Trades and UFA’s - Trade Deadline Edition

[ULF_55]

Meandering complaining.

...

The players are the guys on the ice.... scoring when they need to, supporting each other when they need to... and winners win, and losers don't.... At some point, our losses aren't because Reaves was a bad signing... Our playoff losses aren't because Holl and Kerfoot weren't good enough.... It's the same every single game, every single season, and every single playoffs... we lost, because the core wasn't good enough, or didn't show up that day. I think I'd keep Nylander, but Matthews and Marner... I don't think we win with them... Your leaders and best players set the tone... what tone exactly are they setting?

Leafs don't need a Gretzky they need a Messier.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I think the reason is obvious as to why Dubas left when Shanny wouldn't give him the autonomy he asked for in roster decision.

Says a lot, really.

I think @Fogelhund hammered the nail on the head though about it, really well summarized IMO. The only thing he didn't mention is bringing in Tavares as well to solidify the 1-2 centre punch. And while JT, production wise, has been quite strong (not $11 mill AAV strong) but he has remained highly productive, his leadership as captain has been forgettable.

I think Dubas had autonomy, I don't think he could trade Matthews without a phone call but I think generally he could do what he wanted.

We're seeing how he's done in Pittsburgh...not so great, that Jarry contract was rotten as soon as someone printed it.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The players are the guys on the ice.... scoring when they need to, supporting each other when they need to... and winners win, and losers don't.... At some point, our losses aren't because Reaves was a bad signing... Our playoff losses aren't because Holl and Kerfoot weren't good enough.... It's the same every single game, every single season, and every single playoffs... we lost, because the core wasn't good enough, or didn't show up that day. I think I'd keep Nylander, but Matthews and Marner... I don't think we win with them... Your leaders and best players set the tone... what tone exactly are they setting?

And Matthews has a contract with a full NMC and now Marner's MNC has kicked in as well. We're basically f***ed for the foreseeable future, simple as that.

 

[4thline]

I came in to post a lot of what @Fogelhund said in the top of the complaint. No plan for a deployable F group making it very hard to ice a 4 line team that makes sense.

Reaves-Domi- Out
Lafferty-Acciari-Back

More snot. Harder to play against. Have a clear role. 1.1m in savings.

Bertuzzi-Matthews-Nylander
Knies-Tavares-Marner
Lafferty-Kampf-Acciari
Camp Battle-Holmberg-Jarncrok

An identity/role for each line with players that contribute to that role. Two lines of overpowering offense. A excellent defensive/shutdown/forecheck line. A vanilla 3B line that's safe enough defensively to bring in young players, while giving them enough talent to succeed. If you want to balance the snot swap acciari and Jarncrok

 

[Phion Keneuf]

Kent Johnson would be an interesting target. Toss Peeke in there too and that’s a nice package.

 

[Rare Jewel]

This past summer really seems like a missed opportunity to remedy a lot of what has ailed this team for the last few years,

Instead, it seems like a half-assed continuation with a few more "brawny" type players, one of which can't take a regular shift.

 

[rumman]

I’d like a rugged team, who can play hockey.

But we don’t have a rugged team, and there is no place for a guy who can’t play hockey. If we are going to be skilled and soft, might as well be that top to bottom.

Be something.. this is just a cobbled mess right now.

Get bottom six players like Adam Lowry who can effectively play 3/4 line minutes, and if needed can hold his own with the best of them. Oh wait, that’s doesn’t work when half your cap goes to 4 forwards…….

I’d definitely keep Bertuzzi, yes he’s off to a slow start but he’s too good to be this bad for very long. I’m sure he’ll turn it around.

Domi on the other hand has been completely useless.

Domi and Kampf combined make 5.4 million. Robertson or McMann would easily replace what Domi has brought to this point leaving around 4.5 million to spend on a third line center and we’d instantly be better IMO.

You’d think both Bertuzzi and Domi would be trying to get paid for their next contract, perhaps 88 can show them how it’s done…….

With Liljegren getting injured and most likely missing significant amount of time, I think it’s definitely time to call Columbus and make a deal for Peeke.

Calgary for Zardov too……..

 

[rumman]

And Matthews has a contract with a full NMC and now Marner's MNC has kicked in as well. We're basically f***ed for the foreseeable future, simple as that.

You got to consider letting 16 walk if you want to resign 88. It’s one or the other unless you want to burn another year waiting for JT’s deal to expire……..

 

[LeafParade]

I am not that concerned about Domi and Bertuzzi because they at least expire. I am rather annoyed about giving Reaves multiple years which was not necessary.

Kampf could also be an issue if they cannot figure out how to use him properly again when he is making 2.4 M.

All this complaining about the big 4 and their contracts, but when you misuse over 10 million in these pieces who basically perform no better than spare parts or Marlies, you have a problem.

 

[horner]

Why does Arizona do that trade though?

Because they have been dumb before
Bunting
Timmins

 

[Aloysius]

Hey, Kessel is available for free. Wonder if he can be brought in for toughness. We know how he handled Scott, which is more than we see with the present stars.

 

[RunItBackAgain]

Hey, Kessel is available for free. Wonder if he can be brought in for toughness. We know how he handled Scott, which is more than we see with the present stars.

It’s funny and ironic but Kessel had more balls than all 4 of our core combined.

 

[TMLAM34]

Hey, Kessel is available for free. Wonder if he can be brought in for toughness. We know how he handled Scott, which is more than we see with the present stars.

Very sad but true… Lmao

 

[DougGilmour93]

It’s funny and ironic but Kessel had more balls than all 4 of our core combined.

I see what you did there…

 

[Mad hatter]

I understand that Domi hasn’t been that good yet but he is stuck with kampf as a centre. We need a 3rd line centre or a winger to play with Domi at centre. He’s a pass first player and not many options to pass too.

Matthews and marner need a fast puck retriever, hard for checker on that line. I like Knies with Matthews but Domi with Knies and Jarnkok might be a decent 3rd line. No idea who could play on Matthews line but Gregor is fast and seems to be hard on the puck, maybe him, I don’t know. Jarnkok doesn’t fit there imho

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

There is no plan here.... none... Ok, Acciari and Schenn got overpaid... but they were two guys, we probably should have tried to sign before UFA... tried to get back... they had some identity, and made the team better. It just felt like we didn't even try to bring them back.

Desperately wanted these two back. Couldn't care less if they were overpaid given how the Leafs decided to spend the money.

Frankly, Leafs would've been better off mostly running it back with the TDL acquisitions of last season, save O'Reilly who didn't want to return but include Gustafsson and Lafferty. If we assume the contracts Acciari, Schenn, and Gustafsson got would all be the same here as they are elsewhere, Leafs could've still gotten Bertuzzi on the one year tryout and gotten Reaves and still had millions to spare for extra roster spots (like for Timmins) and the bottom six would actually have an identity instead of the mess it is now.

Yes the bottom 6 would still be hard pressed to score but f*** at least you know what you're getting there, a shutdown line and an energy line. Klingberg hasn't shown to be $3+ million better than what Gustafsson or an up and coming Timmins could bring. Plus we'd have that built in camaraderie that is so glaringly missing from the supporting cast on this team, bringing back guys who helped the Leafs finally get over the first round hump and they fought in the trenches against Tampa to do it.

Oh well, if ifs and buts and all that.

 

[Folignos Helmet]

Morning workout throw away idea.
Marner and Klingberg to San Jose for Hertl, Kunin and Rutta.

Hertl is a bigger centre and 4 to 5 million less a year then Marners next deal and he’s locked in. Has a little more jam then the rest of our core.
Rutta can slide beside Rielly like he did in Tampa with Hedman or go bottom pair.
Kunin is a flex centre winger with more jam then our forwards and all three kill penalties.

Mitch can play the surfer dude role in SJ bunk with Marleau and cash in for the max on an extension since they have no one else to pay. the sharks can flip Klingberg for more at deadline after he scoops pp points all year.

 

[Fogelhund]

More random thoughts, or maybe a question. Does this group of players just not like each other, hence why they don’t stand up for each other, or just soft p***yes? Hmmm

 

[ACC1224]

Morning workout throw away idea.
Marner and Klingberg to San Jose for Hertl, Kunin and Rutta.

Hertl is a bigger centre and 4 to 5 million less a year then Marners next deal and he’s locked in. Has a little more jam then the rest of our core.
Rutta can slide beside Rielly like he did in Tampa with Hedman or go bottom pair.
Kunin is a flex centre winger with more jam then our forwards and all three kill penalties.

Mitch can play the surfer dude role in SJ bunk with Marleau and cash in for the max on an extension since they have no one else to pay. the sharks can flip Klingberg for more at deadline after he scoops pp points all year.

Marner = NMC.
Best to throw this one away.

 

[shortfuze]

Meandering complaining.

Say what you want about Dubas, but he went out and found pieces that fit together. He found guys who could work with Kampf, and maximize what that line could do. He found Hyman and Bunting, who worked with, and helped make Marner and Matthews better. He found Brodie, and Muzzin, brought in Schenn... all good pieces, that helped us play together better. Most often, the pieces he added, fit with what he had, and worked.

I'm not saying he was great, or perfect, clearly we didn't achieve the goals we set out to, and gave away a lot of picks and futures.. particularly for failing to achieve the goals.... But, the parts he had, he founds ways to bring in new parts that helped. Sure, plenty of flaws too, and goals not achieved... There was a plan.

But this guy, he's just assembled people. He paid Kampf probably too much, and then gave the team players that don't particularly work with Kampf... I mean... if you are going to pay a 3rd/4th line C like that, at least find some complimentary pieces, that maximize your investment....

Reaves... ah... F it... that's been done to death... we all know.

There is no plan here.... none... Ok, Acciari and Schenn got overpaid... but they were two guys, we probably should have tried to sign before UFA... tried to get back... they had some identity, and made the team better. It just felt like we didn't even try to bring them back.

I honestly have no idea what this guy is doing... and I look at Calgary, and the mess they are in... and that's his mess too.

Ultimately it speaks to Shanahan.... and it also speaks to our core. There is just a lack of fight here... I don't mean just "fighting"... but these guys... they don't show up when they are needed the most, they don't support each other, no pushback, no fight to win... whatever the costs are. For a time... you go, well, they are young it's taken others years to learn, but I don't see any learning either...

We can criticize Dubas, Keefe and Treliving and Shanahan... and there are good reasons for each of them to be criticized.. but at the end of the day, you play the cards you are dealt with, and try to make the best of it. If your cards are guys who just don't have the full winning mentality, then you aren't going to win... and that's just kind of that. It doesn't matter who you surround them with, which coach, which GM, which supporting players... and it isn't even about the contracts either.. give them slightly better supporting cast, and they still are the guys who aren't there when it counts, in any way, shape or form.

The players are the guys on the ice.... scoring when they need to, supporting each other when they need to... and winners win, and losers don't.... At some point, our losses aren't because Reaves was a bad signing... Our playoff losses aren't because Holl and Kerfoot weren't good enough.... It's the same every single game, every single season, and every single playoffs... we lost, because the core wasn't good enough, or didn't show up that day. I think I'd keep Nylander, but Matthews and Marner... I don't think we win with them... Your leaders and best players set the tone... what tone exactly are they setting?

Well I guess it’s a good thing Dubas got 10 years and treliving gets 10 games. The players haven’t found their groove. Have some patience.

 

[shortfuze]

And Matthews has a contract with a full NMC and now Marner's MNC has kicked in as well. We're basically f***ed for the foreseeable future, simple as that.

Why are they f***ed? They still have matthews and Marner.

 

[ACC1224]

Why are they f***ed? They still have matthews and Marner.

Some have difficulty recognizing good players.

 

[horner]

More random thoughts, or maybe a question. Does this group of players just not like each other, hence why they don’t stand up for each other, or just soft p***yes? Hmmm

They have never stood up for each other

Morning workout throw away idea.
Marner and Klingberg to San Jose for Hertl, Kunin and Rutta.

Hertl is a bigger centre and 4 to 5 million less a year then Marners next deal and he’s locked in. Has a little more jam then the rest of our core.
Rutta can slide beside Rielly like he did in Tampa with Hedman or go bottom pair.
Kunin is a flex centre winger with more jam then our forwards and all three kill penalties.

Mitch can play the surfer dude role in SJ bunk with Marleau and cash in for the max on an extension since they have no one else to pay. the sharks can flip Klingberg for more at deadline after he scoops pp points all year.

Marner won't go to a rebuilding team

 

[Dragao6]

I just want mcdavid
Watch him every night
We’re not winning the cup with these guys
Start controlling the cap and sign or not sign, trade who u have to

Us getting McDavid as ufa Will be my Stanley cup
So I’m rooting for Edmonton to keep being Edmonton and please don’t screw up our cap situation so much that we won’t have a chance

If marner is even asking for a raise let alone accepting a cut then trade/let him go

At this point nylander looks like way more a player then marner does

 

[hamzarocks]

Kent Johnson would be an interesting target. Toss Peeke in there too and that’s a nice package.

Is marner going back?

Kent Johnson is a core piece on an ELC for CBJ