GDT: Trades & Free Agency -- Off-season edition

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Fogelhund

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On the latest edition of the 32 Thoughts: The Podcast, Sportsnet's Elliotte Friedman discussed the latest rumblings surrounding the status of Marner in Toronto after an image surfaced across the internet of newly appointed head coach Craig Berube seemingly photographed having coffee with the forward.


As Friedman notes, the goal is not to “pour gasoline on the fire”, but the most recent echoings may turn some heads.

“One of the things a few people have told me is not to be surprised if this plays out over next season with Marner in Toronto,” Friedman said.

“This is such a delicate conversation between player and team because everyone is determined to look like a winner here.”

In the case of the Leafs, the team is determined to make the right move rather than a headline. For instance, the purpose of trading Marner could come with salary cap relief and allow them further to attack a bigger fish via trade or free agency. As Friedman points out, if it comes down to it, they cannot risk a “swing and a miss with this one”.

On the side of Marner, he is searching for the best possible situation – one that will put him and his party in a good light. A pathway he could pursue is betting on himself and playing out the remainder of his contract. Though this could be a legitimate possibility and at the same time, a dicey one, he has to understand the additional pressure and backlash he may receive.

Marner
Though there is little to no clarity regarding the direction the situation is trending towards, Friedman identifies the status of this case as similar to the one of Nazem Kadri in 2019 – which the Leafs do not want to repeat.

“Kadri got suspended twice in a row, there were people at the time who felt very strongly at the time that they had to make that trade but he went somewhere else, sorted himself out, was a critical member of a Stanley Cup Champion, and is a player Toronto very much missed after he left,” Friedman stated.

“I think there are people in the organization who are looking at this and believe, could this be Kadri 2.0’? Where Marner goes somewhere else, the spotlight is less intense, he learns how to balance everything, and goes out and becomes a key player on a Stanley Cup Champion in another city.”

Not every part of the scenario is comparable, but as suggested, it seems to be something that has run through the club's mind. Regardless, if the two sides cannot reason with one another, a split between Marner and Toronto could happen. However, as of right now, Friedman is not convinced of a divorce.

“If the contract demands on both sides are crazy, it’s going to lead to an eventual divorce anyway. I know there are some people saying he’s one hundred percent getting traded, on Sunday, June 2, I don't know if I’m so certain of that.”
 

Evilhomer

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Oct 10, 2019
4,461
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He produced at a 40 goal/65 point pace over 18 games alongside Matthews/Domi. That is the production that I dream on. If he can produce at 75% of that rate over a full season (30G/20A) does that make him at 5M winger? I'd say yes.

He was also directly responsible for the Leafs only goal in game 7.
By tripping a guy?
 

Brobust

Registered User
Sep 29, 2017
7,178
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Tanev at 5Mx2 is a risk I'll take all day long. Similarly I'll take Montour at 7.5M. The Leafs need a 2nd offensive option from the back end and Montour has been the 1D for the Panthers on back to back finals runs. I will absolutely hear the argument that Forsling is better but Montour has been #1 in TOI for the Panthers in the past 2 regular seasons and playoffs. He played 8 minutes more per game than Chatfield this season.

You bring up Tanev being injury prone yet Hakanpaa didn't play a single playoff game this year due to injuries and Tanev was awesome for Dallas in the playoffs. He got injured halfway through round 3 but the Leafs don't need to worry about playing that long into the post season.

As far as the rest of the pieces I'd take Joshua/Roy/Tomasino in the middle of the Leafs lineup and Korczak as potential Tanev replacement in 2026-27 with the same money to spend on 2C/1G in 2025.

So I'm just supposed to accept that Korczak is legitimate piece and Tanev replacement but Chatfield who is a late bloomer with actual NHL experience is not something you can accept?

You didn't make any bad moves but you lost the teams 2nd best player, their 2nd most impacful player, and said f*** replacing him in any meaningful way.

This is nothing more than the just dump Marner for cap space type of people.
 

Dreakmur

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Mar 25, 2008
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It's not hard to see a scenario where he comes back, has a great start to the season just like Nylander did this season, and the Leafs pay him. They aren't going to let him reach UFA status, and just as with Nylander I doubt they will let it drag to the end of the season. If anything, their position may become even more entrenched watching Edmonton make the finals on the back of 4 players.

That's the exact kind of gutlessness that will prevent us from building a winner.
 

Americanadian

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Sep 11, 2016
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So I'm just supposed to accept that Korczak is legitimate piece and Tanev replacement but Chatfield who is a late bloomer with actual NHL experience is not something you can accept?

You didn't make any bad moves but you lost the teams 2nd best player, their 2nd most impacful player, and said f*** replacing him in any meaningful way.

This is nothing more than the just dump Marner for cap space type of people.
I'm talking about Korczak in 2 years playing a 2RD role. 2 years ago Chatfield split his time between the AHL and average <15 minutes/game in 16 games for Carolina. Korczak averaged 16:30 per game and put up very good underlying numbers in 26 games this season. It is not a stretch to say that Korczak will be better than Chatfield 2 years from now.

By tripping a guy?
Correct. If he doesn't get the puck there the Leafs never score.
 

Skullz

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Jul 5, 2013
587
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Chatfield should be a priority target. Young for a UFA, big, RHD, with good underlying numbers and offensive insticts.

Cap is going to go way up. I'd take a gamble on a longer term deal. Something like 3 million by 5 years? Could be a solid RHD for years.
 
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ULF_55

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""

On the latest edition of the 32 Thoughts: The Podcast, Sportsnet's Elliotte Friedman discussed the latest rumblings surrounding the status of Marner in Toronto after an image surfaced across the internet of newly appointed head coach Craig Berube seemingly photographed having coffee with the forward.


As Friedman notes, the goal is not to “pour gasoline on the fire”, but the most recent echoings may turn some heads.

“One of the things a few people have told me is not to be surprised if this plays out over next season with Marner in Toronto,” Friedman said.

“This is such a delicate conversation between player and team because everyone is determined to look like a winner here.”
...
“If the contract demands on both sides are crazy, it’s going to lead to an eventual divorce anyway. I know there are some people saying he’s one hundred percent getting traded, on Sunday, June 2, I don't know if I’m so certain of that.”


So summarize.

marner might be traded.
marner might re-sign.
marner might walk as UFA.

Add words to fill a quota.
 

TMLAM34

Registered User
Oct 15, 2020
5,139
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TO TORONTO: Dylan Guenther + Jack McBain + WSH 2nd Rounder
TO UTAH: Mitch Marner

TO TORONTO: Ty Emberson
TO SAN JOSE: Nick Robertson + Calle Jarnkrok

TO TORONTO: COL 5th Rounder
TO NEW JERSEY: David Kampf

TO TORONTO: Spencer Knight
TO FLORIDA: Timothy Liljegren + WSH 2nd Rounder



UFA Signings:
Chandler Stephenson - 4 years, 6 million per.
Brandon Montour - 7 years, 7 million per.
Tyler Myers - 3 years, 4 million per.



Bertuzzi - Matthews - Domi
Knies - Stephenson - Nylander
McMann - Tavares - Guenther
Holmberg - McBain - Cowan

Rielly - Myers
McCabe - Montour
Benoit - Emberson

Knight - Woll
 

BertCorbeau

F*ck cancer - RIP Fugu and Buffaloed
Jan 6, 2012
56,161
38,168
Simcoe County
""

On the latest edition of the 32 Thoughts: The Podcast, Sportsnet's Elliotte Friedman discussed the latest rumblings surrounding the status of Marner in Toronto after an image surfaced across the internet of newly appointed head coach Craig Berube seemingly photographed having coffee with the forward.


As Friedman notes, the goal is not to “pour gasoline on the fire”, but the most recent echoings may turn some heads.

“One of the things a few people have told me is not to be surprised if this plays out over next season with Marner in Toronto,” Friedman said.

“This is such a delicate conversation between player and team because everyone is determined to look like a winner here.”

In the case of the Leafs, the team is determined to make the right move rather than a headline. For instance, the purpose of trading Marner could come with salary cap relief and allow them further to attack a bigger fish via trade or free agency. As Friedman points out, if it comes down to it, they cannot risk a “swing and a miss with this one”.

On the side of Marner, he is searching for the best possible situation – one that will put him and his party in a good light. A pathway he could pursue is betting on himself and playing out the remainder of his contract. Though this could be a legitimate possibility and at the same time, a dicey one, he has to understand the additional pressure and backlash he may receive.

Marner
Though there is little to no clarity regarding the direction the situation is trending towards, Friedman identifies the status of this case as similar to the one of Nazem Kadri in 2019 – which the Leafs do not want to repeat.

“Kadri got suspended twice in a row, there were people at the time who felt very strongly at the time that they had to make that trade but he went somewhere else, sorted himself out, was a critical member of a Stanley Cup Champion, and is a player Toronto very much missed after he left,” Friedman stated.

“I think there are people in the organization who are looking at this and believe, could this be Kadri 2.0’? Where Marner goes somewhere else, the spotlight is less intense, he learns how to balance everything, and goes out and becomes a key player on a Stanley Cup Champion in another city.”

Not every part of the scenario is comparable, but as suggested, it seems to be something that has run through the club's mind. Regardless, if the two sides cannot reason with one another, a split between Marner and Toronto could happen. However, as of right now, Friedman is not convinced of a divorce.

“If the contract demands on both sides are crazy, it’s going to lead to an eventual divorce anyway. I know there are some people saying he’s one hundred percent getting traded, on Sunday, June 2, I don't know if I’m so certain of that.”


And this is it, the exact issue with how management (Shanahan) has let the roster become stagnant and the culture status quo

The Kadri trade has given them PTSD on making another big move to the core. Now it seems like they're paralyzed with fear of losing the deal.

So they let Nylander ride it out to the point where they had to re-sign him or lose him for nothing. Now they're doing the same with Marner? FFS, this is why we're stuck mediocrity now.

Gutless.
 

Americanadian

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Sep 11, 2016
3,778
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""

On the latest edition of the 32 Thoughts: The Podcast, Sportsnet's Elliotte Friedman discussed the latest rumblings surrounding the status of Marner in Toronto after an image surfaced across the internet of newly appointed head coach Craig Berube seemingly photographed having coffee with the forward.


As Friedman notes, the goal is not to “pour gasoline on the fire”, but the most recent echoings may turn some heads.

“One of the things a few people have told me is not to be surprised if this plays out over next season with Marner in Toronto,” Friedman said.

“This is such a delicate conversation between player and team because everyone is determined to look like a winner here.”

In the case of the Leafs, the team is determined to make the right move rather than a headline. For instance, the purpose of trading Marner could come with salary cap relief and allow them further to attack a bigger fish via trade or free agency. As Friedman points out, if it comes down to it, they cannot risk a “swing and a miss with this one”.

On the side of Marner, he is searching for the best possible situation – one that will put him and his party in a good light. A pathway he could pursue is betting on himself and playing out the remainder of his contract. Though this could be a legitimate possibility and at the same time, a dicey one, he has to understand the additional pressure and backlash he may receive.

Marner
Though there is little to no clarity regarding the direction the situation is trending towards, Friedman identifies the status of this case as similar to the one of Nazem Kadri in 2019 – which the Leafs do not want to repeat.

“Kadri got suspended twice in a row, there were people at the time who felt very strongly at the time that they had to make that trade but he went somewhere else, sorted himself out, was a critical member of a Stanley Cup Champion, and is a player Toronto very much missed after he left,” Friedman stated.

“I think there are people in the organization who are looking at this and believe, could this be Kadri 2.0’? Where Marner goes somewhere else, the spotlight is less intense, he learns how to balance everything, and goes out and becomes a key player on a Stanley Cup Champion in another city.”

Not every part of the scenario is comparable, but as suggested, it seems to be something that has run through the club's mind. Regardless, if the two sides cannot reason with one another, a split between Marner and Toronto could happen. However, as of right now, Friedman is not convinced of a divorce.

“If the contract demands on both sides are crazy, it’s going to lead to an eventual divorce anyway. I know there are some people saying he’s one hundred percent getting traded, on Sunday, June 2, I don't know if I’m so certain of that.”

I don't get why people are scared that he will play well and possibly win a cup for another team. It's very likely Kadri never turns into the player he is today (who is better than the player who left Toronto) if he doesn't get the wake up call of being traded. Some players need a wake up call to spark a change in their trajectory. Marner could very likely react the same way but it doesn't mean he would ever have that wake up call if he continues to get coddled in Toronto.
 

BertCorbeau

F*ck cancer - RIP Fugu and Buffaloed
Jan 6, 2012
56,161
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Simcoe County
I don't get why people are scared that he will play well and possibly win a cup for another team. It's very likely Kadri never turns into the player he is today (who is better than the player who left Toronto) if he doesn't get the wake up call of being traded. Some players need a wake up call to spark a change in their trajectory. Marner could very likely react the same way but it doesn't mean he would ever have that wake up call if he continues to get coddled in Toronto.

It also doesn't mean the Leafs will get nothing out of a trade either, or a subpar return.
 

hamzarocks

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Jul 22, 2012
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Pickering, Ontario
Dallas was listed as one of the 4 potential Marner suitors by Pagnotta. Hardly a definitive list but the only thing we really have to go on right now. Since Dallas is out lets see the best Stars proposals. Below is mine:

To DAL: Marner (50% retention), Liljegren
To TOR: Stankoven, Jiricek
To CBJ: Bourque, Marner retention, 29OA
Seems really bad for CBJ

Bourque is a good prospect and has value. Jiricek though is looked by Jackeys as their #1D for the future and I doubt hes moved for Bourque + 29OA

If they got Stankoven + 29OA then maybe but we would then get Bourque + Jiricek which is lower value but more realistic
 

Americanadian

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Sep 11, 2016
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Seems really bad for CBJ

Bourque is a good prospect and has value. Jiricek though is looked by Jackeys as their #1D for the future and I doubt hes moved for Bourque + 29OA

If they got Stankoven + 29OA then maybe but we would then get Bourque + Jiricek which is lower value but more realistic
I agree. Jiricek was publicly pissed off because he was sent down this year. I had thought there was smoke about him potentially being moved but I can't find any trade speculation online right now. Bourque was the best C in the AHL this year and he's only 2 years older than Jiricek so I can see CBJ being interested but if they still value Jiricek as a 1D then it doesn't make sense.

I would still do the deal with Stankoven to CBJ and Bourque to TOR.
 
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Stephen

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Feb 28, 2002
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If he were a RD I'd bring him back in a nanosecond. Since he's not I'm hesitant. Not saying no, but unsure. We need guys like him.

If the Leafs go after David Perron, I could see a Berube, Perron, Edmundson formation as maybe a culture reset that starts dominating and policing the room. But that’s probably overstating it.
 
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Stephen

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Feb 28, 2002
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I agree. Jiricek was publicly pissed off because he was sent down this year. I had thought there was smoke about him potentially being moved but I can't find any trade speculation online right now. Bourque was the best C in the AHL this year and he's only 2 years older than Jiricek so I can see CBJ being interested but if they still value Jiricek as a 1D then it doesn't make sense.

I would still do the deal with Stankoven to CBJ and Bourque to TOR.

I’m not sure how to feel about a 19 year old getting pissed off about the development process.
 
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ULF_55

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And this is it, the exact issue with how management (Shanahan) has let the roster become stagnant and the culture status quo

The Kadri trade has given them PTSD on making another big move to the core. Now it seems like they're paralyzed with fear of losing the deal.

So they let Nylander ride it out to the point where they had to re-sign him or lose him for nothing. Now they're doing the same with Marner? FFS, this is why we're stuck mediocrity now.

Gutless.

I think they have to bite the bullet and sign one Top Free agent and fill in the rest with ELSC and scrap heap players.

Half their space for NameThatPlayer in $8mm.

A player who won't take a kowtow approach to the ex-coaches untouchables. One could dream that player might stand above the crowd.

This might help alleviate the 2025-2026 season when marner walks and Tavares re-signs a Malkin deal.

If they can land a Top Top 6 player this year, there would be less pressure next year.
 

jaric1862

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Jan 14, 2014
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Carolina seems like a prime candidate to trade for Liljergen. I’d be asking for their 2025 first (to be used at the deadline next year)
 

Jimmy Firecracker

They Fired Sheldon!
Mar 30, 2010
36,805
36,962
Mississauga
Will be real interesting to see what Tanev will be looking for in FA. At 34 the drop-off in play could happen quickly and significantly. But if he's cheap he would be a good second or third defence add after Roy, Skjei, or Montour.
 

Martin Skoula

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Oct 18, 2017
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""

On the latest edition of the 32 Thoughts: The Podcast, Sportsnet's Elliotte Friedman discussed the latest rumblings surrounding the status of Marner in Toronto after an image surfaced across the internet of newly appointed head coach Craig Berube seemingly photographed having coffee with the forward.


As Friedman notes, the goal is not to “pour gasoline on the fire”, but the most recent echoings may turn some heads.

“One of the things a few people have told me is not to be surprised if this plays out over next season with Marner in Toronto,” Friedman said.

“This is such a delicate conversation between player and team because everyone is determined to look like a winner here.”

In the case of the Leafs, the team is determined to make the right move rather than a headline. For instance, the purpose of trading Marner could come with salary cap relief and allow them further to attack a bigger fish via trade or free agency. As Friedman points out, if it comes down to it, they cannot risk a “swing and a miss with this one”.

On the side of Marner, he is searching for the best possible situation – one that will put him and his party in a good light. A pathway he could pursue is betting on himself and playing out the remainder of his contract. Though this could be a legitimate possibility and at the same time, a dicey one, he has to understand the additional pressure and backlash he may receive.

Marner
Though there is little to no clarity regarding the direction the situation is trending towards, Friedman identifies the status of this case as similar to the one of Nazem Kadri in 2019 – which the Leafs do not want to repeat.

“Kadri got suspended twice in a row, there were people at the time who felt very strongly at the time that they had to make that trade but he went somewhere else, sorted himself out, was a critical member of a Stanley Cup Champion, and is a player Toronto very much missed after he left,” Friedman stated.

“I think there are people in the organization who are looking at this and believe, could this be Kadri 2.0’? Where Marner goes somewhere else, the spotlight is less intense, he learns how to balance everything, and goes out and becomes a key player on a Stanley Cup Champion in another city.”

Not every part of the scenario is comparable, but as suggested, it seems to be something that has run through the club's mind. Regardless, if the two sides cannot reason with one another, a split between Marner and Toronto could happen. However, as of right now, Friedman is not convinced of a divorce.

“If the contract demands on both sides are crazy, it’s going to lead to an eventual divorce anyway. I know there are some people saying he’s one hundred percent getting traded, on Sunday, June 2, I don't know if I’m so certain of that.”


If Marner winning a cup somewhere else is even remotely a consideration in “looking like a winner” on a trade it’s already over before it began lol. The only question that matters is if Marner can be part of a cup team here, I don’t care if he wins 9/10 of the next cups on his new team as long as we’re the other cup winner in that stretch.
 
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Torontonian

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And this is it, the exact issue with how management (Shanahan) has let the roster become stagnant and the culture status quo

The Kadri trade has given them PTSD on making another big move to the core. Now it seems like they're paralyzed with fear of losing the deal.

So they let Nylander ride it out to the point where they had to re-sign him or lose him for nothing. Now they're doing the same with Marner? FFS, this is why we're stuck mediocrity now.

Gutless.
The Kadri trade giving them PTSD because this is the exact same situation, they soured on Kadri and said "we need to trade him cause we can't trust him" and then got bent over. This is what happens when your mindset is "player X needs to go no matter what". It's same the situation only going to look 10x worse cause Marner is a better player.

You're upset Toronto would rather keep a good player like Nylander instead of getting the deal they wanted. I don't think it's a awful mentality to think "We want a quality player back, or we are keeping our quality player, instead of 2 or 3 mediocre pieces"

It hasn't gone Toronto's way in the playoff but to call it "mediocrity" while making the playoffs 8 years in a row (tied with Boston as longest active streak in the NHL might I add and ahead of COL/CAR/TAMPA) is funny. I cant wait till the day till we really see mediocre hockey for 10 years again like prior to the Core4.
 
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