GDT: Trades & Free Agency -- Off-season edition

[ULF_55]

The Kadri trade giving them PTSD because this is the exact same situation, they soured on Kadri and said "we need to trade him cause we can't trust him" and then got bent over. This is what happens when your mindset is "player X needs to go no matter what". It's same the situation only going to look 10x worse cause Marner is a better player.

You're upset Toronto would rather keep a good player like Nylander instead of getting the deal they wanted. I don't think it's a awful mentality to think "We want a quality player back, or we are keeping our quality player, instead of 2 or 3 mediocre pieces"

It hasn't gone Toronto's way in the playoff but to call it "mediocrity" while making the playoffs 8 years in a row (tied with Boston as longest active streak in the NHL might I add and ahead of COL/CAR/TAMPA) is funny. I cant wait till the day till we really see mediocre hockey for 10 years again like prior to the Core4.

The team does free up time in the spring to get the gardens in and paint, do spring cleanup, go on vacation and speculate about next year without the stress of needing to win the next game.

Kadri could have done the same job in Toronto if he didn't lose his head and get suspended on more than one occasion in the playoffs.

Leafs could really use a mature Kadri today. I don't think he'd be intimidated by the Fab Four. He'd be great to have (or a similar player) centering the Leafs 3rd. line. (But not a 33 year old making $7mm for 5 more years. EDIT: he'll be 34 this upcoming season.)

 

[Martin Skoula]

The team does free up time in the spring to get the gardens in and paint, do spring cleanup, go on vacation and speculate about next year without the stress of needing to win the next game.

Kadri could have done the same job in Toronto if he didn't lose his head and get suspended on more than one occasion in the playoffs.

Leafs could really use a mature Kadri today. I don't think he'd be intimidated by the Fab Four. He'd be great to have (or a similar player) centering the Leafs 3rd. line. (But not a 33 year old making $7mm for 5 more years. EDIT: he'll be 34 this upcoming season.)

To be fair Kadri also got suspended in the playoffs with Colorado and had a front row seat to a no name rookie dropping a hat trick on him in an elimination game, the summer before Colorado’s cup year was flooded with Avs fans trying to get rid of him on the trade boards.

The trade was a wake up call but he needed another one and looked awfully close to getting dumped and being stuck taking 1 year show-me deals like Domi. Credit to Kadri for making it work in the end but it wasn’t the rosy “get traded from Toronto and everything is better” route people pretend it was.

 

[Fogelhund]

To be fair Kadri also got suspended in the playoffs with Colorado and had a front row seat to a no name rookie dropping a hat trick on him in an elimination game, the summer before Colorado’s cup year was flooded with Avs fans trying to get rid of him on the trade boards.

The trade was a wake up call but he needed another one and looked awfully close to getting dumped and being stuck taking 1 year show-me deals like Domi.

and before his playoff suspensions here, he had internal suspensions, was called immature publicly, had his parents into the GM's office, run in with coaches.... I get being upset at Dubas for the trade, but some of the blame should sit with Kadri too... who couldn't get his sh!t together while he was here.

 

[Brobust]

I don't get why people are scared that he will play well and possibly win a cup for another team. It's very likely Kadri never turns into the player he is today (who is better than the player who left Toronto) if he doesn't get the wake up call of being traded. Some players need a wake up call to spark a change in their trajectory. Marner could very likely react the same way but it doesn't mean he would ever have that wake up call if he continues to get coddled in Toronto.

How exactly is he being coddled?

 

[Americanadian]

Leafs could really use a mature Kadri today. I don't think he'd be intimidated by the Fab Four. He'd be great to have (or a similar player) centering the Leafs 3rd. line. (But not a 33 year old making $7mm for 5 more years. EDIT: he'll be 34 this upcoming season.)

They missed their chance with ROR. He would have been so good for this team on that contract.

 

[Stephen]

Well, trading Kadri was not wrong in and of itself, the problem was a horrible return. Namely Tyson Barrie on a one year cap retention scheme that limited the window to win that one year. Such a narrow, zero room for error calculation, not to mention a terrible hockey fit. In short, you’d have to be creatively bad and be drunk on self delusion to recreate that kind of return for Marner. Or am I putting too fine a point on this?

 

[Americanadian]

How exactly is he being coddled?

1. Paying him his current contract
2. Playing him with Matthews
3. Not trading him

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Well, trading Kadri was not wrong in and of itself, the problem was a horrible return. Namely Tyson Barrie on a one year cap retention scheme that limited the window to win that one year. Such a narrow, zero room for error calculation, not to mention a terrible hockey fit. In short, you’d have to be creatively bad and be drunk on self delusion to recreate that kind of return for Marner. Or am I putting too fine a point on this?

As usual, you are dead-on IMO.

 

[Stephen]

How exactly is he being coddled?

For a guy with as many high profile big moment eff ups, the organization has been saintly to him over the years. Protecting him from harsh public opinion, walking back “harsh” coaching comments, quick to blame the media.

 

[Americanadian]

Well, trading Kadri was not wrong in and of itself, the problem was a horrible return. Namely Tyson Barrie on a one year cap retention scheme that limited the window to win that one year. Such a narrow, zero room for error calculation, not to mention a terrible hockey fit. In short, you’d have to be creatively bad and be drunk on self delusion to recreate that kind of return for Marner. Or am I putting too fine a point on this?

The Kadri return in today's world would be the equivalent of Pionk+Iafallo.

 

[Fogelhund]

Well, trading Kadri was not wrong in and of itself, the problem was a horrible return. Namely Tyson Barrie on a one year cap retention scheme that limited the window to win that one year. Such a narrow, zero room for error calculation, not to mention a terrible hockey fit. In short, you’d have to be creatively bad and be drunk on self delusion to recreate that kind of return for Marner. Or am I putting too fine a point on this?

The only potential defense, is that was the best offer.... I don't really know... what else was out there we could have traded for at the time? Otherwise you are spot on.

 

[JKG33]

and before his playoff suspensions here, he had internal suspensions, was called immature publicly, had his parents into the GM's office, run in with coaches.... I get being upset at Dubas for the trade, but some of the blame should sit with Kadri too... who couldn't get his sh!t together while he was here.

Dubas looking at Tyson Barrie and thinking "yup, this is who we need" was a problem.

Trading Kadri, who was a selfish piece of shit at every turn, was still the right move. Getting Barrie was the wrong move

 

[Trapper]

That's the exact kind of gutlessness that will prevent us from building a winner.

Management is in charge of the identity they want. Scared and unsure.

I’ll try a number of things to get to where I want. Some will succeed and some will fail.
I’d rather go full ahead instead of sit on my hands for 8 years.

 

[ULF_55]

Well, trading Kadri was not wrong in and of itself, the problem was a horrible return. Namely Tyson Barrie on a one year cap retention scheme that limited the window to win that one year. Such a narrow, zero room for error calculation, not to mention a terrible hockey fit. In short, you’d have to be creatively bad and be drunk on self delusion to recreate that kind of return for Marner. Or am I putting too fine a point on this?

I was okay with Kerfoot. He played his role, and was never expected to be more than he turned into.

Won't talk about the other piece.

 

[ULF_55]

They missed their chance with ROR. He would have been so good for this team on that contract.

I'm not sure what exactly turned him off ... coaching / teammates / leadership (lack of) ...but it seems he was never staying.

 

[Torontonian]

The only potential defense, is that was the best offer.... I don't really know... what else was out there we could have traded for at the time? Otherwise you are spot on.

That's my point, if a bad offer is your best trade offer, then why would you settle for pennies on the dollar for a player rather then just keeping the good player.

Instead you lose a good player, don't get any better, and you look incompetent.

 

[Fogelhund]

Dubas looking at Tyson Barrie and thinking "yup, this is who we need" was a problem.

Trading Kadri, who was a selfish piece of shit at every turn, was still the right move. Getting Barrie was the wrong move

The first attempt was to Calgary for Brodie and Jankowski... but Kadri vetoed that. Brodie would have been a great pickup at the time... Jankowski's career went south shortly after... so we would have had that to be mad about.

10 team no trade clause... so I wonder what options were left, and how many teams expressed interest... we might have been painted into the corner a little.

That's my point, if a bad offer is your best trade offer, then why would you settle for pennies on the dollar for a player rather then just keeping the good player.

Instead you lose a good player, don't get any better, and you look incompetent.

If you get to a point, where the player has left you no choice but to move them.... it's what happens. Addition by subtraction, as we are talking about Marner now. A good player, is of no use, if he's suspended when you need him most.... so a mediocre player, is better to have, than a good player, who can't play... Kadri left them no choice... all history now... and you might disagree... but he was never playing for the Leafs again, no matter what the return was..

 

[rumman]

Management is in charge of the identity they want. Scared and unsure.

I’ll try a number of things to get to where I want. Some will succeed and some will fail.
I’d rather go full ahead instead of sit on my hands for 8 years.

Players won’t do what’s necessary to win in the playoffs, management won’t do what’s necessary to build a good team, they deserve each other. Too bad the fans have to suffer from their respective cowardness…….

 

[TMLAM34]

I think you’re at a point, 8 years later, where you have to ask yourself do you really believe this core four can win you a cup? And the easy answer is, no. They’ve had 8 cracks at the can and have only gotten past the first round ONCE. That’s embarrassing when you have some of the highest (and about to literally have the highest) paid players in the league. We’re about to have over half the salary cap invested in the core four, that’s pure insanity when the four are forwards… And to top it all off, we can’t score when it comes to the playoffs… Something needs to change.

There’s also different way you can win a Marner trade, obviously getting some good players in return but also freeing up valuable cap space. I’ve mentioned Utah who I think would be the best trading partner for Marner. If you can acquire Guenther and McBain along with a draft pick, it allows you to now go big game hunting in UFA and to be able to sign either Montour or Skjei. That’s a pretty good return if you ask me.

 

[DougGilmour93]

This is most likely how it will play out…

1) We ask him to waive (supposedly) and he says no…
2) He comes back next season (keeping the core 4 intact)
3) He goes on a hot streak (dumb fans get excited) and we lock him up long term

Leafs brass keeps him like they want to all along. They just make it seem like they were listening to their fans by toying with the notion of trading him.

4) Marner continues to be invisible in the playoffs as he doesn’t have the ability to elevate his game (evident he doesn’t have the heart nor drive to do what is necessary and go into the difficult areas)

Now, I hope I’m wrong on all accounts.
I hope the Leafs either deal him or Marner grows a pair and matures.

Cheers

 

[Apex Predator]

Dubas looking at Tyson Barrie and thinking "yup, this is who we need" was a problem.

Trading Kadri, who was a selfish piece of shit at every turn, was still the right move. Getting Barrie was the wrong move

I feel like this is an overreaction. He got suspended in the playoffs for sticking up for his team mates. He showed passion which is something the team lacked for years before and after till this year.

Was his suspension ideal…. No it sucked that it happened but to get to the point and call him POS is over the top unless I am missing something else that happened.

 

[Americanadian]

Kiefer Sherwood is excellent value for a 3/4RW at the right price.

He put up 10G/27P in his first full season. He was 12th among NHL forwards in hits despite only playing 68 games. His underlying numbers were very strong. A 4th line of McMann-Holmberg-Sherwood would be strong defensively while also being able to score.

 

[SprDaVE]

Kiefer Sherwood is excellent value for a 3/4RW at the right price.

He put up 10G/27P in his first full season. He was 12th among NHL forwards in hits despite only playing 68 games. His underlying numbers were very strong. A 4th line of McMann-Holmberg-Sherwood would be strong defensively while also being able to score.

I wanted to sign him last time he was a UFA but he went to Nashville. He'd be a good depth piece to target again.

 

[1specter]

Kiefer Sherwood is excellent value for a 3/4RW at the right price.

He put up 10G/27P in his first full season. He was 12th among NHL forwards in hits despite only playing 68 games. His underlying numbers were very strong. A 4th line of McMann-Holmberg-Sherwood would be strong defensively while also being able to score.

I'd sign him for the name alone.

 

[Americanadian]

Justin Bailey is also a good under the radar target for 4RW. 6'4 and 96th percentile skating speed. His underlying numbers were ridiculous this year.

I'd sign him for the name alone.

sure would