas like 1 year before joining Toronto and Toronto signed him basically at half of this price and you still saying its an awful risk.

It depends on what you mean by risk.

It was a good signing from a financial/term perspective. A gamble without risk here.

It was however also a gamble that he'd be able to regain to form and be able to carry the D's puck moving needs. A very big gamble here considering he hadn't been capable of handling that task for a couple seasons at that point and there was no plan B on the team if he flopped.

 

[ULF_55]

I don't give a ****, he's better than every prospect in the organization

I'd happily trade any one of them for him so let them be pissed off, be better than him then you can whinge about it

How do we know "he's better than every prospect in the organization"?
We don't, but I respect that is your opinion.

Adam Fox, Norris winner, got a 2nd. and 3rd. for Carolina after he told them he was returning to school.

If his "handler" agrees to join the Leafs, they can always give him a guarantee that he plays in the NHL, and then if he isn't good enough he can go to the Marlies. Once he signs he has to honour the contract.

Teams can always use more futures.
Be nice to see some okay size with Grebyonkin 6'2", 192 lb. (KHL Champion), Minten 6'2", 194 lb. (Team Canada Captain), McGroaty 6'1", 205 lb., and lacking size but , Minten Cowan (OHL MVP, .etc.).

Rutger McGroarty

August 2024 - The Pittsburgh Penguins acquired Rutger McGroarty from the Winnipeg Jets on August 22, 2024, for 2023 first-round (14th overall) pick Brayden Yager. The Penguins wasted no time getting their new top prospect under contract, signing McGroarty to a three-year entry-level contract the...

dobberprospects.com

A highly skilled, competitive, versatile forward who can play on the wing and center. Lacks high-end speed and needs to improve his overall skating. He has the size, strength, and leadership qualities to go along with the scoring ability and hockey IQ to develop into a reliable two-way top-six multi-category fantasy option that will contribute to both the powerplay and penalty kill.

In keeping with other NCAA players threatening to go to free agency, 23rd. overall, and Cade Webber/prospect not listed above, is a good return

 

[Kiwi]

Both Vegas and St Louis insulated Hill and Binnington by having solid d-zone structure, and were not a mess like how Toronto is and has been. Wonder who the common d-man on both those teams are as well...

You can't fix this team in one off season, it's going to take a few off seasons to do, but you can fix it's d-core and goaltending situation this year and moving forward for the next 5 years by signing one or two of the top d-man and trading for Saros. And then work on the forwards next off season when you have more money to work with.


I wouldn't bet on a 36 year old Talbot who put up a 5.30 GA and .861 save% in the playoffs this year.

The team needs to stop putting band-aids solutions on big problems. They been doing it for 8 years now, and it hasn't worked.. Why do it again?

Because goaltending hasn't been the reason we've struggled to advance

We score 2 goals a game, no wonder we can't win anything
We need forward depth (which is improving) and puck movers on the backend (which cost money)

There's better things to spend our money on

 

[Avilaj07]

To Toronto-
McGroarty

To Jets-
Liljegren
Robertson

 

[ULF_55]

I think we as fans overstate the loyalty of some prospects. If he has no connection to the team or city, they're more inclined to make things fully about business.

Jets are more than free to clear space for him if they do choose. And seems like they choose not to.

So their evaluation doesn't paint a great picture of their opinion on his abilities to play in the NHL this year.

 

[ULF_55]

Because goaltending hasn't been the reason we've struggled to advance

We score 2 goals a game, no wonder we can't win anything
We need forward depth (which is improving) and puck movers on the backend (which cost money)

There's better things to spend our money on

Look at Panthers, Bobrovsky falls off his peak and their offense dries up.

More concerned now about goaltending now, rather than just flying offensively?

 

[ULF_55]

To Toronto-
McGroarty

+Negotiation rights to Demelo?

To Jets-
Liljegren
Robertson

 

[Torontonian]

Because goaltending hasn't been the reason we've struggled to advance

We score 2 goals a game, no wonder we can't win anything
We need forward depth (which is improving) and puck movers on the backend (which cost money)

There's better things to spend our money on

Oh boy. We haven't been watching the same team if you don't think goaltending is a major factor on why we can't advance. We constantly have the 2nd best goalie in every series. Asking your team on average to score 4 goals a game with Samsonov in net is a major reason why they can't win. 5 years with this core has had to score 4 goals almost every game to win. Unsustainable.

3		Ilya Samsonov	2022-23	TOR	9	9	4	4	0	255	229	.898	26	3.13	0	498
4		Ilya Samsonov	2023-24	TOR	5	5	1	4	0	135	121	.896	14	3.01

1		Jack Campbell	2020-21	TOR	7	7	3	4	0	197	184	.934	13	1.81	1	431
2		Jack Campbell	2021-22	TOR	7	7	3	4	0	203	182	.897	21	3.15	1	400

5

Frederik Andersen

2017-18

TOR

7

7

3

3

0

221

198

.896

23

3.76

0

Team has issues scoring goals come playoff time no doubt, but you'll never win anything when numbers like above are your starting goaltender stats in the playoffs.

 

[Kiwi]

How do we know "he's better than every prospect in the organization"?
We don't, but I respect that is your opinion.

Adam Fox, Norris winner, got a 2nd. and 3rd. for Carolina after he told them he was returning to school.

If his "handler" agrees to join the Leafs, they can always give him a guarantee that he plays in the NHL, and then if he isn't good enough he can go to the Marlies. Once he signs he has to honour the contract.

Teams can always use more futures.
Be nice to see some okay size with Grebyonkin 6'2", 192 lb. (KHL Champion), Minten 6'2", 194 lb. (Team Canada Captain), McGroaty 6'1", 205 lb., and lacking size but , Minten Cowan (OHL MVP, .etc.).

Rutger McGroarty

August 2024 - The Pittsburgh Penguins acquired Rutger McGroarty from the Winnipeg Jets on August 22, 2024, for 2023 first-round (14th overall) pick Brayden Yager. The Penguins wasted no time getting their new top prospect under contract, signing McGroarty to a three-year entry-level contract the...

dobberprospects.com

A highly skilled, competitive, versatile forward who can play on the wing and center. Lacks high-end speed and needs to improve his overall skating. He has the size, strength, and leadership qualities to go along with the scoring ability and hockey IQ to develop into a reliable two-way top-six multi-category fantasy option that will contribute to both the powerplay and penalty kill.

In keeping with other NCAA players threatening to go to free agency, 23rd. overall, and Cade Webber/prospect not listed above, is a good return

52 points in 36 games in the NCAA and he projects as a center at the next level

I'd trade Cowan for him straight up, that's how highly I rate him

I'd do #23 OA + Minten + Liljegren for him to

He solves our 2C problem once Tavares goes and he's good enough to play right now, I'd happily trade Jarnkrok or Robertson to give him playing time

Look at Panthers, Bobrovsky falls off his peak and their offense dries up.

More concerned now about goaltending now, rather than just flying offensively?

You don't win if you can't score, we've proven thst

 

[RunItBackAgain]

I have negative interest in Montour. He looks stupid with the puck on his stick, definitely, definitely, a downgrade on Rielly's PP skills. Unless he wants like a 4M contract I don't want him.

 

[ULF_55]

52 points in 36 games in the NCAA and he projects as a center at the next level

I'd trade Cowan for him straight up, that's how highly I rate him

I'd do #23 OA + Minten + Liljegren for him to

He solves our 2C problem once Tavares goes and he's good enough to play right now, I'd happily trade Jarnkrok or Robertson to give him playing time

My guess is the Jets monitored him extremely closely and know everything about him.

They don't think he's ready, and don't think he can play in the NHL today.

So no disrespect but their opinion perhaps has a little more value?

 

[RunItBackAgain]

52 points in 36 games in the NCAA and he projects as a center at the next level

I'd trade Cowan for him straight up, that's how highly I rate him

I'd do #23 OA + Minten + Liljegren for him to

He solves our 2C problem once Tavares goes and he's good enough to play right now, I'd happily trade Jarnkrok or Robertson to give him playing time



You don't win if you can't score, we've proven thst

NCAA stats notorious translate very poorly to the NHL. He's on a very stacked team, makes me wary. No chance I trade Cowan for him. I'd do Minten, Lilly, and a low pick.

 

[Kiwi]

Oh boy. We haven't been watching the same team if you don't think goaltending is a major factor on why we can't advance. We constantly have the 2nd best goalie in every series. Asking your team on average to score 4 goals a game with Samsonov in net is a major reason why they can't win. 5 years with this core has had to score 4 goals almost every game to win. Unsustainable.

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[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Ilya Samsonov[/TD]
[TD]2022-23[/TD]
[TD]TOR[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]255[/TD]
[TD]229[/TD]
[TD].898[/TD]
[TD]26[/TD]
[TD]3.13[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]498[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Ilya Samsonov[/TD]
[TD]2023-24[/TD]
[TD]TOR[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]135[/TD]
[TD]121[/TD]
[TD].896[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]3.01[/TD]
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[TD]2020-21[/TD]
[TD]TOR[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]197[/TD]
[TD]184[/TD]
[TD].934[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]1.81[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]431[/TD]
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[TD]2021-22[/TD]
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[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]203[/TD]
[TD]182[/TD]
[TD].897[/TD]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD]3.15[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]400[/TD]
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[TD]2017-18[/TD]
[TD]TOR[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]221[/TD]
[TD]198[/TD]
[TD].896[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD]3.76[/TD]
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Team has issues scoring goals come playoff time no doubt, but you'll never win anything when numbers like above are your starting goaltender stats in the playoffs.

We've got a guy with a 934 in there and lost that series to, we've also had guys like Woll play well and lost because we can't score goals

You score 2 goals a game your going to need at least a 935%, best of luck with that

 

[RunItBackAgain]

We've got a guy with a 934 in there and lost that series to, we've also had guys like Woll play well and lost because we can't score goals

You score 2 goals a game your going to need at least a 935%, best of luck with that

When 40% of the players on the ice are boat anchors who can't handle a pass or make a play when they do handle a pass it gets tough. If you're Matthews are you going to play dipsydoodle with Marner or pray that one of our 1M defenceman can make a play? We need a better team in general.

 

[Kiwi]

My guess is the Jets monitored him extremely closely and know everything about him.

They don't think he's ready, and don't think he can play in the NHL today.

So no disrespect but their opinion perhaps has a little more value?

There's a reason why nobody wants to play for them and it's not just the weather

Did you see those numbers? He's doing that against men as a 20 year old, that's 20 points more than Knies when he came out and he scored 35 points for us this regular season

I'm more than willing to profit off Winnipeg and there problems

 

[aingefan]

To Toronto-
McGroarty

To Jets-
Liljegren
Robertson

That package should get you two McGroarty’s.

 

[Kiwi]

When 40% of the players on the ice are boat anchors who can't handle a pass or make a play when they do handle a pass it gets tough. If you're Matthews are you going to play dipsydoodle with Marner or pray that one of our 1M defenceman can make a play? We need a better team in general.

The backend needs sorting now, center wouldn't hurt either

 

[BertCorbeau]

Definitely getting more interest in Colton if he’s available

 

[Kiwi]

That package should get you two McGroarty’s.

Bloody hell, if you think somebody else won't come up with a better package than that your crazy

 

[the real Fox mulder]

Both Vegas and St Louis insulated Hill and Binnington by having solid d-zone structure, and were not a mess like how Toronto is and has been. Wonder who the common d-man on both those teams are as well...

You can't fix this team in one off season, it's going to take a few off seasons to do, but you can fix it's d-core and goaltending situation this year and moving forward for the next 5 years by signing one or two of the top d-man and trading for Saros. And then work on the forwards next off season when you have more money to work with.


I wouldn't bet on a 36 year old Talbot who put up a 5.30 GA and .861 save% in the playoffs this year.

The team needs to stop putting band-aids solutions on big problems. They been doing it for 8 years now, and it hasn't worked.. Why do it again?

Spot on. We can't fix all our problem this off season, but you can make a big dent to it. Why spend asset or cap space on a goalie like Saros, when we could sign Stolarz or Brossoit for half of Saros cap space.

I rather we spend most of the cap space fixing the d corp, so that once the playoff comes Stolarz/Brossoit/Woll are insulated by a strong d corps.

If Woll turns out not to be our goalie, you can fix it next off season with Tavares off the books and Saros, Hill, Shersterkin, Ullmark as free agent. It's better to wait next off season to finally address the goalie issue.

 

[aingefan]

Then let them overpay.