GDT: Trades & Free Agency -- Off-season edition

[Torontonian]

Agreed, and I think it's not unreasonable to think the same thing will happen with Marner.

Agreed, you don't trade good players for pennies on the dollar. Set your price, get what you want. If not, then you have a 100point player on your roster still.

I still think this year will be a status quo year. Run it back, extend your 100 point winger, reshape the team when you get 11m off the books.

Hell they might even resign JT July 1st if he says he doesn't want to play anywhere else and is willing to sign for very cheap. I am fine with JT playing 3c, but Toronto really needs to play hardball with that negotiation if they go down that route.

 

[supermann_98]

I don't know Tavares monetary situation... but he will have made over $100mil... adding to that, isn't likely to change his lifestyle in any way going forward.

Tavares already chose Toronto, over allegedly more money elsewhere.... allegedly $13.5 mil from San Jose, and "Connor McDavid" money to stay in NYI.... (12.5) So, yes, there is precedence for taking less money.

Why would Toronto tell their Captain, they don't want him back under ANY circumstances?

I mean, that would be absolutely foolish, unless he was an incredibly toxic person in the dressing room... which it seems clear he isn't.

Noting, his now wife, participated in his decision to come to Toronto... and now they are here with kids, close to family... He's from a tight family...

The idea that he'd accept a trade right now... It's just not reality...

Can this be pinned at the top somewhere so the posters including JT in trade proposals can just stop?

Soon as I see JT in a trade proposal I move on and don't give it even another second of my time

 

[ULF_55]

As much as JT loves Toronto or whatever, I think a lot of money potentially rides on the decision. Enough money that even someone as secure as Tavares has to consider it. He's still a $6-8M player and I could see a lot of teams willing to pay him that. I don't see him getting anything close to that in Toronto.

Is Tavares willing to take that big of a pay cut on his next contract? If Toronto tells him that they don't want him back under any circumstances, will he just retire?

marner - $12mm
Tavares - $6.91mm

I don't like either contract, but that's my guess.

I think here, on this site, there is a concentration of a few opinions that are unlikely shared amongst the millions of Leafs fans around the country, concentrated in Ontario.

My guess is most Leafs fans love marner, but most Leafs fans are not on this site.
marner and Tavares are not going to be chased out of Toronto by a loud, but fringe, group of fans. Nor will the media chase them away, knowing the hand that feeds them can find others more compliant mouths to feed. They'll be tough on air and then kowtow in person.

I really like trades, signings and changes, but I'm expecting mostly changes around the edges, along with on ice strategy changes as best can be done with players who have excelled personally.

They will make some changes, they have to as players are moving along as UFA, and perhaps retirement for a couple.

They are a goaltender, top defender, and depth forward away from making progress.

Thing is one defender could push everyone down, and let Rielly play to his strength, which isn't defending. Love to see a 1 and a 3 on defense.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

marner - $12mm
Tavares - $6.91mm

I don't like either contract, but that's my guess.

I think here, on this site, there is a concentration of a few opinions that are unlikely shared amongst the millions of Leafs fans around the country, concentrated in Ontario.

My guess is most Leafs fans love marner, but most Leafs fans are not on this site.
marner and Tavares are not going to be chased out of Toronto by a loud, but fringe, group of fans. Nor will the media chase them away, knowing the hand that feeds them can find others more compliant mouths to feed. They'll be tough on air and then kowtow in person.

I really like trades, signings and changes, but I'm expecting mostly changes around the edges, along with on ice strategy changes as best can be done with players who have excelled personally.

They will make some changes, they have to as players are moving along as UFA, and perhaps retirement for a couple.

They are a goaltender, top defender, and depth forward away from making progress.

Thing is one defender could push everyone down, and let Rielly play to his strength, which isn't defending. Love to see a 1 and a 3 on defense.

That's also about where I'm at in terms of a guess too.

That would be extraordinarily demoralizing, and would make me truly question why I bother.

 

[Fogelhund]

Just playing devil's advocate here: let's say they hypothetically retain Tavares on a cheaper contract afterwards and they re-sign Marner. Does that realistically free up anywhere near enough money to fix the other problems on this team? Does keeping the core entirely together after so many disappointments send the wrong message?

I'm trying to not be my normal obnoxious self here but I believe these are fair questions. I know where I stand on this issue but I'm just a guy behind a keyboard.

At some point, if this is a group that can't win... I don't think it's really the cap, as much as the players themselves. Shanahan alluded to players having not grown, in the manner that they had hoped, and expected, and that it has changed their viewpoints. It "seems" as though whomever these certain players are, that they need to be removed from the group, for the group to have a chance in the playoffs... addition by subtraction.

Now, we don't know who that player, or players are.... we've speculated, but it seems extremely unlikely that they've identified players, whom they just chose to sign to lucrative extensions.

You can't keep doing the same thing, and expecting different results... I mean, they've changed the coach... so maybe, maybe you could make an argument about keeping the core together and hoping the coach pulls something out of them... but then if they claim that changes are needed... well, change needs to happen.

We analyze at the end of every season. We look at our team, and we look forward. We look for ways to be better. We do that every year. In the past, I believe that there are times when you talk about patience. I still believe there are times when patience is the suitable call. However, when you see patterns persist, and the results don’t change, you have to adjust the way you think about things.

We will look at everything this summer. We will consider everything this summer.

 

[TMLAM34]

Simon Edvinsson
Nate Danielson
Robby Fabbri
1st 2024

I really like the idea of acquiring Edvinsson from Detroit. I mentioned Raymond along with Edvinsson and a 1st but the 1st might have been a little overkill.

 

[ToneDog]

Agreed, you don't trade good players for pennies on the dollar. Set your price, get what you want. If not, then you have a 100point player on your roster still.

I still think this year will be a status quo year. Run it back, extend your 100 point winger, reshape the team when you get 11m off the books.

Hell they might even resign JT July 1st if he says he doesn't want to play anywhere else and is willing to sign for very cheap. I am fine with JT playing 3c, but Toronto really needs to play hardball with that negotiation if they go down that route.

I don't think there are many people advocating trading Marner for pennies on the dollar. However they are willing to accept a nickel or dime less on the dollar. We want good players back.

No way they run it back. They'd look absolutely foolish and the media and fans would roast them. God help them if they are out in round #1 next year. They shouldn't show their faces at the end of season presser.

 

[Torontonian]

marner - $12mm
Tavares - $6.91mm

I don't like either contract, but that's my guess.

I think here, on this site, there is a concentration of a few opinions that are unlikely shared amongst the millions of Leafs fans around the country, concentrated in Ontario.

My guess is most Leafs fans love marner, but most Leafs fans are not on this site.
marner and Tavares are not going to be chased out of Toronto by a loud, but fringe, group of fans. Nor will the media chase them away, knowing the hand that feeds them can find others more compliant mouths to feed. They'll be tough on air and then kowtow in person.

I really like trades, signings and changes, but I'm expecting mostly changes around the edges, along with on ice strategy changes as best can be done with players who have excelled personally.

They will make some changes, they have to as players are moving along as UFA, and perhaps retirement for a couple.

They are a goaltender, top defender, and depth forward away from making progress.

Thing is one defender could push everyone down, and let Rielly play to his strength, which isn't defending. Love to see a 1 and a 3 on defense.

I don't think trading a top line right winger should be in Toronto future, like you said, Toronto is a good goaltender and another top 4 d-man and some better depth pieces away from being able to actually do some damage.

I do not think Toronto should be paying Tavares anywhere close to that number on his next contract, he should be their 3rd line center next year and you can't afford to pay a 3C 6.91M. It's also a fairly easy contract to negotiate, if he wants to stay and still be the captain of the Leafs, he has to take a lower cap hit or at age 33, he's forced to move his family away for a few years. It's a pretty easy negotiation Toronto needs to win

 

[conFABulator]

At some point, if this is a group that can't win... I don't think it's really the cap, as much as the players themselves. Shanahan alluded to players having not grown, in the manner that they had hoped, and expected, and that it has changed their viewpoints. It "seems" as though whomever these certain players are, that they need to be removed from the group, for the group to have a chance in the playoffs... addition by subtraction.

Now, we don't know who that player, or players are.... we've speculated, but it seems extremely unlikely that they've identified players, whom they just chose to sign to lucrative extensions.

You can't keep doing the same thing, and expecting different results... I mean, they've changed the coach... so maybe, maybe you could make an argument about keeping the core together and hoping the coach pulls something out of them... but then if they claim that changes are needed... well, change needs to happen.

We analyze at the end of every season. We look at our team, and we look forward. We look for ways to be better. We do that every year. In the past, I believe that there are times when you talk about patience. I still believe there are times when patience is the suitable call. However, when you see patterns persist, and the results don’t change, you have to adjust the way you think about things.

We will look at everything this summer. We will consider everything this summer.

This is why I think Marner has to go and Tavares has to not be a key part of our team and core. Trade Marner and resign/extend JT at a very, very deep hometown discount. I don't think we ask our captain to waive an NMC and I don't think he any real value unless we eat salary which sort of defeats the purpose in moving him.

I don't think JT is a problem in our program here, I think he is currently overpaid. I do think/suspect that Marner is a problem with the culture and he is about want a raise. Having two guys over $11M and better depth and balance has to be the way.

 

[Brobust]

Hey Johnny, we know you are our Captain, came here because you love the TML, passed up an 8th year with the Isles to come here and we know you are willing to take a huge paycut to remain a Leaf but we need you to waive your NMC so we can resign Mitch for $100m. Yeah the same Mitch that has shit the bed for the last 5 playoffs. We know you understand and will take one for the team. Afterall we have kids lining up to buy Marner jerseys.

Oh, I have to apologize for the JT trades. What was I thinking. Our captain who has led this team to jack shit in 6 years and left us with no memories and is 34 years old deserves all our loyalty. We must keep him at all costs.

 

[ToneDog]

Oh, I have to apologize for the JT trades. What was I thinking. Our captain who has led this team to jack shit in 6 years and left us with no memories and is 34 years old deserves all our loyalty. We must keep him at all costs.

Nobody is saying, keep him. They are saying they do not think Leafs will ask him to waive.

It is so, so much better to pay Mitch $100m for another 8 years of futility. Great plan.

 

[Torontonian]

I don't think there are many people advocating trading Marner for pennies on the dollar. However they are willing to accept a nickel or dime less on the dollar. We want good players back.

No way they run it back. They'd look absolutely foolish and the media and fans would roast them. God help them if they are out in round #1 next year. They shouldn't show their faces at the end of season presser.

Really? I've seen a fair bit of people on this website claim we should trade Marner for whatever because he's a cancer and we will have 11m in capspace to work with (cap is good, only if you can actually put it to good use).

No way they run it back? You seem to forget that the Leafs actually have 0 power on changing that, if the big boys want to come back and play together, guess what.. They are all coming back due to the NTC.

 

[Fogelhund]

Oh, I have to apologize for the JT trades. What was I thinking. Our captain who has led this team to jack shit in 6 years and left us with no memories and is 34 years old deserves all our loyalty. We must keep him at all costs.

It's a nice attempt to create a spin, but what you are suggesting is NOT what anyone has stated in this thread, or anywhere. It's just gaslighting.

 

[Brobust]

Yeah, it so much better to pay Mitch $100 for another 8 years of futility. Great plan.

Get rid of both. I don't care as long as the return for Marner is satisfactory.

The number 1 priority has to be to get rid of the most overpaid player on the team currently. That's Tavares.

It's a nice attempt to create a spin, but what you are suggesting is NOT what anyone has stated in this thread, or anywhere. It's just gaslighting.

Every argument I've heard on here has a bit about JT's loyalty to this team and symbolism of him coming here.

 

[ToneDog]

Really? I've seen a fair bit of people on this website claim we should trade Marner for whatever because he's a cancer and we will have 11m in capspace to work with (cap is good, only if you can actually put it to good use).

No way they run it back? You seem to forget that the Leafs actually have 0 power on changing that, if the big boys want to come back and play together, guess what.. They are all coming back due to the NTC.

Yeah those trades are not realistic. Based more on emotion. I doubt Tre trades him for a bag of pucks.

You are also not freeing up $11m in cap space either. $6-$8m is likely coming back. That is why I would take Raymond and a 1st. Yes it is Marner's call. I think he will make the right call once he realizes the money he wants is not in Toronto. We will see.

P.S. Like I agree with Mirtle who pretty much said it is not if they move off the core, it is when.

 

[Brobust]

Nobody is saying, keep him. They are saying they do not think Leafs will ask him to waive.

It is so, so much better to pay Mitch $100m for another 8 years of futility. Great plan.

Then the team is doomed to fail again.

 

[ToneDog]

Get rid of both. I don't care as long as the return for Marner is satisfactory.

The number 1 priority has to be to get rid of the most overpaid player on the team currently. That's Tavares.



Every argument I've heard on here has a bit about JT's loyalty to this team and symbolism of him coming here.

I'd say #2 priority but I do not think Leafs have any desire to dump him. I see more of a desire to break up the core and that means moving Marner. I could be wrong but the vibes are different this year than last.

Then the team is doomed to fail again.

I've written next year off already. I think they need to take a step back and re tool for the following year(s).

 

[TheGreenTBer]

This kind of content is why I came back to HF after so many years. Thanks.

At some point, if this is a group that can't win... I don't think it's really the cap, as much as the players themselves. Shanahan alluded to players having not grown, in the manner that they had hoped, and expected, and that it has changed their viewpoints. It "seems" as though whomever these certain players are, that they need to be removed from the group, for the group to have a chance in the playoffs... addition by subtraction.

Agreed.

Now, we don't know who that player, or players are.... we've speculated, but it seems extremely unlikely that they've identified players, whom they just chose to sign to lucrative extensions.

I would agree, unless their conclusions about the lack of growth for said player weren't made until after those extensions were signed. But I don't think that's the case.

You can't keep doing the same thing, and expecting different results... I mean, they've changed the coach... so maybe, maybe you could make an argument about keeping the core together and hoping the coach pulls something out of them... but then if they claim that changes are needed... well, change needs to happen.

I would agree if it were their 2nd coach but this is their 3rd coach now and the 1st coach, for all of his faults, tried to warn us about some of this stuff which in my opinion has manifested in the way he expected.

We analyze at the end of every season. We look at our team, and we look forward. We look for ways to be better. We do that every year. In the past, I believe that there are times when you talk about patience. I still believe there are times when patience is the suitable call. However, when you see patterns persist, and the results don’t change, you have to adjust the way you think about things.

We will look at everything this summer. We will consider everything this summer.

Those words are great. Let's see if they put their money and muscle where their mouth is.

We will just have to wait and see.

I've written next year off already. I think they need to take a step back and re tool for the following year(s).

I entirely agree, but I highly doubt they're going to do that.

 

[rumman]

You can’t lose a Marner trade when you can’t win by keeping him.

winner winner chicken dinner.......addition by subtraction is a real thing folks...........

 

[rumman]

That's also about where I'm at in terms of a guess too.

That would be extraordinarily demoralizing, and would make me truly question why I bother.

if they want to win, they need to avoid overpaying under performers, these estimates are ridiculous JT isn't worth 5mil, and Marner's not worth 8mil...............

 

[Fogelhund]

Oh, I have to apologize for the JT trades. What was I thinking. Our captain who has led this team to jack shit in 6 years and left us with no memories and is 34 years old deserves all our loyalty. We must keep him at all costs.

Every argument I've heard on here has a bit about JT's loyalty to this team and symbolism of him coming here.

Weird formatting aside..... One of these things, is not like the other.... Just more spin?

 

[Americanadian]

David Perron LW 6' 200 lbs
20 g 50 pt ave regular season
His last 3 playoffs 22 goals
Played fir Berube
Has some jam to his game
4.5 mil

From talking to wings fans it sounds like he’s a net negative at ES. Basically like Tavares with 80% of the offense at his peak, but 2 years older than he is now.

 

[nuck]

Really? I've seen a fair bit of people on this website claim we should trade Marner for whatever because he's a cancer and we will have 11m in capspace to work with (cap is good, only if you can actually put it to good use).

No way they run it back? You seem to forget that the Leafs actually have 0 power on changing that, if the big boys want to come back and play together, guess what.. They are all coming back due to the NTC.

But he isn't resigning for $11 unfortunately. Leaf tax right? $11-12M is Tanev + Roy or Walker with cash to spare to help resign Bert. Mitch isn't the cancer, his next contract is. Maybe a cost controlled D comes back, or a physical center. If he stays that's Mitch and Willie forever, its not something they can pivot on mid deal. Cap space isn't just for FAs it means no more picks for retention so the club can stop mortgaging its future to try to compete.

If there is a chance Mitch agrees to a trade its this summer after yet another fail and management refusing to put it all on the coach who they fired anyways. If they can offer him the right landing spot its a possibility for sure. If they can't they can't but people assuming that as soon as JT is gone there is no cap concerns aren't being very realistic. Even when JT is gone, nobody is winning with $35M on three forwards because that's money that should be paying for a balanced lineup. A better goalie or a legit #1D like every other club tries to do.

I am not arguing that losing Mitch makes them immediately better, but I believe losing his next deal will allow them to better compete over the next 8 years. I would have been happy to lose Willie last summer but with the new deal they are married to him.

 

[rumman]

From talking to wings fans it sounds like he’s a net negative at ES. Basically like Tavares with 80% of the offense at his peak, but 2 years older than he is now.

how about finding a young player with the same game, I'm tired of worn out retreads occupying cap space, they're all over valued and under performing..........

 

[Brobust]

I'd say #2 priority but I do not think Leafs have any desire to dump him. I see more of a desire to break up the core and that means moving Marner. I could be wrong but the vibes are different this year than last.


I've written next year off already. I think they need to take a step back and re tool for the following year(s).

JT's a part of the core. He is the supposed leader and veteran presence who was supposed to guide the core.

Why is it so wrong and unthinkable to expect and want the team to hold him accountable? And if they don't, then isn't it emblematic of this team's extremely flawed and frankly pathetic approach to running a team?